BLM (burn, loot, murder) rioters now burning bibles.

Because man was given free will. To choose to love God, not a robot that was created to only be able to choose God. True love means a chosen one not a forced one.

Thus man's tendency for corruption was already instilled within him.

It's part of the design.

And man is already ruled by force. It is by force that you are a man in the first place, unless you recall choosing to be one.

Also, I dont believe your interpretation of "through Christ" is accurate. You don't have to believe in him being real to enter the kingdom of heaven, you just have to follow his teachings. That's what it means to go through him, IMHO.
 
Thus man's tendency for corruption was already instilled within him.

It's part of the design.

And man is already ruled by force. It is by force that you are a man in the first place, unless you recall choosing to be one.

Also, I dont believe your interpretation of "through Christ" is accurate. You don't have to believe in him being real to enter the kingdom of heaven, you just have to follow his teachings. That's what it means to go through him, IMHO.
That is a dangerous point of view because scripture says “for whoever BELIEVES in him will not perish but have eternal life.” You must believe that Jesus came to save you, not just agree with His teachings.

Edit: and no the propensity of sin was not instilled in man, it was a choice plain and simple and man chose sin.

Adam’s original sin was not eating a piece of fruit and God judging him, Adam wanted to make the rules of what was good/evil instead of trusting God.
 
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That is a dangerous point of view because scripture says “for whoever BELIEVES in him will not perish but have eternal life. You must believe that Jesus came to save you, not just agree with His teachings.

Could you not interpret that to mean believe in the merit of his teachings?

His teachings would be what leads man to salvation, if such a thing even exists or is possible, as Jesus himself is not present in the flesh to physically do so. You get there through following his way.

Seems utterly unreasonable to require one do anything in addition to being Christ- like to enter heaven.
 
Thus man's tendency for corruption was already instilled within him.

It's part of the

And man is already ruled by force. It is by force that you are a man in the first place, unless you recall choosing to be one.

Also, I dont believe your interpretation of "through Christ" is accurate. You don't have to believe in him being real to enter the kingdom of heaven, you just have to follow his teachings. That's what it means to go through him, IMHO.
Could you not interpret that to mean believe in the merit of his teachings?

His teachings would be what leads man to salvation, if such a thing even exists or is possible, as Jesus himself is not present in the flesh to physically do so. You get there through following his way.

Seems utterly unreasonable to require one do anything in addition to being Christ- like to enter heaven.

That’s not salvation though. The Bible specifically states that good works cannot get you into heaven because nothing we can do is acceptable as a sacrifice for our sin. Christ lived a perfect life as a man (and God) and died as a sacrifice for all sin past and present and if you believe in that sacrifice you are saved. If you just follow His teachings, you are relying on yourself and not on Christ.

Now, a true believer in Christ’s sacrifice will want to follow His teachings so there’s that.

Edit: to truly believe is to repent of your sins (meaning you recognize the magnitude of your sin compared to a perfect and holy God, and ask that He come into your life and begin to transform you into a more Christ like person). Good works will come out of trusting in Christ, but not for the sake of doing good, but because you are trusting that Christ died for you and He knows what’s best for your life.
 
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You mean the writers of the FOUR orthodox gospels... as opposed to the dozens of apochrophal gospels... and remind me again how that distinction got made...?

Also, while you are at it, where is the doctrine of Jesus' full humanity and full divinity contained LITERALLY in scripture? For that matter, where is the doctrine of the Trinity contained LITERALLY in scripture? If these things are "self evident" from scripture-- and every man can read and interpret scripture for himself and reach these conclusions-- why were there many influential heresies that the early Church had to officially suppress and censor? Why did an authoritative interpretation of these doctrines need to be reached by councils of bishops?

For that matter, where is the "doctrine" of "sola scriptura" contained... in scripture, lol?

It must be in the same book that has your Republican healthcare plan to protect pre-existing conditions!

