Brady > Belichick ?

[Deffid]

Lol, I had the nerve to suggest Brady ended up in a significantly better position this season and every Pat fan on this board freaked the fuck out.

Terrible fans and far too emotionally attached to someone who plays for another team.

We all actually joked about this exact scenario before the season. Bucs had the underrated D because of Jameis, did good work on their O-Line and already had tremendous skill position players, then they added AB as well. Of course it was a significantly better situation than the Pats had, even before all of their opt outs.

And of course it was clear which person would get 100% of the credit for the Bucs "magically" improving without 100's of turnovers and a stronger roster...

The expectation of that team, if Belichick wasn't coaching is 3-4 games at most

People holding that season against BB are weirdos, they had no business winning as much as they did lol.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

The expectation of that team, if Belichick wasn't coaching is 3-4 games at most

The difference between Belichick getting the Patriots to 7-9 instead of 3-13 or 4-12 and Brady getting the Buccaneers to 11-5 instead of 6-10 or 7-9, is that the latter actually makes a team relevant and gives them a chance to win a Super Bowl. A head coach is more valuable to a franchise in the long term than a starting quarterback is, because a coach can be effective longer, but a starting QB is more important for as long as he's able to play effectively. If Brady wasn't in the twilight of his career, the Pats would have picked him over Belichick. Hell, they basically did with the Jimmy G. situation but Belichick stayed in town, albeit with a blow to his mighty ego.

 

[Bamboozled]

The difference between Belichick getting the Patriots to 7-9 instead of 3-13 or 4-12 and Brady getting the Buccaneers to 11-5 instead of 6-10 or 7-9, is that the latter actually makes a team relevant and gives them a chance to win a Super Bowl. A head coach is more valuable to a franchise in the long term than a starting quarterback is, because a coach can be effective longer, but a starting QB is more important for as long as he's able to play effectively. If Brady wasn't in the twilight of his career, the Pats would have picked him over Belichick. Hell, they basically did with the Jimmy G. situation but Belichick stayed in town, albeit with a blow to his mighty ego.

That team was talented before Brady got there

The only questions they had were in the secondary

 

[rearnakedchoke]

A lot of Brady haters in here. Too funny. He has just gotten lucky over the last two decades.

 

[Madmick]

We all actually joked about this exact scenario before the season. Bucs had the underrated D because of Jameis, did good work on their O-Line and already had tremendous skill position players, then they added AB as well. Of course it was a significantly better situation than the Pats had, even before all of their opt outs.

And of course it was clear which person would get 100% of the credit for the Bucs "magically" improving without 100's of turnovers and a stronger roster...


People holding that season against BB are weirdos, they had no business winning as much as they did lol.

The delusional bullshit being spewed in here is hilarious. Now the Brady haters are retreating to hypothetical speculation as their refuge, and because even those imaginary arguments don't save face for them, they resort to fabricating lies about what they were. Not a single major outlet or betting site projected the Bucs for 11+ wins. Meanwhile, every outlet projected a winning season for the Patriots.

Pre-Season Record Predictions

NFL.com (AFC) (NFC)
New England Patriots: 8.4 - 7.6
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.0 - 7.0

ESPN
New England Patriots: 8.6 - 7.4
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.1 - 6.9

CBS Sports
New England Patriots: 9.5 - 6.5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5

USA Today
New England Patriots: 9.5 - 6.5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 10.0 - 6.0

Bleacher Report
New England Patriots: 9 - 7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 10 - 6

FiveThirtyEight
New England Patriots: 9 - 7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9 - 7

PFF
New England Patriots: 9.5 - 6.5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5

DraftKings (NFC / AFC)
New England Patriots: 8.5 - 7.5 (Panel Split 2-2 on Over/Under)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5 (Panel Split 2-2 on Over/Under)

Vegas Insider
New England Patriots: 9.0 - 7.0
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5

 

[Deffid]

The delusional bullshit being spewed in here is hilarious. Now the Brady haters are retreating to hypothetical speculation as their refuge, and because even those imaginary arguments don't save face for them, they resort to fabricating lies about what they were. Not a single major outlet or betting site projected the Bucs for 11+ wins. Meanwhile, every outlet projected a winning season for the Patriots.

