Bjj vs gjj

[Estebanantonio]

good to see you back.

another epic 30 pages thread.

I trained in the clinch stuff vs resisting opponent wearing gloves. BUT never with holding weapon.

I guess the self defense stuff is boring and is taught at white belt level.

By the time you get to blue belt, you just not interested in it unless you train for a mma fight.

Thanks,

I've been reading the threads just not posting lately.

I find just the opposite of being board but kind of fascinated because training the techniques with striking envolved really exposes loose and sloppy control and unrealistic type techniques for a fight.

I haven't done any of the weapon defense stuff yet, I think it will be interesting to learn but I hope I would never have to test it.

 

[Estebanantonio]

Each JJ Academy should make space and offer a program for guys that just want to learn to defend themselves.

Otherwise, your school is just for competition studs and rejecting the above type of students would just force them to train in those dreadfull self defense school

I am all for getting a training partner to put some gloves on and he attacks while you only use JJ to defend and defeat..it is all good fun.

Now the problem once you get someone that got JJ skills attacking you, it is not only striking attacks you got to deal with but JJ stuff as well, so it just end being some kind of MMA training.
It is no longer self defense.

It is still self defense training. In the GJJ system after the combatives the training shifts from defending against unskilled to defense against skilled opponents. I think it does seem alot like mma except that your focus is more on learning to defend and defeat a skilled striking opponent with jiu-jitsu rather than striking. Strikes are used more or less to distract or create an opportunity to use jiu-jitsu ie: the stomp kick or striking from the mount to cause them to turn over or expose an arm or whatever.

 

[Neuro]

We actually learn how to defend ourselves from attacks with Claymore mines and bacon.

Our school is hardcore.

hahahahahahahah claymore

 

[lechien]

Thanks,

I've been reading the threads just not posting lately.

I find just the opposite of being board but kind of fascinated because training the techniques with striking envolved really exposes loose and sloppy control and unrealistic type techniques for a fight.

I haven't done any of the weapon defense stuff yet, I think it will be interesting to learn but I hope I would never have to test it.

Cool.

Let me define of BJJ self defense:
1 partner put some gloves on (I suggest 16 ounces for safety), then he attacks while I use JJ to defend and defeat.

It is all good fun at blue belt level but once you get to purple belt, I found out that it is just turned out to be a MMA training.

Even at blue belt level, the attacker already knows how to defend basic BJJ strategies like TKD, clinch and you need to develop/train skills that we will not required in a street fight.

I had a brown belt putting gloves on and he put a beating on me. No matter what I did, he countered it due to his knowledge of BJJ.

But then what can I do, ask a white belt to put some gloves on? It would be too easy.

My conclusion is to keep it part of the training especially at white and blue belt level.

Do not let real beginners start on such training at first because they would just rely of strength and basics insticts as they have NOT develop basics BJJ training.

 

[lechien]

It is still self defense training. In the GJJ system after the combatives the training shifts from defending against unskilled to defense against skilled opponents. I think it does seem alot like mma except that your focus is more on learning to defend and defeat a skilled striking opponent with jiu-jitsu rather than striking. Strikes are used more or less to distract or create an opportunity to use jiu-jitsu ie: the stomp kick or striking from the mount to cause them to turn over or expose an arm or whatever.

See my comments on the above post regarding advanced BJJ training.

I am actually suprised to read about this post.

"I think it does seem alot like mma except that your focus is more on learning to defend and defeat a skilled striking opponent with jiu-jitsu rather than striking."

Interesting.

Edit: once you train to defeat someone that use strikes and any form of grappling (including BJJ), I consider it a MMA training. I understand that GJJ had different views but I still feel it is benefitial on all parties to differiente the training. I found it counter productive to mix both.

 

[lechien]

Not bored just asking? Not effective OK?

The mindset is what is different and that you practice them with and without striking envolved. Also they do address weapons and standing techniques. After the combatives you do the standard type rolling in addition to the fight simulation sparring. Fight simulation sparring is basically one guy puts on boxing gloves and the other guy defends with jiu-jitsu starting from the feet.

I do recommend the above to anyone training BJJ, if it is not part of your existing program.

Just ask your instructor if you can do it after open mats, just get a couple of guys and have fun.

 

[Supereem]

Why are the GJJ guys all bitches?

 

[Estebanantonio]

See my comments on the above post regarding advanced BJJ training.

I am actually suprised to read about this post.

"I think it does seem alot like mma except that your focus is more on learning to defend and defeat a skilled striking opponent with jiu-jitsu rather than striking."

Interesting.

Edit: once you train to defeat someone that use strikes and any form of grappling (including BJJ), I consider it a MMA training. I understand that GJJ had different views but I still feel it is benefitial on all parties to differiente the training. I found it counter productive to mix both.

The training is not done with striking all the time. They make it clear though that it is important that when drilling your opponent does add striking durring some of your drilling. Also that you put on the gloves and spar atleast once a week.

 

[Estebanantonio]

Cool.

Let me define of BJJ self defense:
1 partner put some gloves on (I suggest 16 ounces for safety), then he attacks while I use JJ to defend and defeat.

It is all good fun at blue belt level but once you get to purple belt, I found out that it is just turned out to be a MMA training.

