Boxing vs Muay Thai as a Striking Base in MMA

On a side note: Masvidal is one of the very best Muay Thai fighters on the roster. He is so good, that you can no longer call him a ‘boxer’ who supplements his boxing with Muay Thai. Listen to that Q&A he did before the event. Favorite fighter ever: Duran but he also says that he LOVES Muay Thai.

Looking at his style vs Till’s, it’s pretty obvious that, even though Till has done some local MT competition in his youth, Mas applies MT concepts much better - he actually uses elbows, knees and high kicks to win fights. Till fights more like a karate guy.

It's hilarious how so many people point to Masvidal vs. Cerrone and Masvidal vs. Till as examples of boxing beating MT, when in BOTH fights it was Masvidal fighting in a MT style and applying MT concepts (kick defence, caught kick counters, and well placed body kicks) to beat his opponents. Catching kicks then dragging the leg across to land free punches like he did against Till and Cerrone is a textbook MT technique, and the feints & stance switches that he was using against Till were straight out of the Nong-O Gaiyanghadao playbook as was the right body kick to right punch combo.

 
It's hilarious how so many people point to Masvidal vs. Cerrone and Masvidal vs. Till as examples of boxing beating MT, when in BOTH fights it was Masvidal fighting in a MT style and applying MT concepts (kick defence, caught kick counters, and well placed body kicks) to beat his opponents. Catching kicks then dragging the leg across to land free punches like he did against Till and Cerrone is a textbook MT technique, and the feints & stance switches that he was using against Till were straight out of the Nong-O Gaiyanghadao playbook as was the right body kick to right punch combo.



I really like seeing Masvidal work these MT techniques in MMA fights. I think it’s really interesting. Just basic stuff like teeping guys who are stepping in to punch, opening their upper body. Such a useful technique, and still, most MMA guys react like they’d never seen it.

This was actually a really dangerous fight for Mas, with Till being so big and strong and having a very hard left, so getting Till’s respect early was key. Mas’ feints were working like a charm, as Till is such a jumpy fighter. I have to say, even though I expected Masvidal to win, it was hardly guaranteed. I could see some stress in Masvidal’s body language too, even before the knockdown. He knew that Till could hurt him and it brought the best out in him.
 
Man, Nong-o is such a gangster LOL I’ll call him ‘No Love’ from now on..
 
I would think most fighters in the West would already have some boxing training before Muay Thai training.

Hard to find good Muay Thai training and fights for heavier fighters, the Muay Thai stars in Thailand are like 113 lbs.
 
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just curious, which rules most protect wrestlers? Strikes to back of head when wall-n-stallers have head in someones crotch ? Ground knee strikes and kicks ?

Jesus Christ and how many wrestle boxers have got their ass beat? MT has been more successful but all depends on their 2nd discipline. Also, rules favor wrestle boxers. They take away Muay Thai and BJJ weapons to protect wrestle boxers. Mostly to protect wrestlers. But it weakens MT as a whole which allow for arguments like this one.
 
Funny that there are still those art vs art discussions in 2019, especially using as examples fighters who blend different arts together to argue one is better than the other.

Darren Till barely threw any kicks and was relying on punching while Masvidal was throwing a lot of kicks and even catching kicks + counter. If without knowing their background you look at them two fighting it looks like the Muay Thai based fighter is actually Masvidal (who by the way said that Moo Thai is his favourite martial art only a day or two before that).

I'd also say, as you ask which one is most useful in MMA, that if you take a boxer who's never trained throwing or eating kicks, knees or elbows, it's very likely that fighter will get finished by low kicks, a head kick he didn't see coming or any of those other types of strikes. People don't just train Boxing for their striking in MMA, neither do they just Muay Thai, so this whole discussion is pretty stupid.
 
Lennox Lewis KO's any version of Ernesto Hoost, even under kickboxing rules

Boxing is superior

Every time a straight up boxer without Kickboxing training entered the ring for a Kickboxing match they got finished with kicks (low kicks or head kicks usually), just saying.
 
Boxing is GOAT and barely anyone in mma actually has an amateur boxing background. Kickfighting sports rarely throw body shots especially with good technique like in boxing
 
The gloves make an enormous difference. Take them away and Muay Thai would dominate on the feet. As it stands now though, a boxer who learns how to check kicks and mix it up has the advantage.
 
