Brandon Vera's "intellegent defence"

[TacWar]

I'm in agreement with the side of the argument that deems intelligent defense doing something to "improve positioning". My thoughts on that is this, from mount even if you are blocking blows the force of the blows are still coming through the block, so as long as punches are being thrown with intent to stop the fight (this was my problem with the kimbo fight when kimbo's arm was trapped) then you have to do something to get out of that position.

Covering up will prevent excess damage, but its not an intelligent defense while mounted, you have to shrimp, buck, grab the persons body, w/e it takes to get out of that position. To not do that you are asking the ref to make a judgment call on whether the fight should be stopped. Do I think it was a bit early of a stoppage, yes, but do I think it was justifiable yes.

I would much rather see a fighter be able to hop up after a stoppage then be out for 6 months due to medical reasons. The referee is there to protect the fighters and I thought that is exactly what Dan did. Is he the greatest ref ever.. probably not but I could be wrong, but still I don't know if I would have let that fight go on to the end of the round if Vera was doing that. I'll rewatch the fight and try and ref it from a camera angle, but Dan was actually in the ring watching, the rest of us at best were cageside.

 

[Chute Stomp]

I can't fucking believe what I am reading. Their would NEVER be any classic fights if the referee stopped the fight at the first sign of trouble like Miragliotta did.

Why can't some people understand that this is a fight and in a fight you are allowed to take a few shots?? Now, understanding that you people can't seriously say that Brandon Vera was taking anything other than I dunno, moderate punishment.

Did you guys watch Lauzon v Florian?? That's how it should have been done.

I didn't know you guys where so faint hearted over a bit of punishment. Actually I don't believe that, I think this is a Vera hate/Werdum love thing. For me, I just wanted to see a great fight but had it spoiled by the ref. If anything I wanted Werdum to win since ive never bought into the Vera hype.

 

[Chinaboxer]

(Disclaimer: I didn't see the Vera fight.)

Is this the same ref that was in elite? They actually let him ref again??

Yea..he's a dumshit ref. He is constantly stopping fights too early. Problem is that he's sanctioned by the Nevada Commission so i don't think the fight leagues have any say as to when and where he can ref. All i know is that Big John or Herb would have never stopped the fight at that point.

 

[hayliks]

I can't fucking believe what I am reading. Their would NEVER be any classic fights if the referee stopped the fight at the first sign of trouble like Miragliotta did.

Why can't some people understand that this is a fight and in a fight you are allowed to take a few shots?? Now, understanding that you people can't seriously say that Brandon Vera was taking anything other than I dunno, moderate punishment.

Did you guys watch Lauzon v Florian?? That's how it should have been done.

I didn't know you guys where so faint hearted over a bit of punishment. Actually I don't believe that, I think this is a Vera hate/Werdum love thing. For me, I just wanted to see a great fight but had it spoiled by the ref. If anything I wanted Werdum to win since ive never bought into the Vera hype.

Lauzon vs. Florian went on FARRR too long, and from what I've heard that's something the UFC does not want to see happen again. Shot after shot after shot without a legitimate escape attempt. While none of them were extremely damaging, concussion is still possible, and the more shots a fighter takes the damaging it can be for that individual fighter and for the SPORT of mma in the future. If every guy took as many shots as Lauzon did under mount, how long until that guy becomes punch drunk and has his mma career shortened because of it?

You guys are all fucking morons for thinking it was a bad stoppage.

 

[Chinaboxer]

Lauzon vs. Florian went on FARRR too long, and from what I've heard that's something the UFC does not want to see happen again. Shot after shot after shot without a legitimate escape attempt. While none of them were extremely damaging, concussion is still possible, and the more shots a fighter takes the damaging it can be for that individual fighter and for the SPORT of mma in the future. If every guy took as many shots as Lauzon did under mount, how long until that guy becomes punch drunk and has his mma career shortened because of it?

You guys are all fucking morons for thinking it was a bad stoppage.

in the amateur ranks, i completely agree with you. But in the elite pro ranks, one bad call can cost a fighter a title fight where millions of dollars are on the line, and top sponsorship as well; also where a bad ref can cost a fighter his bonus for winning a fight.

 

[blanko]

in the amateur ranks, i completely agree with you. But in the elite pro ranks, one bad call can cost a fighter a title fight where millions of dollars are on the line, and top sponsorship as well; also where a bad ref can cost a fighter his bonus for winning a fight.

what was vera or lauzan doing to attempt to win the fight other than to cover up into a fetal position?

