Also, you guys are talking about MMA as if it is the epitome of fighting. MMA does not have a good track record of good technical striking. Only in this sport can someone come in with 9 months of training and make the top 10 list. So cut the crap about Bruce Lee and MMA fighters.
Bruce Lee on the Heavy Bag
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+ you seldom see other top level athletes completely gassing out prematurely like in certain MMA fights. It suffers from being a cross between spectacle and sport...
Discipulus
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Ray Mercer said that his MMA training was harder than anything he'd ever done in boxing. I don't think guys gas in MMA because they're out of shape. At least not all the time (because that happens in boxing, too). I think it's because they focus more on strength than boxers do, since it's needed more in MMA. Also, grappling really takes it out of you. Everyone knows clinching is harder than sparring, even when you're going light. That constant exertion really takes it out of you.
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Given that line of reasoning, olympic judo or wrestling competitors should hardly be able to finish a fight, yet you never see anything remotely like Carwin in the 2 round against Lesnar there. And you wouldn't see Cain do that. So of course it is a matter of both tactical use of energy and cardio.
Discipulus
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Except not every fighter is an Olympic judoka or wrestler. And there is no other sport quite like MMA. You don't get punched in wrestling. You aren't ground to bits over the course of several rounds in judo. You don't get thrown in boxing. You don't get submitted in Muay Thai.
MMA fighters gassing has nothing to do with the ratio of spectacle to sport. Boxing is as much a spectacle as a sport, and they don't gas as often (though heavyweights gas all the time--how many big fighters have a reputation for fading in the later rounds?) Fighters gas because it's a hard sport to prepare for. You need strength, you need cardio, and you need a whole lot of technical training. There either isn't enough time to train it all adequately before the next fight, or the fight itself--grappling, striking, and nerves combined--makes it a more exhausting experience than many are able to prepare for.
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Wrestling got 3 rounds of 2 minutes.
And heavy wrestlers gas all the time.
About Bruce lee, he had some nice ideas but see, he never fought anyone. Yeah, there was no mma, but guys like Helio Gracie, much older than him fought the best at his time.
Gracie fought Kimura a top level judoka in well recorded matches. Why didn't bruce lee go and fight a gracie, a judoka, a wrestler or a boxer?
His record is full of shady fights like supposed english boxing champion Gary Elms, yet there is no record of this "champion" in any boxing site, no videos, no pictures, nothing.
Hollywood made us believe in Bruce Lee with cool movies and the mystique of asians being very good at martial arts and being able to kick everybody ass.
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Wrestling matches are much shorter than mma fights,and people gas all the time in them.
Three, 5-minute periods would be crazy hard to wrestle for that long.
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Bernard Hopkins respects Bruce Lee, i remember in a video he actually tells Rashad to stand like Bruce Lee.
"Bruce Lee was good at it, thats real stuff" Bernard Hopkins
"Bruce Lee was good at it, thats real stuff" Bernard Hopkins
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As a kid I took taekwondo and neighborhood kids jumped me one day. Whilst being held up against a brick wall they told me to use my taekwondo to defend myself, and then it hit me.....I cant, they're too close for any moves I had been taught.
Then I was reading some of Bruce's writings and I remember very clearly what he said regarding fancy kicks, he said they're bullshit, and that real fighting kicks should be BELOW the waist, never above it...that's theater shit. Bruce Lee himself said that, even though it went against his bread and butter of acting.
He may not of been a pro fighter, but I'll be god damned if the man was a fraud.
Respect to Bruce Lee !
Then I was reading some of Bruce's writings and I remember very clearly what he said regarding fancy kicks, he said they're bullshit, and that real fighting kicks should be BELOW the waist, never above it...that's theater shit. Bruce Lee himself said that, even though it went against his bread and butter of acting.
He may not of been a pro fighter, but I'll be god damned if the man was a fraud.
Respect to Bruce Lee !
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The "one inch punch" that Bruce demonstrated and that got caught on film is a great party trick. You can learn how to do it in a minute. You do generate more power when turning the hips and torso rapidly (DUH!) but the way Lee did it then was all about pushing and looking cool.
Not true. You aren't learning it in a minute. It is about off-balancing, not power. It is foolish to think one can generate more power there than from a traditional hook. Laws of physics, and all.
The Gracies started UFC in the 90s to showcase their art.
My understanding is that Lee was into combat arts not combat sports, and he probably would have discouraged MMA.
That is probably because grappling is the core skill set fighters require. MMA is still developing, the grappling is more developed then the rest of it.
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not true... bruce lee would have loved mma
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You're understanding is incorrect. Bruce had a deep love for both Boxing and kickboxing as Sports, conversed with and trained with participants of each, as well as attended many combat sport events that took place in his day.
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I'm aware of what he did as a kid in Hong Kong, there's making appearances in films, then there's being a working actor. I don't consider being a baby carried onto a stage an acting job, nor other things like that. Many such bit appearances are what made up those 20 film credits. But that's hardly the craft of acting. Though he did have some minor speaking roles as a young child and in adolescence, I've actually seen clips of the films.
And being as the training his Father gave him in Tai Chi was meant to give him more discipline and allow him to better protect himself, of course I consider it. You may not think much of Tai Chi, hence downplaying it here, however, it was taught to him for all the reasons a kid is put into Martial Arts, and for a practical purpose.
But if it makes you feel any better, how about we agree that BOTH acting and Martial Arts had heavy influences on him as a youth, both were aspects of his Father's existence, and both became central focuses of who he was as an adult. Thus, it's unfair for people say something such as "he was an actor who liked Martial Arts, not a Martial Artist"...which was what I was getting at anyway. I'd be hard-pressed to simply agree that his life was dominated solely by the movie world sans martial arts, considering that every movie or TV series he had any input in contained martial arts as a communication vessel.
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I believe that is the over-sized punching bag that Bob Wall bought Bruce Lee as a joke.
Bob Wall Interview | cityonfire.com | Asian Film Reviews | Movie News
Bob Wall: And so I went as a joke, made him a 300 pound bag. I don
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I could teach you to do it in a minute.
There's a difference between a real "power punch" and what Lee did in his demo. What he did was just for show, like Karate guys breaking boards.
judokaboxer
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even i cant fight bruce lee, most of us the people who write in this forum who criticize his bag work. if bruce were alive today he would probably kick my ass.. people are just good at talking but in a real fight I bet no one here can take on bruce.
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None of those 20 + movies in HK in the 50's were Martial Arts movies. And he actually appeared in an episode of "Here Come the Brides" (1969) without any reference to Martial Arts whatsoever. My point is simply that acting was a huge facet of Bruce's short life, and it was another way for him to express himself creatively.
That said, people who claim he was merely an actor who learned some Martial Arts have basically no idea what they are talking about. So I think we agree, I just wanted to get the facts straight
