Bruce Lee on the Heavy Bag

[Sinister]

You don't think parries and catches are applicable with small gloves/bare fists? Covering up or keeping a tight guard, no. But I would think active defense with the hands still works.

They shouldn't be primary defense.

 

[Bay Area]

Bruce Lee > TS

 

[Discipulus]

They shouldn't be primary defense.

You recommend head movement and footwork as the primary line of defense, then?

 

[Sinister]

You recommend head movement and footwork as the primary line of defense, then?

Not so much head movement as upper-body positioning. There's also elevation changes.

 

[Discipulus]

Not so much head movement as upper-body positioning. There's also elevation changes.

So, like in the boxing stance thread over there, just being harder to hit in general. Gotcha. I still like to use my hands a lot to defend, but I like to keep them outstretched. I know there's an inherent risk of making yourself open to punches, but when the clinch is involved, using the hands to parry and then grab onto your opponent is a pretty viable technique. Someone earlier talked about the Jack Dempsey clinch, and I realized that he used his hands in the same manner a lot of Thai fighters do--double bicep block with the gloves. Totally viable defense with the smaller gloves--just take away their weapons.

 

[Sinister]

Right, I'm just distinguishing that guys like that were looking to HIT you, and be in advantageous positions after the blow landed. Blocking and such was a bit of an afterthought, or a small step in a means to achieve a bigger goal. Whereas now, "hands up" is held as a maxim of defense, which is incorrect.

 

[Laban]

I also didn't realize that Lee never fought competitively, and most of his "fights" were against untrained street fighters in Hong Kong. He never fought against trained professionals, likely because he was protecting an image.

He did win a boxing tournament in HK when he was young.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Some photos of bruce from that Hk tournament

 

[pheonix5]

I don't see how you can base Bruce's entire boxing ability on this one video.Bruce knew boxing very well.Just look at the Tao of Jeet Kune Do.Also he studied the some of the best boxers of his time.He used to watch Ali fights in the mirror to study his footwork to see how it could be applied to his southpaw stance.If there was any weakness to Bruce's game it would have been his grappling,but then he studied with Gene Lebell.Also at one time he said he would take a fighter with 6 months of boxing and wrestling training over any so called traditional martial arts master any day.Alot of people don't realize that he scrapped most of the wing chun later on except the trapping and straight blast.Was he the best fighter in the world?In my opinion,No.But his ideas and what is functional for real fighting was nothing short of genius.He knew the importance of being well trained in the four ranges of combat not just one or twf all the guys from his time I would have to say Gene Lebell was probably one of the baddest men on the planet.A good boxer and submission wrestler.

 

[lesterdiamond]

.

Iron Mike Tyson heavy bag - YouTube

 

[Jukai]

Iron Mike Tyson heavy bag - YouTube

Embedding that for you since it's so great and really hurts TS' theory.

 

[RockyBullwinkle]

I am a Lee fan but I think people are too quick to exaggerate the impact he or any one person has had. The light bulb would still be here without Edison, Patton didn't win the War, and MLK didn't single handedly introduce civil rights. Lee didn't invent anything new, be he did popularized all sorts of martial arts across the world. To me he's kind of an Ali, Dempsey, Jordan figure. Their sports would still be here without them, but they brought them to new heights.
As for those who beat Lee to the punch, I thought this was an interesting article detailing some of his predecessors.
The Forgotten Golden Age of Mixed Martial Arts - Part III: Sherlock Holmes, Les Apaches, and the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence - Bloody Elbow

 

[pheonix5]

I am a Lee fan but I think people are too quick to exaggerate the impact he or any one person has had. The light bulb would still be here without Edison, Patton didn't win the War, and MLK didn't single handedly introduce civil rights. Lee didn't invent anything new, be he did popularized all sorts of martial arts across the world. To me he's kind of an Ali, Dempsey, Jordan figure. Their sports would still be here without them, but they brought them to new heights.
As for those who beat Lee to the punch, I thought this was an interesting article detailing some of his predecessors.
The Forgotten Golden Age of Mixed Martial Arts - Part III: Sherlock Holmes, Les Apaches, and the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence - Bloody Elbow

Good read.Bruce also had cinema to express his ideas to the mass.Bruce always maintained that he was a martial artist first and an actor second and that he used the cinema as a format to express his ideas and philosophy.

