Better fighter losing due to overlooking

[wwkirk]

Examples of fights were the better fighters lost cuz he overlooked and underestimated his opponent.

Cro cop v Gonzaga (literally won the rematch while more shop worn/old)

Reem v Big Foot
Crocop v Randleman
Werdum v Stipe
Rockhold v Bisping 2
Silva v Weidman
Shogun v Forrest
Hendo v Misaki 2
Hendo v Sheilds
Mir v Brock 2
GSP v Serra
Rampage v Forrest

Does Fedor v Werdum qualify?

 

[Feaser]

BJ when he fought the fat shirtless dude in the parking lot

 

[BowserJr]

Does Fedor v Werdum qualify?

I go back n forth on that 1

 

[BowserJr]

Well over the hill? Lmao it was literally Shogun's first fight post Jones.

Sherdoggers will cry to high heaven about Shogun's knee injuries but will for "some reason" never mention Forrest's much worse shoulder injuries:

Forrest has had a majorly damaged shoulder for quite a long while. The injuries to his shoulder even before his fight with Shogun were exhaustive. You have never heard of it because Forrest never mentions his injuries, whether he has won or lost, after his fights. This surgery was a long time in coming. Everyone felt it was in his best interest to have the surgery now before fighting another top tier fighter. He basically fought Shogun with one arm. Trust me, Forrest wanted to fight Silva in December but that was not to be.

Report: Forrest Griffin to have shoulder surgery

Light heavyweight contender Forrest Griffin will undergo surgery to repair an injured shoulder, according to a comment on the Underground Forum from former contestant on The Ultimate Fighter...

www.mmamania.com

It would be a reoccurring injury for the rest of his life. The dude says he can barely brush his teeth his shoulder's so bad.

Sorry but torn CLs are way worse

 

[markg171]

Sorry but torn CLs are way worse

Forrest's shoulder STILL doesn't work properly nearly 20 years later. Wtf are you even talking about dude?

You guys are pathetic.

 

[r-harper-1]

Examples of fights were the better fighters lost cuz he overlooked and underestimated his opponent.

Cro cop v Gonzaga (literally won the rematch while more shop worn/old)

Reem v Big Foot
Crocop v Randleman
Werdum v Stipe
Rockhold v Bisping 2
Silva v Weidman
Shogun v Forrest
Hendo v Misaki 2
Hendo v Sheilds
Mir v Brock 2
GSP v Serra
Rampage v Forrest

Mir isn’t better than Brock ….He took Frank down and smashed him

 

[linvillegorge]

Chuck - Jardine

 

[Croaker]

mousasi vs hall 1

the mouth breathers/Mousasi haters talked about that fight like Hall was just way too skilled for Gegard despite getting worked before that happened. The rematch was absolutely hilarious. The most delusional fanbased in the history of Sherdog were Hall fans along with Matt Serra and Gabriel Gonzaga fans. Even the Sokoudjou hype wasnt as stupid as those guys. At least Sokoudjou wrecked 2 great fighters back to back.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

The Werdum vs JDS fight always stuck out to me as a prime example of overlooking your opponent. Werdum is on the cusp of a title shot and the JDS fight was supposed to be a keep busy fight while JDS was an unknown at that time and didn't even have a Wikipedia page.

This was the time when the "new breed" of super heavyweight were all the rage, like Brock and Carwin. To prepare for a potential fight against Brock, Werdum decided to bulk up going into the JDS fight. He was also a -600 favorite I believe. JDS then proceeded to knock his fat ass out and kicked off an incredible run to the title

The ear wiggle on Werdum always makes me laugh

 

[evergreenrider]

Renting tapes from Hollywood video in high school

 

[BowserJr]

Mir isn’t better than Brock ….He took Frank down and smashed him

Frank tried to do the Yves Edwards jumping knee in clinch KO but failed

 

[BowserJr]

the mouth breathers/Mousasi haters talked about that fight like Hall was just way too skilled for Gegard despite getting worked before that happened. The rematch was absolutely hilarious. The most delusional fanbased in the history of Sherdog were Hall fans along with Matt Serra and Gabriel Gonzaga fans. Even the Sokoudjou hype wasnt as stupid as those guys. At least Sokoudjou wrecked 2 great fighters back to back.

This is probably the most clear example yet the morons deny reality

 

[jeskola]

The OP asks about Overlooking an opponent. Overlooking an opponent is one cause of an upset, but not all upsets are caused by overlooking. A lot of posts here are just upsets with other random causes.

My pick is Joe Lauzon vs Jens Pulver. UFC had just brought back the Lightweight division from mothballs and were about to crown a Lightweigt champ for the first time in years. They brought Pulver back with the intention of him holding that belt. All the promotion and accolades showering Jens coupled with the relative inexperience of Joe caused Jens to majorly overlook Joe.

Honorable mention for Amir Sadollah being overlooked by Matt Brown and CB Dollaway (twice) during his run to the TUF title.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Swear Sherdog tries to completely memory hole that CC/Gonzaga 2 went exactly the same as the first fight with Gonzaga taking CC down and badly beating the shit out of him on the ground for the majority of the fight. Gonzaga was up 20-17 and had nearly finished CC multiple times. CC was losing the 3rd too and then won the rematch entirely in the very last 10 seconds of the fight when CC landed an elbow standing that hurt Gonzaga and finished him seconds later.

It wasn't at all some brand new CC like Sherdog tries to pretend. Gonzaga was again beating the shit out of him. CC is not a better fighter than Gonzaga. Better career yes, but their fights made clear that Gonzaga is a bad matchup for him. He dominated him for 99% of their 2 fights.

