BETA Academy owner explains ending relationship with Lloyd Irvin

[SanShou01]

I'm sure LI made Nakapan sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA).

Well that letter was pretty slanderous, so NDA may be the least of his worries.

 

[Jdonw]

I did not attend the mma millionaire seminar but I am pretty sure it was just a platform to sell another product. That software stuff.

It is like those millionaire seminar. They can turn you into millionaire. Just to find out that they want you to remortgage your house to buy an apartment in their future state of the thing building.
Needless to say they don't deliver much. Sometimes the business goes broke before they can cement the foundation. Over priced apartment with promised of guaranteed rent. Etc.,.

If you look at Lloyd Irvin's facebook photos of his last event, it is clear it is all about up selling. He has booths with "The Ultimate _____ System" set up everywhere, and there's plenty of photos of Marcos in front of the power of The Mastermind boards.

And for the characterization that Lloyd has been doing this for 10 years, his January event was Blueprint #5, he definitely has not been doing these events for 10 years.

 

[j0ch1n]

Ok, so he admittedly swindled money from people for 2 or 3 years, you feel better now bro?

Nakapan certainly was at Moses' gym for many years before he started Beta, so I'm sure he swindled money there too don't you think?

If Nakapan knew how Moses ran his gym, why would he have needed LI's help in the first place? He would have already known all the marketing strategies.

 

[Cali Grappler]

It would have been more plausible if Nakapan gave some CLEAR examples as to how Irvin and himself were "swindling" people out of their money all of these years.

And also, not try to play the victim card. Out LI, fine whatever, but it sounded like he cared more about his image then he cared about the community.

 

[Balto]

It would have been more plausible if Nakapan gave some CLEAR examples as to how Irvin and himself were "swindling" people out of their money all of these years.

I thought he was pretty specific here:

"I also want to apologize to anyone who attended an event because of my recommendation or influence. Many school owners have expressed, in confidence, their shock at the lack of integrity and respect demonstrated when it comes to the fulfillment of promises made in the advertising of these events. While I did spend countless hours preparing presentations on business topics that I was led to believe I would have the time and platform to speak about, more often than not I was left in the dark, without an agenda, and unable to deliver because of the lack of planning, time management and poor administration of these events.

As a result, attendees understandably felt as though they had been swindled. Instead of getting the information that they were promised, they were forced to sit through sales pitch after sales pitch in an attempt to sell, up-sell, and sell again with offers of one-size-fits-all business solutions. This is unforgivable considering the fact that a significant number of participants traveled across the country in hopes of a brighter future for themselves and for their schools and I deeply regret my participation in it."

So the swindle is that they convince other school owners to pay big bucks to come out to these events. However, instead of delivering as advertised, the events are just giant advertisements for the next event. That is a pretty classic swindle.

 

[Discipulus]

It's slanderous only if Lloyd can disprove it. Let's see him try.

 

[lechien]

Haha, this is "genius"?????? sounds like Sales & Marketing 101 to me. Man, it's just asking for referrals. Every numbnuts salesman is taught this.

Who likes sales calls at 7pm while they're eating dinner? But this ain't no capital crime and shit.

Insurance Agents, Mortgage Brokers, Loan Officers, Real Estate Agents, Cell Phone Carriers....and the dreaded, MLM (Amway, Herbal Life, and shit).....this is all standard procedure for all sales businesses as such.

I wouldn't pay Irvin $10 to teach me this, let alone years of fees totaling more than "$35,000" as Nak complained about.

Sales and mkt 101 as you said.
Some people would love and some would thing it is a douchebag move.
Your customer is there to learn bjj.
Now you are looking at them as they can give more revenue.
In front of the rest of the paying customer, you spin the wheel and reward them.
It is the idea that a paying customer is there to provide you with more income that disturb some people.

It is just the tip of iceberg.

Like I said. It is different the traditional way and we are just waiting to see the consequences of it.

And no. Showing nice cars and nice medals is not sufficient to explain such vulture attitude.

In some people mind.

 

[lechien]

The traditional bjj system is as well full of bs as well. But that a different story.

 

[Cali Grappler]

Your customer is there to learn bjj.
Now you are looking at them as they can give more revenue.
In front of the rest of the paying customer, you spin the wheel and reward them.
It is the idea that a paying customer is there to provide you with more income that disturb some people.

It is just the tip of iceberg.

Like I said. It is different the traditional way and we are just waiting to see the consequences of it.