 

[txfighter13]

He still lost.

 

[YeahBee]

what was vera or lauzan doing to attempt to win the fight other than to cover up into a fetal position?

seconds left ffs

they let Franklin be frekkin dragged to the corner after the first round

 

[YeahBee]

as a grappler i am suprised that you compare this stoppage to the jab leben took. I expect this from a tuf noob in the heavweights but from a trained grappler like yourself? NO. What did vera do to try to IMPROVE POSITION? Nothing. What he did is basically cover up in a fetal position. As randy said on boadcasts many times "THIS (covering up) is not an intellegent defence, you have to attempt to improve position". All the fighters know this, the ref constantly scream it at them "improve position". Letting someone punch you and hoping that he doesn't knock you out is not something a fighter like Vera should do.

Leben didn't jsut take a jab dude. IIRC he even kept coming forward, you might say that is improving position, alteast offensivly but not defensivly

if the fighter ius screaming I am okey I am okey then let him take it

 

[YeahBee]

you are allowed to take a few punches if you are mentally there and you are trying to improve position.



what's more annoying is when a fighter of high lvl greco roman training and is an accomplished grappler and a brown belt in jiu jitsu just covers up and makes NO ATTEMPT to improve position.

Is improving position a rule?

I mean some fighters like Sherk and old Tito g'n'p from guard and people try to defend all the time, rarely see any stopapges there if the guy on his bakc is just trying ot hold on

As I said before he knew how much time there was and isntead of leaving an opening when trying a sweep he decided to ride it out

 

[Terere**]

stoppage absolutely correct.. its like in boxing.. when a fighter has someone cornered and the opponent has his arms protecting their whole face and is getting hit nonstop, its always stopped.. it doesn't matter you are not unconscious or dead or w/e.. you are not fighting! its just like that in MMA.. except worse, since you are on the ground mounted and have small gloves

 

[TacWar]

Is improving position a rule?

I mean some fighters like Sherk and old Tito g'n'p from guard and people try to defend all the time, rarely see any stopapges there if the guy on his bakc is just trying ot hold on

As I said before he knew how much time there was and isntead of leaving an opening when trying a sweep he decided to ride it out

yer not trying to compare being elbowed from your guard to being punched from mount are you?

 

[YeahBee]

a little

 

[TacWar]

a little

but you see some holes in that argument now right?

 

[Ninjamurf]

yer not trying to compare being elbowed from your guard to being punched from mount are you?

If Vera was catching serious elbows I could see it being stopped. What he was doing was blocking Werdum's pitter patter fairly effectively. Sure, some were getting through but none of them did any damage. Seriously if a guy is slapping me on my forehead relentlessly do I have "improve my position"? Hell no. Why not? Because he's not doing any real damage. Vera was no where close to being out. And as far as the "intelligently defending" yourself crowd I would argue that Vera WAS intelligently defending himself. That's why most of Werdum's punches got BLOCKED. If someone has there hands at their sides while someone else is beating on their face...THAT'S not intelligent. If someone IS hitting you in the face I think one of the most intelligent things to do would be to actually try to block those punches, which he did. Vera's corner is screaming at him how much time is left. He knows that he only has to cover up for another 10 seconds. Mirgliotta should have been more aware of the time. No damage being done, 10 seconds left, no reason to stop it.

 

[TacWar]

If Vera was catching serious elbows I could see it being stopped. What he was doing was blocking Werdum's pitter patter fairly effectively. Sure, some were getting through but none of them did any damage. Seriously if a guy is slapping me on my forehead relentlessly do I have "improve my position"? Hell no. Why not? Because he's not doing any real damage. Vera was no where close to being out. And as far as the "intelligently defending" yourself crowd I would argue that Vera WAS intelligently defending himself. That's why most of Werdum's punches got BLOCKED. If someone has there hands at their sides while someone else is beating on their face...THAT'S not intelligent. If someone IS hitting you in the face I think one of the most intelligent things to do would be to actually try to block those punches, which he did. Vera's corner is screaming at him how much time is left. He knows that he only has to cover up for another 10 seconds. Mirgliotta should have been more aware of the time. No damage being done, 10 seconds left, no reason to stop it.

I don't see it as very intelligent to let someone hit me from mount even if I am blocking most of the damage. for me intelligent defense is improving position if mounted or grabbing the torso to break posture not letting someone posture up and punch while i have my hands up.