The rematch if anything was the fluke.

Again i think you can make the case the lack of defence of elbows was a bit of a factor, Mirko was looking to focus heavily on wrist control in that fight which in Pride would have been fine but here he was getting cracked by elbows constantly whilst doing it, not sure he was "near finished" but by his own admission he was hurt by them and was seeing double when stood up.

Really though I think its moreso people look to make more out of the fight than it actually was, at the time espeically there was an absolute tide of claims it proved Mirko was overated that UFC HW@s were superior, etc. Besides the elbows though to me its much more akin to the Randleman loss, a combination of an opponent who is flakey but on the night gave the perfect performance and Mirko's style depending on avoiding offence rather than disrupting it much.

Just like Randleman could not throw a punch that accurately consistantly Gonzaga could not catch a mid kick that consistantly nore throw a high kick that perfectly or depend on Mirko broking mid instead of high. The difference is really though that by this point Mirko was that much older and the injuries started to pile up meaning he never made a comeback to his best form after Gonzaga.

I'd agree the second match doesnt really "proove" the first was an upset as both were declined although it does I think demonstrate that Gonzaga tended to find a way to loose more often than a way to win in big matches ala Randleman. If Gonzaga had the chin/heart/cardio of Nog he would likely have been an ATG but he didnt.

 

[markg171]

Again i think you can make the case the lack of defence of elbows was a bit of a factor, Mirko was looking to focus heavily on wrist control in that fight which in Pride would have been fine but here he was getting cracked by elbows constantly whilst doing it, not sure he was "near finished" but by his own admission he was hurt by them and was seeing double when stood up.

Really though I think its moreso people look to make more out of the fight than it actually was, at the time espeically there was an absolute tide of claims it proved Mirko was overated that UFC HW@s were superior, etc. Besides the elbows though to me its much more akin to the Randleman loss, a combination of an opponent who is flakey but on the night gave the perfect performance and Mirko's style depending on avoiding offence rather than disrupting it much.

Just like Randleman could not throw a punch that accurately consistantly Gonzaga could not catch a mid kick that consistantly nore throw a high kick that perfectly or depend on Mirko broking mid instead of high. The difference is really though that by this point Mirko was that much older and the injuries started to pile up meaning he never made a comeback to his best form after Gonzaga.

I'd agree the second match doesnt really "proove" the first was an upset as both were declined although it does I think demonstrate that Gonzaga tended to find a way to loose more often than a way to win in big matches ala Randleman. If Gonzaga had the chin/heart/cardio of Nog he would likely have been an ATG but he didnt.

Gonzaga was literally up 20-17 on CC in the rematch and had just mounted and armbarred him before a Hail Mary elbow in the 3rd.

Wtf are you talking about

 

[pick999]

Matt serra overlooked gsp in the 2nd fight and lost

 

[r-harper-1]

Frank tried to do the Yves Edwards jumping knee in clinch KO but failed

Wouldn’t have mattered …. Brock manhandled him in the first round

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Gonzaga was literally up 20-17 on CC in the rematch and had just mounted and armbarred him before a Hail Mary elbow in the 3rd.

Wtf are you talking about

WTF are you talking about more like.

This post doesnt gainsay anything in what you quoted, I said if the rematch told us anything about the original fight it was than Gonzaga besides that match often found a way to loose fights he was winning, happened vs Randy, Carwin(short as it was), etc as well.

Again if anything the rematch was the reverse of the original, Mirko was the underdog in that fight, Gonazga was past his best but Mirko was many years past his best.

My point is that I don't think Gonzaga beating Mirko the first time showed he was the superior fighter overall as was claimed at the time, we saw the rest of Gonzaga's career that his heart, cardio and ring IQ were often seriously questionable and ontop of that he had a very inspired couple of moments vs Mirko catching the mid kick and landing the HK he struggled to replicate.

The same way Randleman wasnt superior to Mirko first time he beat him, he won on the night but he simply couldn't land a punch that good consistently and indeed tended to throw fights away himself as we saw in the rematch.

Mirko by comparison showed himself to be a much more consistantly top level fighter than Gonzaga and WAS able to have those inspired moments consistently putting people away with LHK/Mid Kicks many times.

 

[pv3Hpv3p]

I dunno if Gomi vs Nick Diaz is considered this, but I'm gonna put it out there anyhow

 

[markg171]

WTF are you talking about more like.

This post doesnt gainsay anything in what you quoted, I said if the rematch told us anything about the original fight it was than Gonzaga besides that match often found a way to loose fights he was winning, happened vs Randy, Carwin(shiort as it was), etc as well.

Again if anything the rematch was the reverse of the original, Mirko was the underdog in that fight, Gonazga was past his best but Mirko was many years past his best.

My point is that I don't think Gonzaga beating Mirko the first time showed he was the superior fighter overall as was claimed at the time, we saw the rest of Gonzaga's career that his heart, cardio and ring IQ were often seriously questionable and ontop of that he had a very inspired couple of moments vs Mirko catching the mid kick and landing the HK he struggled to replicate.

The same way Randleman wasnt superior to Mirko first time he beat him, he won on the night but he simply couldn't land a punch that good consistently and indeed tended to throw fights away himself as we saw in the rematch.

Mirko by comparison showed himself to be a much more consistantly top level fighter than Gonzaga and WAS able to have those inspired moments consistently putting people away with LHK/Mid Kicks many times.

Okay but Gonzaga is better than CC. He's dominantly won 99% of their 25 minutes together.