My instructor wanted to implement a system where students get rewarded for signing people up. "Get paid to train". He's not a business man, just thought it was a good way to share the wealth and get more people in the door. A few of us explained to him, it could create a weird vibe and could change people's motivation about why they are there.

We decided that its best to offer discounts if you want to add people to your friends and family plan. Most people want to share bjj with their friends anyways, no need to try and entice them with $$.

 

[anaconda]

Who's Vicki Irvin?

Tell how what I'm saying is not logical?

Nak is apologizing for swindling people's money for many years now since his gym opened up, but how do empty words help his victims? You cheat people illegally and they call the cops and you get prosecuted....you usually have to pay it ALL back plus interests, penalties and fines....and maybe prison time.

lol you are funny. you started out nice and innocent, but just like devnull once you got riled up your mask slippped and your true colors showed. You sound like the guy in the facebook thread. The one claiming Nak should sell his BMW and give the money back.

(Which is one of the dumbest ideas ever)

 

[lechien]

My instructor wanted to implement a system where students get rewarded for signing people up. "Get paid to train". He's not a business man, just thought it was a good way to share the wealth and get more people in the door. A few of us explained to him, it could create a weird vibe and could change people's motivation about why they are there.

We decided that its best to offer discounts if you want to add people to your friends and family plan. Most people want to share bjj with their friends anyways, no need to try and entice them with $$.

I saw it somewhere like that fake bb Brado. You get a month free if your friend signs up.
Well good on you guys to tell your instructor how you felt and good on him for listening.
But Lloyd irwin would tell your instructor that it is bs and he has to earn more money therefore go with the original plan.
Lot of people complained on fb on how Lloyd irwin tactics have destroyed small gyms. Then his supporters would attack the critics.
There is a fine line in teaching martial arts.
Like irwin said, he is super rich and he said that school owner can pay him to learn about his success.

 

[anaconda]

It would have been more plausible if Nakapan gave some CLEAR examples as to how Irvin and himself were "swindling" people out of their money all of these years.

This I agree with.

Its the biggest problems I had with Ryan's and Nakapan's letters. Everything was veiled or suggested or insinuated. If you are going to call someone out, I want you to be explicit about it. Don't try to be sly or mysterious.

If you have a strong case, let the facts speak for themselves.

 

[ajf]

Sanshou01, there's a ton of stuff in your posts that's simply inaccurate. Nak didn't go straight to TLI after Yamasaki's. He first got his black belt from Pedro Sauer. After he ended up with TLI, he stopped training for a few years after an injury. He started training again and Dalla urged him to open up BETA...

...Which by the way, has been around for just shy of 5 years... So Nakapan hasn't been "making money off of TLI" for 10 years. Further, BETA didn't implement TLI's high pressure sales model until 2 years ago. It brought new students to the school, but it scared away a few brown belts, a purple belt, and a guy with a decade of wrestling experience.

Nakapan said that his losses were the result of A) paying into Lloyd's MLM (pyramid) scheme, and B) partnering with Lloyd on a software project, only to have Lloyd short him of tens of thousands of dollars for his half of the investment. If someone owed me that much money, for that long, and was that unresponsive, I'd say "fuck that guy" too (and I'd probably say it very publicly). Anyone who says they'd act any different in that situation is full of shit.

It takes some balls to publicly state "I acted like an asshole and I'm sorry." Nakapan not only did this, but he succinctly documented his involvement in an unsustainable business practice. Was he wrong? Yes. But you know what, he's able to admit he was wrong, which compared to some of the other people involved in this situation is a big fucking deal.

Once you start teaching people Brazilian Jiujitsu, you start to really see the beauty of this sport. One of our students recently left for NYC, and on his last day he got in front of the class and reminded us that when he first came to the school, he was 35 pounds overweight and completely out of shape. He left our school as a good blue belt who said he was in the best shape of his life. I remember his first class, because I taught it. This stuff happens every day in BJJ gyms around the world, and it's a shame to see people get so fucking jaded about money that they lose the simple joy that exists in being a part of peoples growth.

Fuck marketing schemes. Fuck business consulting. Fuck Aston Martins and bundles of 20's. Fuck instructional DVD packages on business models. Fuck upselling and high pressure sales and all the greed that has gotten into this sport. You know what I'll pay for? High-energy classes with a consistent level of instruction, instructors who push their students a little harder than they want to push themselves, that lead by example.

 

[nhbfan8080]

This I agree with.

