Bill and Melinda Gates on income inequality

Most americans are in debt, college or not. Across all age groups there are major earning gaps between people with even just some college (i.e. less than an associates) versus those with only a HS diploma. Among "millennials" the gap is even more pronounced. That gap grows with each step up in level of education (PhD vs Professional being the only exception).

That's not a guarantee of prosperity but it isn't really arguable. With even just some college you will likely make far more than you would with no college.

True. But, if I'm not mistaken, something else to look at is that prosperity has gone down across the board in general. Like you said, though, it's just that people with higher education have better outcomes in today's market.
 
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The system is pretty messed up when the top 1% keep sucking in like a blackhole, the money from the rest at a faster rate every year.

When pointed out that something is very wrong "we may or may not give something back"

Kind people.

Its a false argument though.

People read 'the richest 1%' and assume they are talking about guys like Bill Gates. They validate that by posting a quote from Bill Gates. But in fact and by far the biggest numbers in the richest 1% are your neighbours in the first world who have had decent jobs for about 20. Anyone who has total assets, including their house of $800,000.

If instead they said rightly that 50% of the wealth is in the 1st and the rest of the world has 50% would that shock anyone? As that is really what they are saying.

Does anyone think that a dual income family with 20 years of employment history and $800k in assets (the bulk of the 1%) are somehow fat cats and wrong for having that much assets?
 
Wasting billions of dollars to help Africa is actually far less useful to humanity's progress than investing that money into business that would raise Africans out of poverty with a profit motive in mind.

Of course, he shouldn't be helping Africans. He has a duty to his people whom he could help far more with those jobs, investments, or just plain charity.

Bill Gates is wasting money with the work he does in Africa? How do you figure that?

I don't think it's really a spin on trickle down economics. It's not Bill's problem that 50% of all wealth is/will be held by 1% of people. He could have just said, "How is that my fucking problem?"

Edit: I'm not saying it isn't a problem. I'm just saying Bill Gates probably doesn't care.

I'm not saying it's his problem, but he was asked and this is his response to this issue..

The rich also pay most of the taxes. The rich also provide the jobs that employ those who aren't too lazy to just collect a check Uncle Sam.

What's the government do again?
Choke people to death trying to make a buck selling a cigarette.

The government provides jobs.. It is the largest employer in any economy
 
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Wasting billions of dollars to help Africa is actually far less useful to humanity's progress than investing that money into business that would raise Africans out of poverty with a profit motive in mind.
Stability in a region is of first important because without that business will not invest. Bill has tackled many of the systemic issues in Africa that contribute massively to the instability of the region and he is having success.

Of course, he shouldn't be helping Africans. He has a duty to his people whom he could help far more with those jobs, investments, or just plain charity.

Define "his people" and what his "duty" to them is?
 
Its a false argument though.

People read 'the richest 1%' and assume they are talking about guys like Bill Gates. They validate that by posting a quote from Bill Gates. But in fact and by far the biggest numbers in the richest 1% are your neighbours in the first world who have had decent jobs for about 20. Anyone who has total assets, including their house of $800,000.

If instead they said rightly that 50% of the wealth is in the 1st and the rest of the world has 50% would that shock anyone? As that is really what they are saying.
Does anyone think that a dual income family with 20 years of employment history and $800k in assets (the bulk of the 1%) are somehow fat cats and wrong for having that much assets?

I'm sure that you'll find that plenty of people think N.Americans at least are wasteful and vain. Question I guess would be how to incent people if their pay was reduced.
 
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/bill-and-...on-the-future-and-philanthropy-143014670.html

While he does say there is a role for government, he seems to think the lions share of good will come from philanthropy. Isn't this just another spin of trickle down economics?

I believe he said his kids are not getting any of his money. When he dies his personal wealth goes to charity. He thinks he will have done enough to pay for their education and I kind of agree with him.

I know it is shocking to hear but people can make it if they try unless they have a disability. Well, they can make it until we destroy all the job creators. Good luck at finding a job from a poor man.
 
