Boxing vs Muay Thai as a Striking Base in MMA

How would a boxing coach fix this issue?

Day after day after day or sparring and defence practice, and hitting him with pads when he just stands completely upright, leaving his chin up like a fucking tool, with no head movement.

It's something that takes a long time, years, which is why boxing is such a hard sport for people to just stroll into and have success.

It's why even though he's trained with Bellew and whoever else, here and there, it doesn't really mean anything. You have to do it day in, day out, for years for it to really have an impact, especially at high level. Same kind of deal with Conor training wrestling for Kebab I guess, obviously he wasn't going to catch up in one training camp.

Boxing fundamentals such as footwork and defence that we somewhat take for granted in elite boxers, are a big part of what's missing in MMA fighters. The difference is huge.
 
Lol. MT is superior because incorporates the clinch. Try to take down Saenchai or Buakaw, they would throw you out of the cage, they are like rocks. I trained in Thailand (not competitive camp or anything), trust me
 
How would a boxing coach fix this issue?

They'd teach him to keep his hands up and chin down.

Yes. His style is neither boxing or Muay Thai. It's pretty unique.

Ironically he is most susceptible to boxing, ie Gus 1 and the only success Cormier had was pretty much boxing.

Boxing is the weakest element of Jones' game yes. His striking style is his own take on muay thai. He also showed how to shut down those two better boxers with his superior muay thai, especially in the rematches (and especially in the Gus rematch where Gus basically didn't land a single punch).
 
Yes. His style is neither boxing or Muay Thai. It's pretty unique.

Ironically he is most susceptible to boxing, ie Gus 1 and the only success Cormier had was pretty much boxing.
His style is pretty well based in Muay Thai. Anyways, a ton of great fighters have comes from a Muay Thai base. A ton have come from boxing. Saying one is superior is pretty silly
 
After watching Masdival knockout Till, it got me thinking about which striking style is the best base for mma fighters. The common assumption has been that muay thai is the best base and then it can be supplemented with other disciplines such as boxing. But after seeing Masdival vs Till, Masdival vs Cerrone, Diaz vs Cerrone and Rose vs Joanna, it seems like a boxing centric attack might be superior.

Muay thai fighters, or at least many muay thai fighters in mma, seem to lack head movement and seem unable to defend against many boxing attacks. Maybe there are different styles of muay thai, or maybe true muay thai is better equipped to deal with some of the boxing attacks. It just seem like many muay thai centric style mma fighters are lost and confused when facing a boxing centric opponent.

I am not arguing that muay thai doesn't hold value, just that maybe fighters should focus on boxing as a striking base and then supplement it with muay thai instead of the other way around.

Thoughts?


Let me get this straight. The best striking base for mma is one that does not involve elbows, knees and kicks?
 
After watching Masdival knockout Till, it got me thinking about which striking style is the best base for mma fighters. The common assumption has been that muay thai is the best base and then it can be supplemented with other disciplines such as boxing. But after seeing Masdival vs Till, Masdival vs Cerrone, Diaz vs Cerrone and Rose vs Joanna, it seems like a boxing centric attack might be superior.

Muay thai fighters, or at least many muay thai fighters in mma, seem to lack head movement and seem unable to defend against many boxing attacks. Maybe there are different styles of muay thai, or maybe true muay thai is better equipped to deal with some of the boxing attacks. It just seem like many muay thai centric style mma fighters are lost and confused when facing a boxing centric opponent.

I am not arguing that muay thai doesn't hold value, just that maybe fighters should focus on boxing as a striking base and then supplement it with muay thai instead of the other way around.

Thoughts?
It's hard to argue against Boxing when you see how much something as basic and seemingly rare as a good jab can dictate a fight and frustrate an opponent in MMA.
 
Darren tills muay thai was on point today with that straight left hand and no kicks. Wasn't good enough to beat the superior boxing technician in masvidal though. Those roundhouse kicks Masvidal was throwing. High level stuff, definitely learned that in the boxing gym for sure op
 
How would a boxing coach fix this issue?