Calling Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John the "orthodox gospels" is more anachronism from you in your attempt to make a theological point. There was no orthodoxy in the 1st or 2nd centuries.

You're right that the hypostatoc union and the trinity aren't taught in scripture, at least not clearly. Even if they're true though, many Catholic teachings are false, so I don't see what point you're trying to make with these strawmen. Even if the hypostatic union and trinity are true, this doesn't mean the RCC's claims about apostolic succession are true. A broken clock is right twice a day. To call the conclusions reached at church councils "authoritative" is to beg the question.
 
Calling Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John the "orthodox gospels" is more anachronism from you in your attempt to make a theological point. There was no orthodoxy in the 1st or 2nd centuries.
Right! And this is exactly why today's "Bible believing" Christians (ie. Biblical literalists/ fundamentalists) have no leg to stand on when they say they are returning to the "fundamentals" of Christianity-- and especially when they insult the traditional teachings of Catholicism/ Orthodoxy. They fail to see that the Bible that they quote as their source of absolute truth IS, precisely, the product of Catholic/ Orthodox tradition. It simply would not exist in anything like the form it does except for Catholic/ Orthodox tradition. (Hence, my statement, the Bible is a Catholic book.) "Bible believing" fundamentalists/ literalists are the ones whose entire world view is based on anachronism. The doctrines they believe (full humanity and divinity, Trinity, virgin birth, etc.) and the document based on which they believe them (the Bible) simply cannot be divorced from the historical processes and traditions that created them.

Just about the only doctrine that Biblical fundamentalists believe that isn't a product of Catholic tradition is sola scriptura-- which ironically, is found nowhere in the Bible, and which the earliest Christians certainly did not believe (how can you believe in "Scripture alone" before there is "Scripture," lol).

There is also the reality that many of the earliest Christian fathers, such as Origen, were anything but scriptural literalists and introduced symbolic interpretations of many passages, but that is another point.

You're right that the hypostatoc union and the trinity aren't taught in scripture, at least not clearly. Even if they're true though, many Catholic teachings are false, so I don't see what point you're trying to make with these strawmen. Even if the hypostatic union and trinity are true, this doesn't mean the RCC's claims about apostolic succession are true. A broken clock is right twice a day. To call the conclusions reached at church councils "authoritative" is to beg the question.
Well, who are you (or who is any 18-21th century person) to say that finding X of early Church tradition is authoritative and true, but finding Y is not? The passages that point to apostolic succession and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist are, in fact, more clear, less ambiguous, and less internally contradicted than some of the passages that point to Jesus' full humanity and full divinity and the Trinity, for example. The idea that you, a person in the 21st century, using your Bible-- which is, once again a product of Catholic/ Orthodox tradition-- can get closer to the "original" spirit of Christianity than the early Church fathers living in the second and third centuries is nothing but ignorance. At best...
 
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This is interesting, our system of government a federal constitutional republic with representative democracy. I'm sure some of our laws were based on Christian teachings like Jesus' sanctioning of Secularism with his "Render unto Cesar" but a great deal of our government was based on Enlightenment thinkers such as Locke, Montesquieu, Rosseau, Volitaire. Not sure why you didn't mention them when talking about our "entire system of government".

Western Philosophy's root beliefs come from the teachings of Christianity. Again, not a difficult principle to understand.
 
LMAO this coming from a guy who uses TDS for a gimmick.

Yes. It's my "gimmick". The only people talking about Trump in a thread that is once again, shockingly not about Trump are people who don't like Trump. That is somehow my fault. Excellent, 3D chess level logic.
 
