Boxing vs Muay Thai as a Striking Base in MMA

RAFI BOMB said:
After watching Masdival knockout Till, it got me thinking about which striking style is the best base for mma fighters. The common assumption has been that muay thai is the best base and then it can be supplemented with other disciplines such as boxing. But after seeing Masdival vs Till, Masdival vs Cerrone, Diaz vs Cerrone and Rose vs Joanna, it seems like a boxing centric attack might be superior.

Muay thai fighters, or at least many muay thai fighters in mma, seem to lack head movement and seem unable to defend against many boxing attacks. Maybe there are different styles of muay thai, or maybe true muay thai is better equipped to deal with some of the boxing attacks. It just seem like many muay thai centric style mma fighters are lost and confused when facing a boxing centric opponent.

I am not arguing that muay thai doesn't hold value, just that maybe fighters should focus on boxing as a striking base and then supplement it with muay thai instead of the other way around.

Thoughts?
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??? Watch fight again and count how many times Masvidal bodykicked Till...<45>
And since when Cerrone is "muay thai" fighter.
Joanna outstriked Namajunas very soundly in rematch.
On same card you got Reyes vs Ozdemir and Reyes won via more kicks (especially low kicks), when Volkan was headhunting.
 
Blazmo said:
Boxing probably just seems better because it's so much more popular and well-known than Muay Thai which means it's better developed. If Muay Thai became as popular as boxing the practical reality of head movement, amongst other things, would probably make itself clear over time.
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Muay thai is the second biggest full contact combat sport after boxing. The problem is that depth and skill level crash at 135lbs and over. Not to mention that the level of muay thai in the biggest mma countries: US, Brazil is terrible.

So when I see guys like TS giving (cherry-picked) examples of a US based MT guy losing ‘because MT’, I know that he doesn’t know the first thing about the scene.

On a side note: Masvidal is one of the very best Muay Thai fighters on the roster. He is so good, that you can no longer call him a ‘boxer’ who supplements his boxing with Muay Thai. Listen to that Q&A he did before the event. Favorite fighter ever: Duran but he also says that he LOVES Muay Thai.

Looking at his style vs Till’s, it’s pretty obvious that, even though Till has done some local MT competition in his youth, Mas applies MT concepts much better - he actually uses elbows, knees and high kicks to win fights. Till fights more like a karate guy.
 
Boxing footwork and head movement are far superior. Muaythai is a more complete system. If you can combine the two you get the best of both worlds.
 
grimballer said:
Dutch kickboxing
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You mean the style that (in its present day form) is all about alternating between spamming set combos and low kicks and covering up, the style that has zero headmovement or evasiveness and whose fighters are weak in the clinch?

MT >>> Dutch/euro style kickboxing (for mma)
 
The obvious answer is neither. It's MMA and it's all on the fighter and his/her training and by whom..... and between the ears[fight IQ]. I saw Raphael Cordeiro turn Werdum from a one dimensional flop on his back bjj ace to a moving forward m-Thai beast and became UFC champ because of it.
 
CPH said:
You mean the style that (in its present day form) is all about alternating between spamming set combos and low kicks and covering up, the style that has zero headmovement or evasiveness and whose fighters are weak in the clinch?

MT >>> Dutch/euro style kickboxing (for mma)
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Dutch > mt when it comes to pretty much everything except clinching

Better boxing
Better movement
Lighter on the feet
 
grimballer said:
Dutch > mt when it comes to pretty much everything except clinching

Better boxing
Better movement
Lighter on the feet
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wrong across the board

Never seen a dutch guy as slick defensively as Saenchai, Lerdsila or having hands as good as Samart, Somluck.

And ‘lighter in the feet‘...? That’s some silly criteria for quality. Petrosian and Sittichai, who don’t espouse that bouncy in and out bullshit, eat all these euro/dutch based guys for breakfast.

How did Till’s light-footed style fare against Mas?
 
grimballer said:
Dutch kickboxing
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Not the best crossing into MMA, imo.

Works well under glory and k1 rules (what it's obviously designed for), but gets absolutely killed in full Muay Thai rules.

