BJJ Etiquette: Standing Up?

[MacM**]

If the etiquette involves playing stand up after both players stand up after a ground start that is fine, the rules you play by can be whatever your school wants it to be. There should be no confusion though. You do not want someone hitting a takedown against someone who is unprepared for that act.

 

[MacM**]

what?


so you are saying that ts option is to stand up if his opponent disengage by standing up and then they both agree to go back on their knees.

it is like an inverted version of the UFC!

Of course his best option would be to stay in his guard position and wait for the other guy to pass. He could have gone to his knees too and the other guy should have dropped to his knees. If he went to his knees and the other guy stayed standing and bull rushed him over, that would be bad etiquette for the other guy.

 

[lechien]

If I kicked you in the nuts while we were standing would it be bad etiquette, just kidding.

Why is it not? Please explain. They started on the ground.

if you stand up from a knee start in JJ, it is fair go for a takedown/throw. you choose to put yourself in that situation my friend.

it is not like someone gonna come out and rescue you by yelling "no stand up training in allowed".

As long as you dont kick and land on higher belts.

 

[MacM**]

For me I always ask the guy if he wants us to start standing. Meaning we're both going for takedowns.

If not, then whoever sits down first plays guard and the other person tries to pass. Unless the other guy sits down then you should stay down and work sweeps.

What you're describing would be considered poor etiquette at all the gyms I've been to.

I agree. It's seems to be that the player who considers himself better will differ to the other person. If one guy is on his knees then I will just sit and play guard. Someone has to just sit and play guard or you get some awesome knee wrestling.

 

[lechien]

Of course his best option would be to stay in his guard position and wait for the other guy to pass. He could have gone to his knees too and the other guy should have dropped to his knees. If he went to his knees and the other guy stayed standing and bull rushed him over, that would be bad etiquette for the other guy.

I dont think it is the best option.
There is a good reason why he stood and disengage.
He wants to run aroung your open guard.
He actually hoping that you go back on your knees as it would be just easier to run around to take your back.
Once he stands up and disengage, that is your queue for turning your passive guard game into an agressive takedown game (unless you are into butscooting him around the mats).

 

[MacM**]

if you stand up from a knee start in JJ, it is fair go for a takedown/throw. you choose to put yourself in that situation my friend.

it is not like someone gonna come out and rescue you by yelling "no stand up training in allowed".

As long as you dont kick and land on higher belts.

Maybe, maybe not. I just want to avoid any confusion that could lead to someone getting injured. If I think they are confused about whether I can initiate a takedown or not I would not try to take them down and risk injury.

 

[Commissar]

Standing up to pass guard, even when you start on your knees, is (should be?) perfectly fine.

Passing from standing is a perfectly legitimate way to attack the guard; disallowing this eliminates a person from training a very effective way to pass guard, and it doesn't allow the guard player from training and using guard against someone that is standing (DLR, RDLR, spider, etc).

If you both start on your knees and you both stand up, especially if there is not enough mat space available or if one/both of the competitors are not competent in takedowns, it's customary to restart from the knees.

 

[littleone]

Regarding that type of etiquette, anytime you get up I think it's okay. It shouldn't be your main prerogative however anytime you come off the ground to put someone else on their back, that's a sweep or reversal.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Where I train if there's a stand up, the dude formerly on top has to play guard.

Standing up is essential if you ever want to fight, its best if you reward it IMO.

 

[Leify]

I'm a Judo player, so naturally I would like to start standing, but given the lack of space at my BJJ gym. Not to mention the lack of "break falling" skills some of my teamates have this rarely happens.

This exactly. If I haven't seen them break fall with my own eyes, or I don't know they regularly go to our judo class, it's either the double/single leg or sumi gaeshi.

 

[RapeChokeBDSM**]

I think its only bad etiquette if there's not much mat space to work with and you have to worry about bumping into people. And also the culture at the place you're training is of primary importance. In other words, you should be asking the teacher, not people on a message board.

Also, the guy who was butthurt, is a weekend warrior b**ch.

 

[Kid Sampson]

This exactly. If I haven't seen them break fall with my own eyes, or I don't know they regularly go to our judo class, it's either the double/single leg or sumi gaeshi.

I'll do trips, foot sweeps, and also "shoot" but unless they are purple or above, that is it.

Last summer I went to a "in house" tournament at a Paragon sister school. First match dude does a sloppy shot, and I counter with sumi-gaeshi. As he was going over, he posted his right arm in order to try to stop the fall and severely dislocated his elbow. I won the match, but the dude fucked up his arm.


I felt kinda down about that for a while, but like my Judo coach told me it's not my fault his coaches didn't teach him how to fall.

 

[fry_ed]

1. The TS says...

>we've started on our knees
>I've ended up in a sitting-guard/butterfly/spider-guard/etc.
>my partner has not really kept enough pressure on me to keep me from standing or I've actively created distance to stand
>so I technical stand-up
>from there I grip up and throw him
> secure side control.