I'm sure that you'll find that plenty of people think N.Americans at least are wasteful and vain. Question I guess would be how to incent people if their pay was reduced.
N.American's are not the only ones in the 1%. Anyone with $800k in net assets is part of the 1%. IT is basically all of the 1st middle class that has been working at least 20 years and been responsible with their earnings.

A married couple comprised of two school teachers with 20 years of employment is well within that 1%.

Are they seen as typically wasteful, taking resources from others and fat cats?

This 1%, is a false talking point crafted to create resentment towards the super rich by including every day folk in their bucket, which should not be done.

Again I would point out that if this question was put forth more honestly "half the worlds wealth resides in the 1st world" (code for the 1%) do we think people would be shocked or it would stimulate the outrage that is trying to be manufactured.
 
Bill Gates is wasting money with the work he does in Africa? How do you figure that?



I'm not saying it's his problem, but he was asked and this is his response to this issue..



The government provides jobs.. It is the largest employer in any economy

Even Bill Clinton's economist knew that government jobs no matter how much they are needed with the exception of a very few take away from the economy while business can add to the economy. Domestic business does not take away from the economy.

Also if we destroy the big taxpayers where are those government jobs going to come from. If we get rid of the big domestic taxpayers were are those private sector jobs going to come form.

Very short sighted.
 
This 1%, is a false talking point crafted to create resentment towards the super rich by including every day folk in their bucket, which should not be done.

Did you mangle a talking point here? You meant to say that it's designed to *reduce* resentment toward the super rich by including everyday folk in their bucket, right? And, actually, it's not about reducing resentment, which is irrelevant, but about stopping efforts to enact more broadly beneficial policy
 
Bill Gates lost me when he said he did not support raising the minimum wage on a national level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

You win votes by doing things the masses want to here. Truth be damned. There is a lot of agreement and disagreement to the follow on effects of this but secondary effect is often more powerful than primary effect. This does not solve the problem. The problem can be improved by fixing the balance of payments issue.


"If a higher minimum wage increases the wage rates of unskilled workers above the level that would be established by market forces, the quantity of unskilled workers employed will fall. The minimum wage will price the services of the least productive (and therefore lowest-wage) workers out of the market. …The direct results of minimum wage legislation are clearly mixed. Some workers, most likely those whose previous wages were closest to the minimum, will enjoy higher wages. This is known as the "ripple effect". The ripple effect shows that when you increase the minimum wage the wages of all others will consequently increase due the need for relativity.[37] Others, particularly those with the lowest prelegislation wage rates, will be unable to find work. They will be pushed into the ranks of the unemployed or out of the labor force. Some argue that by increasing the federal minimum wage, however, the economy will be adversely affected due to small businesses not being able to keep up with the need to subsequently increase all workers wages"

This part was to try and get the attention of some people. It is actually very complicated. It no matter what is the best way to address the problem. I remember when almost no one paid the minimum wage, it was hard to get paid that little.

One complication is all the noise from multiple sources but the balance of payments has a rational affect on domestic employment and wages but everyone seems to be against event trying to fix that problem. In fact there is energy in the population devoted to making the problem worse. Both Obama and right wingers have said this is a problem though they might not always agree on how to address the balance of payments issue. The problem is it seems like when anyone tries to address it people somehow think its bad.
 
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The government provides jobs.. It is the largest employer in any economy

Gov't jobs do not add to the economies wealth though. They spread the wealth made in the private sector to gov't friends.

Think of it this way. Two parents work and have five kids that don't work.

They find themselves short income and so to turn their 5 kids into wage earners the parents give them all jobs and pay them from their own income.

The kids are now doing better but the family is not as no new wealth was created. It was just the income from the parents spread around.

Same for gov't jobs. It is the income (taxes) taken from the private jobs (parents) and redistributed to the gov't jobs (kids). No new wealth was created, it was simply some taken and reallocated from those who created it.
 
Did you mangle a talking point here? You meant to say that it's designed to *reduce* resentment toward the super rich by including everyday folk in their bucket, right? And, actually, it's not about reducing resentment, which is irrelevant, but about stopping efforts to enact more broadly beneficial policy

no. they don't point out every day folk comprise the vast majority of the 1%. They are trying to create (and are successfully doing it) an image that the 1% are the super elite and rich and to say this tiny group controls 50% is used to whip up anger and resentment against them.

