BJJ Etiquette: Standing Up?

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Einarr

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So (bullet-points for the ADHD generation :wink:) :
>we've started on our knees
>I've ended up in a sitting-guard/butterfly/spider-guard/etc.
>my partner has not really kept enough pressure on me to keep me from standing or I've actively created distance to stand
>so I technical stand-up
>from there I grip up and throw him
> secure side control.

Would this be considered bad etiquette in BJJ training? Every time I stand up the other guy's reaction seems to be "huh?", but surely if they're not pressuring me enough to keep me down then the natural reaction would be for me to stand (certainly in a self-defense situation, and it would be my personal reaction in a tournament setting too)? If there is enough mat space to stand I don't see what the issue is.

Example from a while ago: Partner breaks my grips and stands, retreats slighty giving me ample space to stand so I technical stand up, he seems a little confused by my standing, I take a sleeve and collar grip, throw him with Uchi Mata, secure side control; he seems a little butthurt about it, frowning as if I'd done some dickish move but doesn't say anything. It felt a bit like breaking some unwritten rule of sparring.

Any thoughts?
 
when you say that you stand up, grip up and throw him, is he still on his knees or he is standing as well?
 
I'd honestly like to know what others think because this often happens to me as well. They don't pressure and I stand and try to get to side. I assume when they do it to me I just attempt open guard /De La Riva / etc.

I suck at take downs so if they stood up as well i'd pull/butt scoot
 
lechien said:
when you say that you stand up, grip up and throw him, is he still on his knees or he is standing as well?
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Yes, if I'm sat on my butt and he has stood up but isn't putting much pressure on keeping me down then I stand up too (rather than chase him around butt-scooting).
 
When guys stand up with me I throw a jab/cross combo and shoot in for a double, just kidding.

Yes, it would be considered bad etiquette. If you are playing guard it is expected that you will work guard while the other guy is working the pass. Of course you can use any takedown from the knees that you please.
 
Einarr said:
Yes, if I'm sat on my butt and he has stood up but isn't putting much pressure on keeping me down then I stand up too (rather than chase him around butt-scooting).
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if he stands up, then it is fine.

if he still on his knees, then I think it is poor etiquette (also create bad habits and bad techniques).

But yeah, I have seen my share of moments where we both stand up and sudenlly you get the awkward look that it is "too dangerous" and it is better to go back to the sagefy of the mats.

Even if you are the only ones on the mats.
 
Hmm I've had a similar experince....

I'm a Judo player, so naturally I would like to start standing, but given the lack of space at my BJJ gym. Not to mention the lack of "break falling" skills some of my teamates have this rarely happens.

Any ways I have these two teammates, really nice guys, but they both do this "thing" that irks me. Sometimes when starting a roll I go straight to sitting in butterfly guard position. When I do this, they both stand up as fast as they can and bull rush me, one of them even tries to o-soto-gari me while doing this. I have no problem with standing up after you have entered someones guard in order to break/pass, but this just seems kind of cheap. Then again both these guys also go for submissions that are illegal, and/or above their belt level (we are all blues) so yeah...
 
To avoid the confusion you should probably just start the session from the standing position. If you start on the ground, one on butt/other on knees, or both on knees, people could think that takedowns are out of play.
 
MacM said:
Yes, it would be considered bad etiquette. If you are playing guard it is expected that you will work guard while the other guy is working the pass. Of course you can use any takedown from the knees that you please.
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why would it considered by etiquette?

Ts plays guard but his oppenent stands up and disengage.

Ts got 3 options:

1 - Buttscoot.

2 - Go back on his knees and attempt a takedown on a standing opponent. It is way harder to attempt chasing a takedown on a standing opponent while you are on your knees. It is also dangerous because he could just tackle you down back while you are on his knees.

3 - Stand up and chase his opponent.

IMO, it is the responsibilty for the top guy to attempt to pass, he is not to dis-engage or you can get call for it in BJJ competition.
 
Oddly enough, I've found that most places:

1. It's bad etiquette if you stand up and start playing stand up, as in, Judo type stand up with grip fighting etc.

2. If you transition directly to a single or double leg, it's not considered bad etiquette.

I find this odd, I think it's because most people aren't super comfortable in stand-up, so they don't want to take big falls, and also there is the injury factor to consider if you're in a crowded gym.

But frankly most BJJ rolls should start standing IMO. It's how matches start, you can always pull guard immediately if you want and make it a pure ground thing anyway if you like.
 
Believe me, I think this behavior is stupid. You can't get much dumber than wrestling on your knees.

His options were to stay on his butt in the guard position and wait for his partner to work to pass or stand up. Once he stood up they both should have stopped and dropped back down to their knees. Not doing so could be confusing to one or both partners and the lack of understanding could increase the chance of someone getting hurt.
 
MacM said:
Believe me, I think this behavior is stupid. You can't get much dumber than wrestling on your knees.

His options were to stay on his butt in the guard position and wait for his partner to work to pass or stand up. Once he stood up they both should have stopped and dropped back down to their knees. Not doing so could be confusing to one or both partners and the lack of understanding could increase the chance of someone getting hurt.
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:icon_neut

wat?
 
MacM said:
When guys stand up with me I throw a jab/cross combo and shoot in for a double, just kidding.

Yes, it would be considered bad etiquette. If you are playing guard it is expected that you will work guard while the other guy is working the pass. Of course you can use any takedown from the knees that you please.
Click to expand...

Surely leaving your partner enough space/not pressuring enough for them to be able to stand is in itself a failure at guard-passing? (Whether that's still bad etiquette on my part for not "playing along" is really what I'm wondering.)
 
Yes, you guys were playing a game. The game did not include takedowns. If it did you would have just started the game standing. You used a takedown in the game, which is bad etiquette.
 
MacM said:
Yes, you guys were playing a game. The game did not include takedowns. If it did you would have just started the game standing. You used a takedown in the game, which is bad etiquette.
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no, its not
 
MacM said:
Yes, you guys were playing a game. The game did not include takedowns. If it did you would have just started the game standing. You used a takedown in the game, which is bad etiquette.
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I disagree, but I guess it depends on the academy atmosphere. We start sitting but many times we have both scrambled and played stand-up.

Of course, a lot of times it depends on mat space, but it's never frowned upon to play judo. That's sort of ridiculous IMO.
 
For me I always ask the guy if he wants us to start standing. Meaning we're both going for takedowns.

If not, then whoever sits down first plays guard and the other person tries to pass. Unless the other guy sits down then you should stay down and work sweeps.

What you're describing would be considered poor etiquette at all the gyms I've been to.
 
MacM said:
Believe me, I think this behavior is stupid. You can't get much dumber than wrestling on your knees.

His options were to stay on his butt in the guard position and wait for his partner to work to pass or stand up. Once he stood up they both should have stopped and dropped back down to their knees. Not doing so could be confusing to one or both partners and the lack of understanding could increase the chance of someone getting hurt.
Click to expand...

what?


so you are saying that ts option is to stand up if his opponent disengage by standing up and then they both agree to go back on their knees.

it is like an inverted version of the UFC!
 
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