2. Someone else says...

Any ways I have these two teammates, really nice guys, but they both do this "thing" that irks me. Sometimes when starting a roll I go straight to sitting in butterfly guard position. When I do this, they both stand up as fast as they can and bull rush me, one of them even tries to o-soto-gari me while doing this. I have no problem with standing up after you have entered someones guard in order to break/pass, but this just seems kind of cheap. Then again both these guys also go for submissions that are illegal, and/or above their belt level (we are all blues) so yeah...

3. And someone else says...

I'd honestly like to know what others think because this often happens to me as well. They don't pressure and I stand and try to get to side. I assume when they do it to me I just attempt open guard /De La Riva / etc.

I suck at take downs so if they stood up as well i'd pull/butt scoot

1. TS: What you say is usually OK. It is one of the grey areas of bjj though, and what Ice 9 Cobra says is sometimes the rule: namely, the guy formerly on top would usually pull guard. This rewards the person who was able to get to his feet without the need for any actual stand-up fighting.

2. Totally OK, and totally different situation than the OP.

3. Totally different situation than #1 or #2. The situation: slap hands while on the knees, then immediately stand and run around them before they have a chance to even sit back? I would say no, this is NOT OK. You should wait until they sit (i.e. pull guard from the knees).

 

[Thrawn33]

I see this "no standup due to crowded mat space" frequently.

Can someone explain what constitutes a crowded mat? (Done Judo randori with close to 30 on the mats at the same time with no space issues...)

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

30 people on a thousand foot mat is different than thirty people on a five hundred foot mat. Obviously the issue with people on the mat comes down to mat space, not that you're on a mat.

I don't understand you question.

 

[Bleep]

If I do a technical stand-up, I usually muck around with fake shots etc to see what the other person's body language is. If he/she stands and grip fights I take it they're game. If they pull guard, sweet.

 

[dallas405]

usually you will start rolls on your knees or sitting down bc of a space issue, lower rank guys, ect... but you guys act like if you are playing guard and on the ground them standing up changes anything... it doesn't, there are two ways to pass the guard essentially... 1)standing and 2)being on your knees (you can also look at it as running passes and outflanking passes vs smashing passes). Reguardless you are still playing guard and need to learn how to play guard against someone standing because once you reach a certain level even though your opponent is up he isn't going to disengage and let you up, he will still keep the pressure on you.

This is where it becomes tricky... It usually takes a guy standing up on you a few times to learn that you can;t disengage and you have to keep up the pressure. But even if you do stand up then you need to disengage and either go back down or it should be your partners turn to go back down... unless takedowns are agreed upon and ok with the instructor you shouldn't just stand up and go for it or else you would have been standing up from the start.

If you start from standing and you get up from your guard then it doesn;t matter and you should look to get your TD or throw right away.

 

[Vitamin C]

I see no problem with when I get a single leg from guard and stand to finish it. Same idea really.
The only thing I would consider to be bad etiquette would be standing from a top position just to try to hit a takedown to side control from standing. From what I have seen, these are the same guys who try to disengage and run around the guard.
If you are finishing a technique, or responding to their actions, ie. it's fine really. They reap what they sow. If they stand up and you follow, then trip them... well, what did they expect?

 

[TriangleMan]

Being on the knees is just so damn impractical. I always stand subconsciously on one leg or end up getting up and restarting.

 

[Calibur]

Example from a while ago: Partner breaks my grips and stands, retreats slighty giving me ample space to stand so I technical stand up, he seems a little confused by my standing, I take a sleeve and collar grip, throw him with Uchi Mata, secure side control; he seems a little butthurt about it, frowning as if I'd done some dickish move but doesn't say anything. It felt a bit like breaking some unwritten rule of sparring.

Any thoughts?

This exact scenario happens to me verbatim almost once a session at this point. It hasn't helped make me any friends.

I get the stink eye all the time and I asked myself if I was doing something wrong.

I realized I wasn't. There is not one situation where I would let my opponent have the explosiveness of standing and the space to manuever with no grips. Not one situation! In any kind of situation I would be standing up too unless I was feeling like a vagina and wanted to butt scoot (ZING!).

I've brought this up before, but people who insist on standing from the knees are usually terrible at takedowns. They ironically put themselves into a position they are bad at defending. Weird huh? The thing is, generally people with any decent understanding of pressure will not only keep it on, but will value having top position and not give their opponent too much space.

During practice, someone without good takedowns will immediately stand to prepare to circle around the guard if I sit down first, but if I stand as a reaction they will pull immediately now, putting them in a position they prefer anyway.

This is only slightly lamer than the dudes in practice who cant get passed closed guard and sweep themselves so they can end up in some kind of bottom guard/half guard/50/50 position. That's another growing epidemic that I'm seeing crop up everywhere.