If they were honest and instead said the 1% is basically the 1st world and the 1st world basically has 50% of the wealth then most would say d'uh and the topic would be glossed over.
 
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I know it is shocking to hear but people can make it if they try unless they have a disability. Well, they can make it until we destroy all the job creators. Good luck at finding a job from a poor man.

When I read things like this I imagine a 21st century American being dumbfounded by a magic-lantern show. Because people making these kinds of statements is the economic equivalent. Even after so many years I continue to be amazed at how easy it is for the affluent snake-oilers to pull the wool over the eyes of the multitudes.
 
When I read things like this I imagine a 21st century American being dumbfounded by a magic-lantern show. Because people making these kinds of statements is the economic equivalent. Even after so many years I continue to be amazed at how easy it is for the affluent snake-oilers to pull the wool over the eyes of the multitudes.

What wool was pulled over their eyes?
 
Gov't jobs do not add to the economies wealth though. They spread the wealth made in the private sector to gov't friends.

Think of it this way. Two parents work and have five kids that don't work.

They find themselves short income and so to turn their 5 kids into wage earners the parents give them all jobs and pay them from their own income.

The kids are now doing better but the family is not as no new wealth was created. It was just the income from the parents spread around.

Same for gov't jobs. It is the income (taxes) taken from the private jobs (parents) and redistributed to the gov't jobs (kids). No new wealth was created, it was simply some taken and reallocated from those who created it.

So the taxes I pay on the goods I purchase don't contribute back to the overall economy simply because my check comes from Uncle Sam?
 
What wool was pulled over their eyes?

"Hey, someone pulled the wool over your eyes."

"What wool? I don't see any wool." :icon_lol:

But, yeah... Basically the concept that unless the majority of the country's wealth is possessed by a tiny sliver of its population it will be impossible to live the dream of earning $30/hr. in middle-America.

"Step right up, step right up my friends and let me tell you something that just might change the trajectory of your whole life... You think you're poor now? Imagine how much poorer you would be if there were no billionaires in the world!"
 
N.American's are not the only ones in the 1%. Anyone with $800k in net assets is part of the 1%. IT is basically all of the 1st middle class that has been working at least 20 years and been responsible with their earnings.

A married couple comprised of two school teachers with 20 years of employment is well within that 1%.

Are they seen as typically wasteful, taking resources from others and fat cats?

This 1%, is a false talking point crafted to create resentment towards the super rich by including every day folk in their bucket, which should not be done.

Again I would point out that if this question was put forth more honestly "half the worlds wealth resides in the 1st world" (code for the 1%) do we think people would be shocked or it would stimulate the outrage that is trying to be manufactured.

That's why I said...

I'm sure that you'll find that plenty of people think N.Americans at least are wasteful and vain. Question I guess would be how to incent people if their pay was reduced.

I think most people, online at least, can attest to N.Americans, mainly the USA, being shat on more than other 1st world countries. Or, that's my experience at least.

That said, I'd imagine that, yes, the USA would be low on the totem pole in study when it comes to resource management. I think this was the case when I studied the topic an public services a few years back, but I don't quite remember.

Personally, I think a lot of the stuff that people have is a waste. For example, I grew up i a home where each bedroom could be a studio apartment. I've felt that our house was way too big for our needs for a while.

Also, 1% of the world's population is still a small number. And even when you add in only 1st world countries, not including 2nd and 3rd world countries' relatively affluent, most people's neighbors most likely aren't included. If my math is right, 1% of the world's population is about 10% of just the USA, Canada, and Western Europe's population, which doesn't include all of the 1st world population.
 
So the taxes I pay on the goods I purchase don't contribute back to the overall economy simply because my check comes from Uncle Sam?

This is actually quite complicated. Unless it is involved in production or a couple of other activities it doesn't but this has to be qualified. There are quite a few government functions that are absolutely needed for a well functioning economy but they don't directly grow the economy.

Taxes don't grow an economy but finance government. Taxes on one hand take away from some economic growth but the fact that are some tasks needed for economic growth to function well in an indirect way they contribute.