Till keeps his head straight up and his only real defensive reaction is to pull his head back or try to step out of range. A boxing coach would get him to keep his chin tucked, to be cautious not to leave himself defensively exposed when throwing punches and to bob and weave when his opponent is throwing hooks.

For example, when Till fought Woodley, he made a major error from a boxing perspective. It is a bad idea to lead with a rear uppercut. That punch needs to be carefully set up and it should only be thrown at a certain range. The reason why is that it leaves a fighter open for a lead hook counter where they will almost certainly get dropped. In the Till vs Woodley fight, Till had a southpaw stance and Woodley an orthodox stance. Till throws a few jab feints but his rear hand drops to below his chest. He was already wide open for a cross, right hook or over hand right from Woodley. His decision to lunge in with a kind of rear uppercut, left him even more wide open for a counter and actually created the momentum of his body going into the punch, which allowed for Woodley's counter to cause even more damage. As expected, Woodley threw a counter overhand right and dropped Till with ease and followed it up with a submission once on the ground.

A boxing coach would help him understand how to better anticipate his opponents attacks. For example, dropping the rear hand could possibly be a tactic to bait an opponent into throwing a lead hook. If a boxer can give their opponent certain opportunities for attack, they can try and limit the type of attack they will choose and then be better prepared for a counter. If your opponent drops their rear hand after every cross they throw, then you might want to bait them into throwing a cross so you can counter with a hook. Boxing takes the wild nature of fights and turns them into a chess match.
 
Darren tills muay thai was on point today with that straight left hand and no kicks. Wasn't good enough to beat the superior boxing technician in masvidal though. Those roundhouse kicks Masvidal was throwing. High level stuff, definitely learned that in the boxing gym for sure op

Did you even read the opening post? It doesn't seem like it. The point was debating boxing centric vs muay thai centric. Masdival had a boxing centric attack and supplemented it with muay thai and kickboxing tactics.

As I stated in the op, it is a debate of boxing centric with muay thai supplemented vs muay thai centric with boxing supplemented.
 
It really comes down to personal preference and how good you are at the given style. If you dont close distance and create angles well, you are eventually going to get fucked up using boxing. If you cant defend straight on shots or have to rely on grabbing, you will get smashed with muay thai. Its very unlikely to be good at both but one can become competent at one and good in another.
 
alistair-overeem-vs.-junior-dos-santos-1024x480.jpg

094_Cody_Garbrandt_vs_TJ_Dillashaw.jpg

knockout-of-year1.jpg

edson-barboza-of-brazil-punches-gilbert-melendez-in-their-lightweight-picture-id579383482

ufc-fn-131-moares-rivera-1527918027.jpg
 
Don't forget Nunes x Cyborg:
images


But then there's also Holm x Shevchenko:
images


So which is it???
<DCWhoa><DCWhoa>
In reality it always comes back to "styles make fights", like in MMA, there are different styles of Muay Thai and Boxing. A lot of the times these MMA Boxers are connecting on MT strikers with a more plodding style. The boxer has the faster weapons, employing more straight punches and quick hand combinations. Allowing them to slip through their opponents guard more easily, especially since MT fighters are used to sparring with big gloves and have a hard time adjusting their defense.

However if you have a more mobile MT striker, they can make use of more of their weapons, while staying out of danger. I've also noticed a lot of gyms in Thailand have been adding western style boxing coaches to their camps, I'm guessing they've been seeing the importance of good punch mechanics. That was never a problem for Valentina though, she pieced up multiple division boxing world champion Holly Holm in a mostly mobile stand up fight. Another example is Econoreem x JDS
 
Last edited:
After watching Masdival knockout Till, it got me thinking about which striking style is the best base for mma fighters. The common assumption has been that muay thai is the best base and then it can be supplemented with other disciplines such as boxing. But after seeing Masdival vs Till, Masdival vs Cerrone, Diaz vs Cerrone and Rose vs Joanna, it seems like a boxing centric attack might be superior.

Muay thai fighters, or at least many muay thai fighters in mma, seem to lack head movement and seem unable to defend against many boxing attacks. Maybe there are different styles of muay thai, or maybe true muay thai is better equipped to deal with some of the boxing attacks. It just seem like many muay thai centric style mma fighters are lost and confused when facing a boxing centric opponent.

