bjj vs wrestling?

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

I wrestled long ago, have done no-gi for 2 years, and just recently started taking a wrestling class at a university (PE). Here's what I notice going back:

Takedowns are in a different league. I've never been taken down in no-gi competition (well, 4 tournaments), but the college wrestlers school me. But less than they did a few weeks ago. Every time I do takedowns, I remember more of what I once knew, and even the beginners in the class have progressed a lot. It will help.

Pace is totally different. Call it spazzing if you like, but a wrestler will make you work a lot harder than your average BJJ guy in class. I have a decent top game in BJJ, but I have to work to hold college wrestlers down, even from a dominant position. They don't rest.

In fact, pace is the biggest difference I've noted between class rolls and competition; wrestling will get you used to a faster pace that you may need in the latter (or MMA competition).

This man speaks the truth.

 

[Chonbody]

Judo, ftw.

 

[TheHighlander]

I train primarily no-gi and work out with a lot of wrestlers. Take the wrestling class, it can only help you.

MMA - wrestling is probably the most-used skill set out there.

BJJ - quality of takedowns and takedown defense isn't high (in general), so anything that gives you an edge is worth it. It's nice to be able to choose between takedown and guard pull, instead of having only one choice.

Submission wrestling - similar to BJJ but usually more wreslters, particularly at lower skill levels.

 

[FIGHTING TALK]

Doing wrestling for 2-3 months you will find yourself constantly going to the top and youre top game will improve no end. Good bjj guys with no wrestling ability usually stay on the bottom looking for submissions and often times get there guard passed as a result. Whereas grapplers with good wrestling can look for submissions but can also get out from the bottom which comes in very handy in MMA to avoid the dreaded gnp.

 

[itlnheat]

As most already said, do it. Its good for takedowns and different types of control.

 

[FIGHTING TALK]

damn. i bet marcelo, jacare, roger are all kicking themselves. theyll never be dominant grapplers because you need wrestling as your base.

Actually Jacare does have judo and wrestling as a very strong base. His judo is incredible and his wrestling is awesome too. You must be able to see the difference between him and someone like Roger in their approach to the stand-up element of bjj and no-gi, his takedowns are not what you would consider bjj takedowns but more resemble freestyle, i think.

 

[armtriangle]

Actually Jacare does have judo and wrestling as a very strong base. His judo is incredible and his wrestling is awesome too. You must be able to see the difference between him and someone like Roger in their approach to the stand-up element of bjj and no-gi, his takedowns are not what you would consider bjj takedowns but more resemble freestyle, i think.

jacare has a judo background, not a wrestling one though, as far as i know. totally different.

poster said you cant be a dominant grappler without wrestling as a base. i said that statement is ridicuous, which it is. amazingly, some one else agreed and thought that one couldnt become a dominant grappler without a base in wrestling. again, totally assanine.

a base is a foundation from which you grow other skills. even if jacare uses wrestling style takedowns, that doesnt make his base wrestling. btw, that ankle pick he uses all the time is very common in judo.

IMO having wrestling as a base will help you get to a certain level faster, but to be truly elite, it is something to be overcome, not relied upon. i think it starts to hinder growth at a certain point. old habits die hard. even though i have been doing submission grappling and bjj for 10+ years, i still do all the stupid wrestler mistakes when the pace picks up (i have muscle memory telling me to belly out from when i was 5 years old).

 

[PhillyD45]

I made the wrestling quote.

I hear what you are saying about the muscle memory problem Armtriangle. Sometimes I "sit out" at inopportune times because I know I can but I will get caught from time to time and submitted or pretty close to it.That is a mental error more than anything though.

I still stand by the comment. To be an absolutley DOMINANT grappler you MUST know how to wrestle.
The ability to control another persons body and how to shift your weight to feel like a "ton of bricks". How to do explosive takedowns, complete reverses and if possible suplexes. Keep in mind it is the bassis of all the grappling arts.

If wrestling is not in your game you will never be on top unless you are a prodigy at your art (eg. Nog, Silva)

Maybe in a BJJ tourney with BJJ rules you don't need it.

But in no-gi it is an ENORMOUS advantage. Trying to pull guard in no-gi is a pretty tough thing to do compared to a single or double leg take down that is second nature.

I know MMA isn't quite grappling but a large majority of the top guys/champs have a wresling basis and moved to another art for submissions. The 2 arts together made a complete grappler for the most part with wrestling as the base.