Bruce Lee on the Heavy Bag

[weich]

Bruce was a big fan of all of dempseys stuff and the other old timey boxers.

The responses to this video will be interesting

This small clip, IMO, doesn't look great. If that was the only proof of his abilities I wouldn't think much of Jack Dempsey either. Fortunately Jack Dempsey fought in the ring and had a long and excellent career. I don't have any doubts that he was an excellent boxer, especially for his era.

Lee, on the other hand, never fought against professionals. The people he beat up were either street fighters or people that ony he and his friends watched fight. That is not very credible.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

This small clip, IMO, doesn't look great. If that was the only proof of his abilities I wouldn't think much of Jack Dempsey either. Fortunately Jack Dempsey fought in the ring and had a long and excellent career. I don't have any doubts that he was an excellent boxer, especially for his era.

Lee, on the other hand, never fought against professionals. The people he beat up were either street fighters or people that ony he and his friends watched fight. That is not very credible.

well of course the logical thing to do is not jump the gun either way on how good or not Bruce was. We wont ever know

 

[weich]

well of course the logical thing to do is not jump the gun either way on how good or not Bruce was. We wont ever know

I disagree.

Jack Dempsey proved to the world that he was a world class fighter. Still regarded as one of the best boxers to ever live(he also trained wrestling and judo or jiu jitsu).

Bruce Lee's fans declare him to be the best fighter ever despite the fact that Lee never fought professionally, and there is no evidence to support any of those claims.

 

[quatin]

I disagree.

Jack Dempsey proved to the world that he was a world class fighter. Still regarded as one of the best boxers to ever live(he also trained wrestling and judo or jiu jitsu).

Bruce Lee's fans declare him to be the best fighter ever despite the fact that Lee never fought professionally, and there is no evidence to support any of those claims.

Fight professionally. Where do you expect Bruce to be fighting professionally in the 60s?

 

[Frode Falch]

Fight professionally. Where do you expect Bruce to be fighting professionally in the 60s?

Well.. he was in Thailand a few time.. Why not try it there. I am no anderson silva. But i did not mind getting into the ring to test myself.

Also they had boxing gyms in usa.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

I disagree.

Jack Dempsey proved to the world that he was a world class fighter. Still regarded as one of the best boxers to ever live(he also trained wrestling and judo or jiu jitsu).

I was talking only about bruce in my previous post.

Bruce Lee's fans declare him to be the best fighter ever despite the fact that Lee never fought professionally, and there is no evidence to support any of those claims.

Not all of his fans hold that belief but in regards to the ones who do its not surprising. There is a cult around many dead martial artists of various styles and with this comes larger than life exploits that lack any evidence. In other words they become more of a fraud NOW that they are dead then they were when they are alive.

As i said before the fact still remains Bruce was ahead of his time in regards to his philosophy,he coached a few acclaimed martial artists who fought and won titles which then in turn lends credence to him having some degree of fighting knowledge.

Also worth mentioning, It's funny how everyone speaks ill of many martial artists when they are dead but there apparently wasnt anyone brave enough to try many of these guys when they were alive. :icon_chee

 

[quatin]

Well.. he was in Thailand a few time.. Why not try it there. I am no anderson silva. But i did not mind getting into the ring to test myself.

Also they had boxing gyms in usa.

The whole point of Bruce Lee's legacy is combining martial arts. If he were to go into a pro-boxing career, it would be stepping backwards. Also, has anyone even heard of MT before the UFC came along? MT wasn't a household name back then. Maybe Bruce could have some exhibition matches against a MT fighter, but you can't expect the man to give up his career to move to Thailand and live on $100 per fight matches.

You guys also need to remember Bruce Lee was from Hong Kong and has his roots in Wing Chun. In those days, you prove your mastery by taking challenges and issuing challenges to other gyms in what are essentially street fights. Which is what he did, look up Lei Tai.

 

[ssullivan80]

Yeah, this one's embarrassingly bad too.

eh, difference is Jack Dempsey would actually throw punches like that and get hit with gloves about the same size as the ones he's using on that bag for the better part of 20-25rds........... fuuuuuckkkk that! He's one tough SOB!

 

[loyalyolayal]

electricity existed before Benjamin Franklin made discoveries and came up with theories regarding it but should we say fuck him too?:icon_lol:

The mans ideas were still ahead of their time and he remains one of the most influential martial artists for a reason.

carlson was doing vale tudo even before lee started having these "ideas".

 

[Discipulus]

This small clip, IMO, doesn't look great. If that was the only proof of his abilities I wouldn't think much of Jack Dempsey either. Fortunately Jack Dempsey fought in the ring and had a long and excellent career. I don't have any doubts that he was an excellent boxer, especially for his era.