I have worked for the government and when I was there I was a tax rebater rather than taxpayer. I gave back some of the taxes that paid me back to the government. What I did created no wealth and I was paid by the wealth created by others then I gave some of that back in the form of taxes.

There are some activities by government that many including me should be done but they don't contribute to growth of the economy. I approve of them because I think they are a benefit but to say they contribute to the economy would be false.

It really depends on what the activity is. Building infrastructure can be a direct growth of the economy but this has to be qualified. If there is not enough invested infrastructure the economy could have benefited by greater government spending. If too much is invested in infrastructure it is a drag on the economy.

It really depends on the activity. In some areas it is cut on tried, in other areas there is disagreement among the people who make it their life's work to understand these things.

In a world with no subsidies the relative value of most things is easy to discern. This is one of the problems Bill Clinton's economist talks about in his government economics teaching.

The government uses what is called a cost benefit analysis but it is very qualitative on how much is the optimum amount. Since there are not market drivers for it they try and do what is called the least worst method. The least worst method is used in a lot of areas where it is impossible to know the right answer so it is an attempt at making a good guess. The merit government workers should be trying to make a good faith effort on this even though they know it is still a guess. The other weakness is politics often gets involved in much of it.

A part of government makes it easier for others to grow the economy, if the benefit it provides to growth is larger than what it takes out of the economy it is helpful. It is impossible to know the right amount.

A part of government is a pure drag on the economy no mater how you cut it. It does not mean that it should or shouldn't be done. These kinds of activities are impossible to quantitatively assign a value to. These can be dangerous areas because there are not any tools to guess what is the optimum amount. They are simply things that someone thinks the government should do.

There are some activities that in of themselves that are a drag on the economy and don't grow an economy but help prevent it from shrinking. Law enforcement would be one of these. Without law enforcement productivity would be taken away, no reason for someone to contribute the growth to the economy if it will be taken away by force by non-producers. Some form of security is needed to keep the economy from shrinking due to certain activities. It is deemed absolutely needed to have it in place even though it does not grow the economy, it protects the economy (thinking only of the economic aspect of law enforcement) It is impossible to know the right amount of law enforcement is optimum so we have to guess.

Again the taxes on government wages goes back to government so government workers are tax rebaters. That does not by itself mean it's a bad thing.

It is impossible to cover this subject in a post or a thread but takes years of study and after years of study you still have not scratched the surface of it.

The private sector creates direct value in the economy but all parts of private sector is not beneficial. The domestic activity that the private sector is the value of the economy. Without a functioning government the private sector would no be productive. This does not mean all parts of government is involved in a functioning economy. Most of government is an economic drag but definately not all of it. Just because a part of government is an economic drag does not mean it shouldn't be done.

The danger is too much government is a drag on the economy, too little government and the economy does not function even if the government does not create real growth directly.

I keep mentioning Bills old economics adviser because it is more palitable to some. In the same text book he wrote on government economics he stated Government agencies have an incentive to grow in size even if not needed. The private sector has an incentive to increase profits.

The reason the private sector has an efficiency advantage is it's profits are tied directly to the work it does. It can efficiently (from a productivity measure) make a bunch of things no one wants (inefficient from an economic measure). It has an incentive to not make these mistakes. A private sector business without subsidy has an incentive to try and produce the right amount and right things that people want in order to make a profit. They make there living trying to serve others. Government activity generally is not tied to the activity they do. A government agency can blow it's budget but it's revenue remain unchanged. A private sector company has hints to start doing less of what people don't want and switch to doing move of something else. Enough mistakes and the company that was actually bad for the economy is bankrupt and is no longer wasting resources. All of this gain is because most businesses have their income directly related to the activity they do. The government has a disconnect between what it does and its revenue.

When people say a government should be run as a business this is false. A government can't and should not run like a business because it is not one. It has to operate on cost benefit analysis using the least worst model to determine how much of it to do. Some parts of government it is impossible to do a cost benefit analysis on.
 
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I believe the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is the second biggest donor to the WHO behind the US and ahead of the UK.
 
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