Pre-Season Record Predictions

NFL.com (AFC) (NFC)
New England Patriots: 8.4 - 7.6
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.0 - 7.0

ESPN
New England Patriots: 8.6 - 7.4
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.1 - 6.9

CBS Sports
New England Patriots: 9.5 - 6.5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5

USA Today
New England Patriots: 9.5 - 6.5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 10.0 - 6.0

Bleacher Report
New England Patriots: 9 - 7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 10 - 6

FiveThirtyEight
New England Patriots: 9 - 7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9 - 7

PFF
New England Patriots: 9.5 - 6.5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5

DraftKings (NFC / AFC)
New England Patriots: 8.5 - 7.5 (Panel Split 2-2 on Over/Under)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5 (Panel Split 2-2 on Over/Under)

Vegas Insider
New England Patriots: 9.0 - 7.0
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9.5 - 6.5

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...eo-weo-edition.4099265/page-65#post-159959975

Bucs are going to have a stacked team after the draft, their defense is already underrated due to 100 turnovers by Jameis and the offense has some great weapons. They are in prime position this year to fix the O-Line as well.

Can't wait for the media to give Brady 100% of the credit when they do well.

---------

There were several similar posts in the NFL threads by other posters. Also not sure what these predictions have to do with what is being talked about here (Ok I'm sure: nothing).

 

[Deffid]

Another post in response to @Jackie Blue

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/nfl-discussion-system-qb.4142942/page-44#post-162436169

Brady is amazing, I appreciate him more and more. Not sure why Pats fans do the whole Brady or BB discussion, though. Both were responsible for all the Pats success.

Pats lost a bunch of more players due to opt outs and injuries. Bucs defense was underrated because of tons of Winston turnovers, they still got Winfield who's great, the pass rush, ILBs and secondary in general are great as well. They shored up the O-Line with Wirfs and free agency, already got Godwin and Evans, got Gronk and now AB. They did a tremendous job building that team and Brady simply does what he does, definitely serious SB contenders imo.

 

[Madmick]

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...eo-weo-edition.4099265/page-65#post-159959975

Bucs are going to have a stacked team after the draft, their defense is already underrated due to 100 turnovers by Jameis and the offense has some great weapons. They are in prime position this year to fix the O-Line as well.

Can't wait for the media to give Brady 100% of the credit when they do well.

---------

There were several similar posts in the NFL threads by other posters. Also not sure what these predictions have to do with what is being talked about here (Ok I'm sure: nothing).

I don't care about the dumb excuses whiny Brady haters were preemptively laying before the season. I'm highlighting the facts of professional sports punditry, statistical analysis, and crowdsourced betting lines.

The fact is exactly as I just stated. Not a single major journalistic sports staff projected an 11+ win season for the Bucs, and not a single one projected a losing season for the Pats. The most common projection, by mean, median, or mode, ffs, unsurprisingly corresponds to the projection offered by Nate Silver there. Here, I'll simplify the math of it for you.

New England Patriots: 9 - 7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9 - 7

Brady = +2
Belichick = -2

Brady > Belichick

 

[Deffid]

I'm highlighting the facts of professional sports punditry, statistical analysis, and crowdsourced betting lines.

Incredible job by them then. I guess some nerds on a Karate forum were more in touch with what would eventually happen, in fact exactly predicted what would happen on the field and in the media (not that it was hard). Pre-season predictions are never "facts", no matter how much analysis goes into them.

Are these the same major sports journalists who were shitting all over the Packers offseason and before that all over the Matt LaFleur hire, including constantly making shit up about Rodgers/LaFleur?

We won't come to an agreement anyway here (I'm not even interested in BB vs. Brady, which is the topic, as I stated I find that discussion very weird), but I'd like to know where in the hell the Packers defense was ranked Top 5 for this season? You stated that and I find that highly unlikely tbh. You stated that earlier in the thread, but maybe I just read it wrong.