Lee, on the other hand, never fought against professionals. The people he beat up were either street fighters or people that ony he and his friends watched fight. That is not very credible.

The reason I posted the video, complete with sarcastic comment, is precisely because you say stuff like that. "This small clip, IMO, doesn't look great." But you know for a fact that Jack Dempsey was and still is a legend of boxing. A truly dominant champion. So perhaps your view that the bag work is not impressive is flawed. And since the bag work here is not entirely dissimilar from Bruce's above, it should be evident that, in this regard, you have no room to speak about Bruce's evident technique.

Jack Dempsey appears to be working on his "whorl" here, his name for upper body rotation to add power to punches. It's a concept he discusses in his book, Championship Boxing. A book which Bruce is known to have used to form the basis of his Jeet Kune Do. So is it not possible that Bruce here is throwing power shots using the same technique? And is it also not possible that you, having probably never read Championship Boxing, or applied its techniques, don't know what Jack Dempsey's idea of good boxing looked like? And finally, is it not possible that you don't have grounds to challenge the efficacy of Jack Dempsey's punching style?

It may not look good to you. The point is, it doesn't matter if it looks good to you. That gives no credence whatsoever to the idea that it is ineffective. Clearly it was effective for Jack Dempsey, and that should at least prove that you can't write off Bruce's abilities on account of this video alone.

That being said, we'll never know how good Bruce actually was. It would have been great if he had competed. But it's hard to argue that he was not one of modern martial arts' greatest philosophers, and that's the truly important part of his legacy.

eh, difference is Jack Dempsey would actually throw punches like that and get hit with gloves about the same size as the ones he's using on that bag for the better part of 20-25rds........... fuuuuuckkkk that! He's one tough SOB!

He didn't get hit all that much. I think Jack is just working on power and rotation here. And that "pyramid footwork" stuff he does, kind of marching his feet forward with each whirling punch. It looks sloppy by modern standards, but remember that Jack mixed these punches with excellent straight shots as well. As far as I know, Jack is actually a sort of innovator of the modern hook.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

carlson was doing vale tudo even before lee started having these "ideas".

And the American Military that fought in world war 1 were already doing mma before anyone knew who the hell the Gracies were

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/army-combatives-training-world-war-1-a-1825039/

whats your point?:icon_chee

 

[Da Speeit]

lol embarrassingly bad?

Look at his hand speed and how he keeps his feet moving.

Try following a heavy around and it with perfectly timed straight punches. See how that works out.

 

[Discipulus]

carlson was doing vale tudo even before lee started having these "ideas".

And thanks to Carlson, the whole world knew about it!

Face it, Bruce really cemented these ideas and made them popular, because he was a superstar. Bruce could have been the worst fighter in the world, and he'd still be martial arts' Brock Lesnar. He made this stuff known, and stopped the nonsense ideas of keeping techniques secret. The Gracies may have done that, but even they've forgotten now, it seems. I don't see any Gracie videos that teach boxing technique, or how to throw a kick. How many Gracies fight in MMA now compared to the number that fought ten years ago? If you watch a Gracie vid, they'll tell you that Gracie Jiu Jitsu is the greatest art in the world, not that you should train in whatever style works for you.

We owe that latter mentality to Bruce.

 

[surfer dude]

Also, has anyone even heard of MT before the UFC came along? MT wasn't a household name back then.

It still does not qualify as a household word. At least it certainly is not nearly as prevalent as boxing, judo, or karate, in the average Americans' lexicon.

And I do not know your age, but many of us training kickboxing in the 70-80's were well aware of it. It was referred to as Thai Boxing. And appeared in the states at least as early as 1974 in the James Bond flick The Man With The Golden Gun.

 

[Discipulus]

Also, has anyone even heard of MT before the UFC came along? MT wasn't a household name back then.

Muay Thai was part of the basis of kickboxing from its very inception. Kickboxing was developed as a combination of Karate and Muay Thai. It wasn't a household name, but it was known in the west by those who were interested in kickboxing.

 

[weich]

The reason I posted the video, complete with sarcastic comment, is precisely because you say stuff like that. "This small clip, IMO, doesn't look great." But you know for a fact that Jack Dempsey was and still is a legend of boxing. A truly dominant champion. So perhaps your view that the bag work is not impressive is flawed. And since the bag work here is not entirely dissimilar from Bruce's above, it should be evident that, in this regard, you have no room to speak about Bruce's evident technique.