 

[Graceland]

I'm not sure I can call small bit parts in commercials or minor films an acting career. However Wing Chun wasn't his first Martial Arts training.

Uhmm, he did 20 films in HK up until leaving for the US in 1958, then a 6 year break until doing his first screen test in the US in 64. It's safe to say his short life was dominated by the movie world. No Wing Chun wasn't his first Martial Arts training, Tai Chi was, but you'd be stretching your argument a bit to call him a martial artist for practicing tai chi. He only had five years of training before moving to the US.

 

[Graceland]

Good read.Bruce also had cinema to express his ideas to the mass.Bruce always maintained that he was a martial artist first and an actor second and that he used the cinema as a format to express his ideas and philosophy.

I know he said that, and that was accurate while he was in the US and worked with Stirling Silliphant and James Coburn on the Silent Flute script and with the former on the Longstreet series. In fact, one of the reasons why his HK films became so succesfull is that he realized that effective self defense moves were not necessarily great movie stuff. Also, there's not much of his JKD philosophy to draw from his first three HK films, even though he even wrote the screenplay for Way of the Dragon. He managed to incorporate quite a bit into the Blood and Steel script which became Enter the Dragon though, and of course Game of Death which he didn't get to finish... But while in HK his life style was not particularly healthy, and his Martial Arts skills deteriorated.

 

[dat1978]

You bring up some good points.

I'm not "writing off" Bruce's abilities because of one seventeen second clip. I'm writing off the notion that he would smoke any fighter alive because there is zero evidence of him destroying anyone of any caliber.

It doesn't do Lee any good for his ravenous fans to keep insisting that he was the baddest fighter to walk the earth when he never did anything to prove that.

I appreciate him for his MA philosophy and certainly don't discount his contributions to MA.

problem is you started this thread discounting Bruce Lee when its not bruce lee, but clearly some of his fans that you have a problem with. i'm a Lee fan for sure. have been since i was a kid (i'm 34 now). in fact, i study his martial art and philosophy. however, even i'm not dumb enough to think that bruce could beat ANY man on the planet. no such person exists. there is always someone that can beat you for one reason or another. more skilled, bigger, faster, whatever. the fans that say such things are no different than fans of fedor or tyson. it was said in the past that they couldn't be beaten either, but that proved untrue. overzealous fans say crazy things about anybody that they worship.

for anyone that said that bruce was just a famous actor that JUST HAPPENED to be into martial arts please STFU.

 

[wowspare]

It seems like you guys watch a couple of youtube videos on muay thai and now you can start criticizing everyone's fighting style.

Bruce Lee didn't have youtube. There wasn't much cross training in his days. He did everything from scratch. MMA didn't even exist back then. What did you want him to do? Join a Karate tournament? You guys would just shit all over karate for not looking like Muay Thai either.

The 1-inch punch was a demonstration of body rotation. It's to show that power punches come from core rotation and not the arms. There's a video out there of him explaining the point of the 1-inch point. It's not an actual move like "jab, 1-inch punch, hook".

/thread

 

[barnowl]

Right, I'm just distinguishing that guys like that were looking to HIT you, and be in advantageous positions after the blow landed. Blocking and such was a bit of an afterthought, or a small step in a means to achieve a bigger goal. Whereas now, "hands up" is held as a maxim of defense, which is incorrect.

"Defense by Position" vs "Defense by Action" for something so easy, it is probably the hardest thing to teach someone.

 

[00 Buck]

Not so much head movement as upper-body positioning. There's also elevation changes.

Please elaborate for those of us who are interested please. Maybe an old link you know?

 

[Sinister]

"Defense by Position" vs "Defense by Action" for something so easy, it is probably the hardest thing to teach someone.

It is, but it's the real craft of Boxing. As opposed to: "Hands up! Punch more!"