 

[Madmick]

Incredible job by them then. I guess some nerds on a Karate forum were more in touch with what would eventually happen, in fact exactly predicted what would happen on the field and in the media (not that it was hard). Pre-season predictions are never "facts", no matter how much analysis goes into them.

Are these the same major sports journalists who were shitting all over the Packers offseason and before that all over the Matt LaFleur hire, including constantly making shit up about Rodgers/LaFleur?

We won't come to an agreement anyway here (I'm not even interested in BB vs. Brady, which is the topic, as I stated I find that discussion very weird), but I'd like to know where in the hell the Packers defense was ranked Top 5 for this season? You stated that and I find that highly unlikely tbh. You stated that earlier in the thread, but maybe I just read it wrong.

Funny, the kids on the karate forum didn't offer a specific Win-Loss record.

See, that's the thing about seer-saying. It's a put up or shut up enterprise.

 

[Deffid]

Funny, the kids on the karate forum didn't offer a specific Win-Loss record.

See, that's the thing about seer-saying. It's a put up or shut up enterprise.

Very weak response.

Little example about the defensive performance, here is the Jackie take at the end of the regular season:

No, you were. You were acting as if Brady was the lucky recipient of the defense magically getting better. Tell me what defensive talent they picked up this year compared to last year? Literally all of the added talent was on offense. The offense being better made the defense better. Brady has 1/3 as many turnovers as Winston. BIG difference.

Here a short line before the season, that was by me but some Bucs fans also had that sentiment after the last season:

their defense is already underrated due to 100 turnovers by Jameis

Just an example.

But yeah, all these opinions from before the season are automatically wrong/not worth anything because people dared to not predict the exact win-loss record for a team they aren't a fan of. Makes sense.
-------------------

Please answer my Packers defense question, I'm really curious about that.

 

[Madmick]

Very weak response.

Little example about the defensive performance, here is the Jackie take at the end of the regular season:


Here a short line before the season, that was by me but some Bucs fans also had that sentiment after the last season:

their defense is already underrated due to 100 turnovers by Jameis

Just an example.

But yeah, all these opinions from before the season are automatically wrong/not worth anything because people dared to not predict the exact win-loss record for a team they aren't a fan of. Makes sense.
-------------------

Please answer my Packers defense question, I'm really curious about that.

No, here's the only weak shit, and you quoted it:

The expectation of that team, if Belichick wasn't coaching is 3-4 games at most

Pure speculation. I could just as easily say, "The Bucs would have been projected to win 3-4 games without Brady on the roster."

The fact is that the projections put them both at 9-7. Belichik underperformed relative to what was expected of the Patriots. Brady overperformed relative to what was expected of him.

The fact the Brady haters believe their own bullshit so little they can't even put their money where their mouth is, and predict a terrible Bucs season with Brady at the helm, since according to them he's an overrated, old, washed up, system QB who was carried by Belichick for two decades....well, that tells you who the spineless armchair analysts are.

 

[Deffid]

No, here's the only weak shit, and you quoted it:

Pure speculation. I could just as easily say, "The Bucs would have bene projected to win 3-4 games without Brady on it."

The fact is that the projections put them both at 9-7. Belichik underperformed relative to what was expected of the Patriots. Brady overperformed relative to what was expected of him.

The fact the Brady haters believe their own bullshit so little they can't even put their money where their mouth is, and predict a terrible Bucs season with Brady at the helm, since according to them he's an overrated, old, washed up, system QB who was carried by Belichick for two decades....well, that tells you who the spineless armchair analysts are.

How dare I...and yes, Pats fans who do the whole BB vs. Brady thing are weirdos. As for the Pats, I feel like people (including me) underestimated how terrible Cam has become, his throwing motion looks like that of a disabled kid, granted I'm used to Rodgers.

And the Bucs most certainly would have been a weaker team without Brady and instead some average dude at QB.

Hope you don't mean me with the last part, unless calling Brady amazing and appreciating him more and more is somehow hating on him lol.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Very weak response.