Jack Dempsey appears to be working on his "whorl" here, his name for upper body rotation to add power to punches. It's a concept he discusses in his book, Championship Boxing. A book which Bruce is known to have used to form the basis of his Jeet Kune Do. So is it not possible that Bruce here is throwing power shots using the same technique? And is it also not possible that you, having probably never read Championship Boxing, or applied its techniques, don't know what Jack Dempsey's idea of good boxing looked like? And finally, is it not possible that you don't have grounds to challenge the efficacy of Jack Dempsey's punching style?

It may not look good to you. The point is, it doesn't matter if it looks good to you. That gives no credence whatsoever to the idea that it is ineffective. Clearly it was for Jack Dempsey, and that should at least prove that you can't write off Bruce's abilities on account of this video alone.

That being said, we'll never know how good Bruce actually was. It would have been great if he had competed. But it's hard to argue that he was not one of modern martial arts' greatest philosophers, and that's the truly important part of his legacy.

You bring up some good points.

I'm not "writing off" Bruce's abilities because of one seventeen second clip. I'm writing off the notion that he would smoke any fighter alive because there is zero evidence of him destroying anyone of any caliber.

It doesn't do Lee any good for his ravenous fans to keep insisting that he was the baddest fighter to walk the earth when he never did anything to prove that.

I appreciate him for his MA philosophy and certainly don't discount his contributions to MA.

 

[Discipulus]

You bring up some good points.

I'm not "writing off" Bruce's abilities because of one seventeen second clip. I'm writing off the notion that he would smoke any fighter alive because there is zero evidence of him destroying anyone of any caliber.

It doesn't do Lee any good for his ravenous fans to keep insisting that he was the baddest fighter to walk the earth when he never did anything to prove that.

I appreciate him for his MA philosophy and certainly don't discount his contributions to MA.

Then you're absolutely correct in that regard. There's no basis for people who claim that he would beat any fighter alive or whatever. That's just stupid. We don't know how good he was, and we never will. Unfortunately for Bruce's legacy, he is currently suffering the same fate as many MMA fighters--dissed and disregarded because of his fanbase, not his own actions.

Bruce Lee nuts can be very annoying. And yes, they do him a disservice by making unfounded claims.

 

[quatin]

It still does not qualify as a household word. At least it certainly is not nearly as prevalent as boxing, judo, or karate, in the average Americans' lexicon.

And I do not know your age, but many of us training kickboxing in the 70-80's were well aware of it. It was referred to as Thai Boxing. And appeared in the states at least as early as 1974 in the James Bond flick The Man With The Golden Gun.

Bruce Lee Died in 73'. Not much time lapse there, especially since he got heavily involved in film in the late 60s.

 

[weich]

Then you're absolutely correct in that regard. There's no basis for people who claim that he would beat any fighter alive or whatever. That's just stupid. We don't know how good he was, and we never will. Unfortunately for Bruce's legacy, he is currently suffering the same fate as many MMA fighters--dissed and disregarded because of his fanbase, not his own actions.

Bruce Lee nuts can be very annoying. And yes, they do him a disservice by making unfounded claims.

For one example, I got into a discussion with someone on Reddit who said that Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and any Shaolin Monk would have no problem eating the liver kick that took down Lesnar, and that all of them would handle Overeem and other top HWs with ease.

I ended up starting a new post asking why people thought Lee and other movie MAs would be able to beat people. Every pro Lee comment got upvoted like crazy, any of my comments on them not being proven fighters was downvoted instantly.

Shit like that drives me crazy.

 

[Jukai]

The reason I posted the video, complete with sarcastic comment, is precisely because you say stuff like that. "This small clip, IMO, doesn't look great." But you know for a fact that Jack Dempsey was and still is a legend of boxing. A truly dominant champion. So perhaps your view that the bag work is not impressive is flawed. And since the bag work here is not entirely dissimilar from Bruce's above, it should be evident that, in this regard, you have no room to speak about Bruce's evident technique.

Jack Dempsey appears to be working on his "whorl" here, his name for upper body rotation to add power to punches. It's a concept he discusses in his book, Championship Boxing. A book which Bruce is known to have used to form the basis of his Jeet Kune Do. So is it not possible that Bruce here is throwing power shots using the same technique? And is it also not possible that you, having probably never read Championship Boxing, or applied its techniques, don't know what Jack Dempsey's idea of good boxing looked like? And finally, is it not possible that you don't have grounds to challenge the efficacy of Jack Dempsey's punching style?

It may not look good to you. The point is, it doesn't matter if it looks good to you. That gives no credence whatsoever to the idea that it is ineffective. Clearly it was effective for Jack Dempsey, and that should at least prove that you can't write off Bruce's abilities on account of this video alone.

That being said, we'll never know how good Bruce actually was. It would have been great if he had competed. But it's hard to argue that he was not one of modern martial arts' greatest philosophers, and that's the truly important part of his legacy.