I am not arguing that muay thai doesn't hold value, just that maybe fighters should focus on boxing as a striking base and then supplement it with muay thai instead of the other way around.

Thoughts?
Masvidal threw a lot of kicks and some knees in that fight with Till, good boxing works with a diverse striking game
 
Petr Yan (master of sport boxer) vs De Andrade (muay thai).

Watch that fight.

The boxer needs some Muay thai fundanentals though. Petr Yan trains at a Muay Thai camps ahead of fights and has great clinch, elbows and knees.
 
There are thousands of examples that make cases for either side.
Technique wise my experience is that it's better to invest a lot of time in one thing and then in both.
That means boxing first, then muay thai.
Because the other way around you implement "sloppier" hands into your game and it takes more time to get that out, than to get good hands in.

Yes TJ beat Garbrandt twice, but apart from Garbrandt's unwillingness to keep his hands up, his movement is so much smoother.
Tj was in his prime at 31 and 32 and Garbrandt wasn't yet at 25, 26. Maybe he will never be with his dumb Arturo Gatti attitude.

You only get this if you have spent at least 1-2 years in a fighting gym. If you haven't trained you have a different opinion.
 
Till keeps his head straight up and his only real defensive reaction is to pull his head back or try to step out of range. A boxing coach would get him to keep his chin tucked, to be cautious not to leave himself defensively exposed when throwing punches and to bob and weave when his opponent is throwing hooks.

For example, when Till fought Woodley, he made a major error from a boxing perspective. It is a bad idea to lead with a rear uppercut. That punch needs to be carefully set up and it should only be thrown at a certain range. The reason why is that it leaves a fighter open for a lead hook counter where they will almost certainly get dropped. In the Till vs Woodley fight, Till had a southpaw stance and Woodley an orthodox stance. Till throws a few jab feints but his rear hand drops to below his chest. He was already wide open for a cross, right hook or over hand right from Woodley. His decision to lunge in with a kind of rear uppercut, left him even more wide open for a counter and actually created the momentum of his body going into the punch, which allowed for Woodley's counter to cause even more damage. As expected, Woodley threw a counter overhand right and dropped Till with ease and followed it up with a submission once on the ground.

A boxing coach would help him understand how to better anticipate his opponents attacks. For example, dropping the rear hand could possibly be a tactic to bait an opponent into throwing a lead hook. If a boxer can give their opponent certain opportunities for attack, they can try and limit the type of attack they will choose and then be better prepared for a counter. If your opponent drops their rear hand after every cross they throw, then you might want to bait them into throwing a cross so you can counter with a hook. Boxing takes the wild nature of fights and turns them into a chess match.

Boxing coach isn't going to change that. Somewhere recently Till adopted a karate hybrid stance, it has nothing to do with his gym or coaching. Look at the rest of his teammates. Nobody fights like him. When you watch his earlier mma fights. His stance was a bit more squared in his shoulders and it's tight guard/chin down. It was also flawed since for some reason he had all his weight on his front foot and he would lean forward.
Some of his recent flaws seem Mcgregor inspired; he throws these lead uppercuts without setups as well. He also poses everytime he throws a straight left. All these "flaws" didn't exist earlier in his career. I think he is just still learning and trying new things out. The karate dart/blitz does work for him since he got a knockdown within a few seconds of the Jorge fight.
 
It should be judged by each individual fighter not their style. Are we not going to pretend that Jorge didn't get knocked down the last two fights by kickboxers? If it's only by style; wouldn't boxing helped him move his head and avoid the punches? It obviously doesn't work that way.....
 
Muay Thai has kicks, elbows, knees and clinch work ..... boxing has a set of rules formulated by 19th century English aristocrats to outlaw those tools and limit the potential for damage. Which of those is the better fit with the mma rule set?

Is Masvidal being held up as an example of a boxer? Heck he was even using MT back in his backyard fights.
 
Boxing - better lateral footwork, head movement, obviously crisper hands (punches being the most low risk, high % striking tool you have)

Muay Thai - leg kicks, defending leg kicks, clinch game.

Both important and you need to adapt both to work in an MMA setting.
 
Back
Top