Even at blue belt level, the attacker already knows how to defend basic BJJ strategies like TKD, clinch and you need to develop/train skills that we will not required in a street fight.

I had a brown belt putting gloves on and he put a beating on me. No matter what I did, he countered it due to his knowledge of BJJ.

But then what can I do, ask a white belt to put some gloves on? It would be too easy.

These issues are addressed within the curiculum. And it is very important that you do have training partners who can bring you to failor in your technique. As far as the more experienced person he needs to be a good training partner and allow you to learn not just smash you.[/COLOR]

My conclusion is to keep it part of the training especially at white and blue belt level.

Do not let real beginners start on such training at first because they would just rely of strength and basics insticts as they have NOT develop basics BJJ training.[/QUOTE]

This is why they have the curiculum set up the way they do starting with the combatives.

 

[NateTx4112]

What is the point of this thread? You trying to convince bjj guys that gjj is great is like arguing religion. No matter what you say or what points you try to make the other side is going to think you are a moron and they are right.

 

[Estebanantonio]

What is the point of this thread? You trying to convince bjj guys that gjj is great is like arguing religion. No matter what you say or what points you try to make the other side is going to think you are a moron and they are right.

Yeah I would agree with what you said. The point of the thread is to point out the differences between GJJ as taught by the Gracie Academy and what I have experienced in my own BJJ training prior to training GJJ. Also to educate the average sherdogger who thinks the combatives is all there is to training GJJ.

Actually I believe that BJJ and GJJ are the same thing for the most part except BJJ clubs don't train in those areas I have discussed. In addition to the defensive mindset philosophy and liniar curiculum that is put forth by the Gracie Academy.

 

[Cash Bill 52]

hey what exactly is grossuda. google didn't seem to help

I am probably spelling it wrong. It basically means "brutal/monster/beast" in Portuguese. They are techniques that are not technical but you still tap.

Dave Terrell has a move called a "Pez dispenser" Brutally painful...

I am not even sure if it is Portuguese.

 

[keynote]

Some BJJ clubs teach the traditional techniques, just as GJJ schools teach "sports" positions.

It's not near as polarized as people like to make it. I'm at a Pedro Sauer school, learning Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, but you'd be retarded if you thought we didn't know what X-guard is or anything else like that, just as you'd be retarded for thinking a trained grappler can't defend themselves.

 

[Estebanantonio]

Some BJJ clubs teach the traditional techniques, just as GJJ schools teach "sports" positions.

It's not near as polarized as people like to make it. I'm at a Pedro Sauer school, learning Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, but you'd be retarded if you thought we didn't know what X-guard is or anything else like that, just as you'd be retarded for thinking a trained grappler can't defend themselves.

I do generally agree. Just from my experience with bjj we never did any drills were we had to deal with striking. Personally I believe by drilling technique with and without your partner trying to strike you it gives you a good idea of what will work in a fight and also builds confidence in your self defense skills. As does doing the fight simulation drills.

Please guy's don't get me wrong for me and my training partners we still love to "roll" the "regular way" without the strikes. We do make sure though when drilling technique that we do some reps with the striking and do the fight simulation drills at least once a week.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I train at GB, we do not drill nor simulate fighting scenarios, I sure would like the drilling with someone trying to punch my face off while Im trying to defend my self with jiu jitsu... I even talked to my instructor about it, that it would be fun and it could be very good for real life scenarios, he told me that thas mma and we are training jiu jitsu... I didnt like that, but hell, I love the training, the environment and the way he teaches jiu jitsu, so.. the fuck with gloves....

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

WIN!

 

[iwannabeadored]

gjj and bjj

break down like this-

bjj focuses entirely on the sport aspect. lots of sweeps, postions,points.

gjj still devotes time to the self defense aspect. How to escape a headlock, how to clinch against an attacker.

 

[Estebanantonio]

gjj and bjj

break down like this-

bjj focuses entirely on the sport aspect. lots of sweeps, postions,points.

gjj still devotes time to the self defense aspect. How to escape a headlock, how to clinch against an attacker.

I generally agree except I would take it a bit further and say GJJ's no1 priority is self defense and the sport aspect is a by product. BJJ's priority is sport and self defense is a it's by product. GJJ incorporates defending against striking within the art. Where as at most BJJ clubs that is ussually taught or handed in the mma training. Also the mindset of defense first and energy conservation that is taught as part of the GJJ philosophy doesn't lend it's self well to sportive type jiu-jitsu.

 

[gannas]

I do generally agree. Just from my experience with bjj we never did any drills were we had to deal with striking. Personally I believe by drilling technique with and without your partner trying to strike you it gives you a good idea of what will work in a fight and also builds confidence in your self defense skills. As does doing the fight simulation drills.

Please guy's don't get me wrong for me and my training partners we still love to "roll" the "regular way" without the strikes. We do make sure though when drilling technique that we do some reps with the striking and do the fight simulation drills at least once a week.

To simulate a fight scenario you have to throw in REAL world techniques like biting, eye gouging, scratching and headbutting. I've trained the GJJ self defense escapes but nothing will simulate a fight better than two guys putting gloves on and adding punches, kicks, elbows and headbutts in.

 

[Estebanantonio]

WIN!

Are you saying this thread opened a can of worms? If so why I don't get it. Please explane.