Too much relying on taking shots on the big gloves, they rely on toughness, take so much damage and are happy to eat more lowkicks than they check, they don't do much dodging/evading, angles or range control it's alot of spam pre-set combos in hopes of getting something alot of the time.

Dutch kickboxing= Turn-based spray and pray

Thai boxing= Precision tactical striking

And before anyone brings up Ramon Dekkers, he was fighting on a time where the Dutch were fighting under thai-esque rules. Also not to mention physically Dekkers was a relentless freak and a KO artist, which kind of transcends all striking "styles".

Unfortunately this walking down tough guy style is what people in general see "Muay Thai" as. Gotta research the greats to see the real art.
 
Last edited:
This should enlighten some of you:

https://www.google.dk/amp/s/www.spo...e-beginnings-the-rise-of-mma-in-asia-and-more

Some relevant excerpts:

Q) There are several techniques in MMA, boxing, and kickboxing. Is there one that stands out and seems to be more useful when it comes to those big matches?

I definitely love Muay Thai and collegiate style American wrestling. They are two of my favourite things from MMA that I really think are key. If you are good at one of those, you can always succeed in MMA.

Q) Why do you say that? Why these two specifically?

It just works. You see when the best guys in Muay Thai do kickboxing, they wipe the floor with the competition. I hold Muay Thai in very high regard. Especially if they are from Thailand, those guys really take care of business. Boxing is also amazing but you can kind of neutralise boxing with good kicks. So I really think Muay Thai is one of the best. To me, it is the best standing art there is. And wrestling is something you need in a fight. Because if you are good at Muay Thai but you can’t stop a takedown, it doesn’t matter. Somebody will just take you down and beat you up then. It doesn’t matter that your good at kicking or punching.
 
One thing I’ll say about Muay Thai is that the level of fighters and outfighters specifically had dropped in the past 20 years because of the sport’s decline in Thailand, and the grip gambling has on how fights are judged, and consequently on how fighters train and fight. Very unfortunate.
 
People make it seem like learning how to deal with kicks knees and elbows are some silly afterthought to being able to KO someone with the hands, when the reality is all those things are what allow for the KO to happen. I'd say it's just as crucial as learning TD defense.

Now if you just love the boxing aspect aesthetically that's fine, but OPs argument seems a little disingenuous considering the nature of MMA is to mix everything within the allowed ruleset.
 
Masvidals head movement is something to behold. Not sure that you can get it from MT. In Muay Thai you mostly getting the agressive moving forward striking, combining boxing, elbows, knees, kicks. His movement is probably something he get very early when he was exposed to some boxing training, or in the actual street fights. Tho the later is very questionable
 
FokaiMuayThai said:
People make it seem like learning how to deal with kicks knees and elbows are some silly afterthought to being able to KO someone with the hands, when the reality is all those things are what allow for the KO to happen.
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This is so spot on, and so unappreciated by mma fans. The “how many fights get finished by a jab brah?” types.
 
Better Every Day said:
Why do you think that Rose vs. Joanna sheds any light on the issue of the value of boxing as a striking base? As far as I know, neither woman has a boxing base.

Joanna has a Muay Thai base.

Rose began with Taekwondo and karate, and then trained kickboxing, but has no particular boxing background of which I am aware.
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True, but Her coach is a respected Boxing trainer
 
RAFI BOMB said:
After watching Masdival knockout Till, it got me thinking about which striking style is the best base for mma fighters. The common assumption has been that muay thai is the best base and then it can be supplemented with other disciplines such as boxing. But after seeing Masdival vs Till, Masdival vs Cerrone, Diaz vs Cerrone and Rose vs Joanna, it seems like a boxing centric attack might be superior.

Muay thai fighters, or at least many muay thai fighters in mma, seem to lack head movement and seem unable to defend against many boxing attacks. Maybe there are different styles of muay thai, or maybe true muay thai is better equipped to deal with some of the boxing attacks. It just seem like many muay thai centric style mma fighters are lost and confused when facing a boxing centric opponent.

I am not arguing that muay thai doesn't hold value, just that maybe fighters should focus on boxing as a striking base and then supplement it with muay thai instead of the other way around.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Masvidal is more trad Thai than Till you absolute knucklehead.

Box fans are the worst.
 
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