Little example about the defensive performance, here is the Jackie take at the end of the regular season:



Here a short line before the season, that was by me but some Bucs fans also had that sentiment after the last season:

their defense is already underrated due to 100 turnovers by Jameis

Just an example.

But yeah, all these opinions from before the season are automatically wrong/not worth anything because people dared to not predict the exact win-loss record for a team they aren't a fan of. Makes sense.
-------------------

Please answer my Packers defense question, I'm really curious about that.

What Packers defense question? Or were you asking that of @Madmick (who you also quoted in the post) or someone else?

 

[Deffid]

What Packers defense question? Or were you asking that of @Madmick (who you also quoted in the post) or someone else?

Not you. He claimed that the Packers have a Top 5 value adjusted defense which does not sound right. IIRC they are around 15 in DVOA for the defense, top in offense and Top 5 overall, maybe he meant that, his point would be wrong then.

 

[Bamboozled]

No, here's the only weak shit, and you quoted it:

Pure speculation. I could just as easily say, "The Bucs would have bene projected to win 3-4 games without Brady on it."

The fact is that the projections put them both at 9-7. Belichik underperformed relative to what was expected of the Patriots. Brady overperformed relative to what was expected of him.

The fact the Brady haters believe their own bullshit so little they can't even put their money where their mouth is, and predict a terrible Bucs season with Brady at the helm, since according to them he's an overrated, old, washed up, system QB who was carried by Belichick for two decades....well, that tells you who the spineless armchair analysts are.

Pure speculation? You think a coach like Matt Nagy would have that team at 7 wins? LOL

 

[Dizzy]

@Madmick getting his shit pushed in yet again lol

 

[Morning Star]

A lot of Brady haters in here. Too funny. He has just gotten lucky over the last two decades.

They remind me of this clown:



You'd think having the record in the following would make him undeniable:

• Rings (6)
• Super Bowl MVPs (4)
• Regular Season Passing TDs (581)
• Playoff Passing TDs (73, 28 more than the next closest guy in Montana who has 45, Rodgers has 40, Brees 34),
• Playoff Passing Yards (11,388, which is 4,000 yards more than the next closest guy, for context only 8 players in history even have 4,000 or more)
• Regular Season Wins (230, next closest is Manning/Favre at 186)
• Postseason Wins (30, next closest is Big Ben at 13)
• 2nd in Regular Season passing yards all-time despite playing in a cold weather City for nearly his whole career with 79,204. Probably will pass Brees in this too.

I don't see them winning it this year but they over performed, albeit slightly. Brady had a solid year for a 43 year old.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

They remind me of this clown:



You'd think having the record in the following would make him undeniable:

• Rings (6)
• Super Bowl MVPs (4)
• Regular Season Passing TDs (581)
• Playoff Passing TDs (73, 28 more than the next closest guy in Montana who has 45, Rodgers has 40, Brees 34),
• Playoff Passing Yards (11,388, which is 4,000 yards more than the next closest guy, for context only 8 players in history even have 4,000 or more)
• Regular Season Wins (230, next closest is Manning/Favre at 186)
• Postseason Wins (30, next closest is Big Ben at 13)
• 2nd in Regular Season passing yards all-time despite playing in a cold weather City for nearly his whole career with 79,204. Probably will pass Brees in this too.

I don't see them winning it this year but they over performed, albeit slightly. Brady had a solid year for a 43 year old.

Thanks. I’ve never seen this guy before. Remember that time Tom got lucky and came back from a 28-3 deficit and won the super bowl? Or his first appearance when his team was a two touchdown dog and got lucky?

 

[Morning Star]

Thanks. I’ve never seen this guy before. Remember that time Tom got lucky and came back from a 28-3 deficit and won the super bowl? Or his first appearance when his team was a two touchdown dog and got lucky?

He's the guy that got fired from ESPN for calling RG3 a "cornball brother". Him and Max Kellerman hate on Brady every year and it blew up their faces everytime he won another ring this decade.

Honesty I don't know if guys like that even believe what they're saying or if they're just pulling a Skip Bayless (hating on a popular athlete nonsensically to get attention).