Its the biggest problems I had with Ryan's and Nakapan's letters. Everything was veiled or suggested or insinuated. If you are going to call someone out, I want you to be explicit about it. Don't try to be sly or mysterious.

If you have a strong case, let the facts speak for themselves.

Maybe they were embarrassed themselves at being suckered into the TLI scheme for years probably out of sheer greed. Kind of difficult having to disassociate themselves only after such a huge scandal.

 

[ElKarlo]

Sanshou01, there's a ton of stuff in your posts that's simply inaccurate. Nak didn't go straight to TLI after Yamasaki's. He first got his black belt from Pedro Sauer. After he ended up with TLI, he stopped training for a few years after an injury. He started training again and Dalla urged him to open up BETA...

...Which by the way, has been around for just shy of 5 years... So Nakapan hasn't been "making money off of TLI" for 10 years. Further, BETA didn't implement TLI's high pressure sales model until 2 years ago. It brought new students to the school, but it scared away a few brown belts, a purple belt, and a guy with a decade of wrestling experience.

Nakapan said that his losses were the result of A) paying into Lloyd's MLM (pyramid) scheme, and B) partnering with Lloyd on a software project, only to have Lloyd short him of tens of thousands of dollars for his half of the investment. If someone owed me that much money, for that long, and was that unresponsive, I'd say "fuck that guy" too (and I'd probably say it very publicly). Anyone who says they'd act any different in that situation is full of shit.

It takes some balls to publicly state "I acted like an asshole and I'm sorry." Nakapan not only did this, but he succinctly documented his involvement in an unsustainable business practice. Was he wrong? Yes. But you know what, he's able to admit he was wrong, which compared to some of the other people involved in this situation is a big fucking deal.

Once you start teaching people Brazilian Jiujitsu, you start to really see the beauty of this sport. One of our students recently left for NYC, and on his last day he got in front of the class and reminded us that when he first came to the school, he was 35 pounds overweight and completely out of shape. He left our school as a good blue belt who said he was in the best shape of his life. I remember his first class, because I taught it. This stuff happens every day in BJJ gyms around the world, and it's a shame to see people get so fucking jaded about money that they lose the simple joy that exists in being a part of peoples growth.

Fuck marketing schemes. Fuck business consulting. Fuck Aston Martins and bundles of 20's. Fuck instructional DVD packages on business models. Fuck upselling and high pressure sales and all the greed that has gotten into this sport. You know what I'll pay for? High-energy classes with a consistent level of instruction, instructors who push their students a little harder than they want to push themselves, that lead by example.

Indeed. Nak wand Mike didn't go staright to TLI, they were on Lynx for a while. I think it was early 2005 when they joined TLI. IIRC

 

[ElKarlo]

Maybe they were embarrassed themselves at being suckered into the TLI scheme for years probably out of sheer greed. Kind of difficult having to disassociate themselves only after such a huge scandal.

Prolly that, mixed with the whole boiling pot and frog analogy. Prolly didn't reliaze it until he was deep into it. Then it's hard to say F#$% you and get out, like most bad relationships.

 

[ElKarlo]

Oh and for being tough, I was psychically abused as a kid. Even though I am pretty tough now, and have had some success in combat sports, I find it that I am easily intimidated. That isn't something you just get over or turn off. So, I can sympathize with Nak, being bullied despite being skilled can and does happen. Esp if you trust the person doing the bullying.

 

[Caddock]

Second, you are his GF so of course you are going to be on his side no matter what.

Second, you are LI's subject, so of course you are going to be on his side no matter what.


Most of what you say against others is exactly what you deny everywhere else. It is really amusing

 

[Bostonkrav]

I can also understand why people are skeptical of Nakapan's letter. It is to be expected. It is also why I do not think you will be seeing any more of these letters anytime soon. I do not think people are really going to be receptive to them no matter who it is.

As a final note, it's sad to realize that the strategy being used here against Nak is just a preview of the strategy that is going to be used against the rape victim in a couple of months. Just wait and see.

Balto I think the response to the letter was overwhelingly positive with a few skeptics and a smattering of sanshous and devnull zombies being a very vocal minority. I hope more people step forward, and I hope you prediction does not come true!

 

[yovan]

Fuck marketing schemes. Fuck business consulting. Fuck Aston Martins and bundles of 20's. Fuck instructional DVD packages on business models. Fuck upselling and high pressure sales and all the greed that has gotten into this sport. You know what I'll pay for? High-energy classes with a consistent level of instruction, instructors who push their students a little harder than they want to push themselves, that lead by example.

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