Right! And this is exactly why today's "Bible believing" Christians (ie. Biblical literalists/ fundamentalists) have no leg to stand on when they say they are returning to the "fundamentals" of Christianity-- and especially when they insult the traditional teachings of Catholicism/ Orthodoxy. They fail to see that the Bible that they quote as their source of absolute truth IS, precisely, the product of Catholic/ Orthodox tradition. It simply would not exist in anything like the form it does except for Catholic/ Orthodox tradition. (Hence, my statement, the Bible is a Catholic book.) "Bible believing" fundamentalists/ literalists are the ones whose entire world view is based on anachronism. The doctrines they believe (full humanity and divinity, Trinity, virgin birth, etc.) and the document based on which they believe them (the Bible) simply cannot be divorced from the historical processes and traditions that created them.

Just about the only doctrine that Biblical fundamentalists believe that isn't a product of Catholic tradition is sola scriptura-- which ironically, is found nowhere in the Bible, and which the earliest Christians certainly did not believe (how can you believe in "Scripture alone" before there is "Scripture," lol).

There is also the reality that many of the earliest Christian fathers, such as Origen, were anything but scriptural literalists and introduced symbolic interpretations of many passages, but that is another point.


Well, who are you (or who is any 18-21th century person) to say that finding X of early Church tradition is authoritative and true, but finding Y is not? The passages that point to apostolic succession and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist are, in fact, more clear, less ambiguous, and less internally contradicted than some of the passages that point to Jesus' full humanity and full divinity and the Trinity, for example. The idea that you, a person in the 21st century, using your Bible-- which is, once again a product of Catholic/ Orthodox tradition-- can get closer to the "original" spirit of Christianity than the early Church fathers living in the second and third centuries is nothing but ignorance. At best...

Not every devout Christian believes in every orthodox doctrine. Not every Christian believes that every word (or even every book) in what became known as the the NT canon is inspired. I certainly don't.

Origen quoted gospels and epistles that weren't at the time weren't known as "New Testament canon" (as did Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clement...). To take different books and say they together constitute a "Catholic" book, when the individual books existed long before there was the Roman Catholic Church as we know it, is nonsensical. The bishops who voted at church councils didn't write the Gospels or epistles, nor did they even know the people who did.

Who am I to make sense of the Gospels, epistles, and Revelation? A fallible human, just like everyone who voted at every church council.
 
Did you infer all of this based on the OP's first post? You may have expounded upon this idea just a little bit more than what the OP gave us to go on.

So... you want me to speak for someone else now? Why don't you ask OP?



So are they BLM or antifa? X ... rioters are now burning bibles. So what? If it's done legally then It's a form of symbolic speech.

No shit? Symbolic speech ABOUT WHAT? Because this obviously has nothing to do with George Floyd. So they're making a symbolic gesture about Black Lives.... by burning Bibles? Sure thing, guy.


ANTIFA ideology may entail marxist like violent revolutionary means. I agree they don't give a damn about black people.

And the burning of Bibles is Marxist ideology. That was the point. That is the symbolism. It has nothing to do with anything else.



Again..As oppose to burning buildings, looting, murder?

Again, why are you demanding that I speak for someone else?
 
Yes. It's my "gimmick". The only people talking about Trump in a thread that is once again, shockingly not about Trump are people who don't like Trump. That is somehow my fault. Excellent, 3D chess level logic.

Yes the people talking about how trump will get re-elected again cause of situations like this are definitely trump haters, you got me there bud. There are no trump supporters here in this thread talking about trump as well. Like I said your TDS gimmick is lame
 
Yes the people talking about how trump will get re-elected again cause of situations like this are definitely trump haters, you got me there bud. There are no trump supporters here in this thread talking about trump as well. Like I said your TDS gimmick is lame

The very first person to bring up Trump in this thread was the very first person I addressed, and it's what we're talking about. Solid argument based in logic and facts, though...
 
Western Philosophy's root beliefs come from the teachings of Christianity. Again, not a difficult principle to understand.

Which ones specifically that apply to our Federal Constitutional Republic.
 
At least you finally admitted he is your President.
Of course, worst GDP drop in years, record low polling on USA going in the right direction, unchecked looting and riots, Trump's America
 
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