Rose and Mavidal are doing Muay Thai, though. The Diaz brothers literally lose fights because of leg kicks.
 
Why not both? If I wanted to fuck someone up standing I'd definitely want to know how to kick, defend kicks, do elbows, do knees, and clinch fight. But I'd also want the slick combinations and head movement of boxing.
 
There is a higher level of boxing present in mma than muay thai in my opinion. Actual god honest muay thai is pretty devastating.

 
It's hard to argue against Boxing when you see how much something as basic and seemingly rare as a good jab can dictate a fight and frustrate an opponent in MMA.

Aldo went undefeated for like 10 years because he had a good low kick. There is more boxing influence because boxing is more popular in the west. We dont really see the more tactical aspects of muay thai. Strategies like how to use elbows to disrupt and counter hand combinations
 
People make it seem like learning how to deal with kicks knees and elbows are some silly afterthought to being able to KO someone with the hands, when the reality is all those things are what allow for the KO to happen. I'd say it's just as crucial as learning TD defense.

Now if you just love the boxing aspect aesthetically that's fine, but OPs argument seems a little disingenuous considering the nature of MMA is to mix everything within the allowed ruleset.

This isn't an either/or type scenario, it is a matter of priorities. A fighter has a finite amount of time to train and as a consequence must focus on refining some techniques at the expense of others. It is beneficial for a fighter to become competent in both boxing and muay thai, but one will inevitably become the priority. Each have their advantages and disadvantages, so there isn't necessarily a clear answer to this.

Over the years I have seen a number of fans try to argue that boxing is ineffective in mma. That the techniques don't work and to train it would be either a waste of time and detrimental. Those individuals are wrong. I have seen other fans argue either explicitly or implicitly that Muay Thai is complete in and of itself and that a well trained MT fighter doesn't need boxing training. But as we have seen Boxing does have its advantages and there are certain vulnerabilities that a boxer can exploit when facing a purely trained MT fighter or kickboxer for that matter.

Overall real boxing training is actually rare in mma. Many mma gyms teach some form of Muay Thai and when it comes to boxing the coaches are often mma coaches or some form of kickboxing/MT coaches trying to teach boxing. They often have very little knowledge of what boxing actually is and what the correct techniques to coach are.

I see boxing training as a very neglected aspect of training in many mma fighters. There are a number of myths surrounding its effectiveness and a number of fighters seem to think that with MT/kickboxing alone that they can beat any boxing centric fighter. But that just isn't the case, a boxing centric fighter who becomes competent in the defensive aspects of MT/kickboxing can find a way to exploit the vulnerabilites of a pure MT/kickboxer.
 
just curious, which rules most protect wrestlers? Strikes to back of head when wall-n-stallers have head in someones crotch ? Ground knee strikes and kicks ?

Up kicks to downed oppponents, no knees on the ground/soccer kicks to the head (perfect counter after successful sprawl). No kicks to the kidneys (bjj guys would do this from the guard and it was really draining). Top control bias in the judging.

Of course wrestlers would benefit from allowing those things but there would also be more options to punish them for spamming/badly timed takedowns.
 
To examples:

Holly Holm (18 times world boxing champion) vs Valentina Shevchenko (10 times world Muay Thai champion)



Holly Holm vs Germaine de Randaime (another former multiple times world Muay Thai champion)

 
Boxing is GOAT and barely anyone in mma actually has an amateur boxing background. Kickfighting sports rarely throw body shots especially with good technique like in boxing
Why would you throw a body shot when you can clinch and knee. It's almost the same distance and you can generate consistent hard strikes with knees.
 
Masvidal has a pretty up right, striking stance. I don't think think it's as cut and dry as folk think. I think you need an amalgamation of striking skills. Leaning more towards boxing has its pros, but it means nothing if you're susceptible to kicks or TDs unless you're fighting another striker who has clear defensive holes.

The best striking is the style that works best against most styles. And it really depends on the fighter's other skills as a supplement as well as the approach to fighting in general. Just because you can piece up a fighter who has a deficit in a striking style that you have doesn't mean he will fight in that style, stay at range, or won't do anything to stop you from landing.
 
why not both? boxing for the fists MT for the legs and elbows.
 
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