BETA Academy owner explains ending relationship with Lloyd Irvin

[Cali Grappler]

The tone of replies here and on facebook pages, made by L.I. supporters, supports Nak's story of how the operation runs.

This is the equivalent of anti-LI posters mad at LI calling his critics "haters".

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

This is the equivalent of anti-LI posters mad at LI calling his critics "haters".

No, I don't think so.

 

[SanShou01]

Interesting, however your use of the word "guestimate" relinquishes any possible credibility that you may have had. That and Sanshou is for delusional people living in 1999.

Can't argue with such great reasoning.

 

[Cali Grappler]

I don't know Sanshou01 and he may wind up being an LI guy but his post above praised LI in no way at all. It only criticizes Nakapan. Just curious, who else is off-limits? Anyone who speaks up against LI (even one of his bedfellows of 10 years).

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

Anyone who truthfully speaks out against L.I. is good in my book.

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

Nak has admitted to his shitty past of swindling people out of money. His is now trying to make up for it. Lloyd on the otherhand shows no remorse for his past or for his current state of being a lowly shithead.

 

[Bostonkrav]

Can't I not buy Nak's story without being an LI apologist? (I'm assuming I'm one of the moderates, you mentioned).

I've never said a kind word about LI in person or any forums.

Maybe, maybe not , you at least have posted on other topics but at this point can be very hard to tell the real folks from the zombies. But looking back over the past couple of pages a number of these accounts do stand out

No need to say a kind word to be an apologist,only you know your motivation.

Are you not buying what he said about LI? As in you think LI is an upright businessman, Nak is really the shaddy guy making it all up to make innocent LI look bad?

Or

About the sincerity of his appology/motivation ? As in you think Nak is still a shaddy dude and didn't have a change of heart? or was not a shaddy dude until he had a change of heart and hatched this plan to make LI look like a shaddy dude (thus Nak himself became the shaddy dude)

Because in this particular situation atleast we have atleast one shaddy dude....

 

[SanShou01]

Yeah, I don't know how much I can buy into Nak being a victim of Lloyd's bullying. Maybe he felt some pressure to lie about his success because he didn't want to look like a failure but that's his own ego. If he couldn't tell the Mastermind group "hey this isn't working for me", that's his own fault.

To me it seems like he hustled at those seminars as hard as anyone else. I'm not looking down on him for his business tactics, not exactly, but I don't believe that he was a victim of being bullied. If I could take my gym from 40 students to 500 students in a few years by being bullied, you can start by giving me a wedgie and taking my lunch money

The only thing that I can think of that an established coach like Irvin can have a hold on anyone who's newish and in the process of opening up a gym would be his ability to prevent his higher students from helping to teaching at there new gym and his name.

10 years ago, there weren't many BJJ black belts around. But there were some browns and plenty of purples and a ton of blues. Like the Korean guy who opened up Crazy 88, a TLI affiliate, when he was only a new purple belt....he probably needed some help to make his gym look more legit. Under TLI's banner + maybe some visiting TLI instructors, etc.

But Nakapan was a good MT fighter and at least a brown belt at the time he joined TLI. I know he was around purple in 2000-ish and so was Moses (in BJJ) while at Yamasaki. What the heck could Irvin do to him? He wasn't some rookie who wanted to open an MMA gym and had to rely elsewhere for instructors. He was already a decently accomplished fighter in MMA, MT and BJJ. Think he even got his Black Belt under Pedro Sauer before he opened up Beta. Moses started Evolve while a brown in BJJ I think.

I don't know Nakapan that well, but everyone I know that knows him, always considers him a very nice guy though. But that letter was damn vicious.

 

[Cali Grappler]

Lol, I don't even know how to reply to that. I'll stop now though, you guys can go back to bashing all things LI and praising everything anti-LI. I just hope someone you really hate doesn't come out against LI, that would mean they are good in your book.

I'll have to wait until Nakapan gets his own called out thread, I guess.

 

[lechien]

Yeah people can always develop a conscious. Heck even LI can redeem himself

From experience, he is not gonna change.

At the first, I thought things could have different for him if he trained under a bb until he got his bb.

Promoted to blue after one month training by an instructor leaving is not an ideal start.

He started his gym and added his own moral values to it.

You can easily manipulate and use students . It is damn easy and very tempting.

Li is a real big talker. I listened to him on inside BJJ podcast. He can go on and on. He can even talk for ten minutes on how he does not benefit of the medal chasers getting medals. It was amazing to listen. He just kep going on and on and everything just did not make sense at all.

He had an answer for everything.

BJJ is the right industry for him. It is full of naive students waiting to absorb his knowledge and willingly accept his beliefs.

BJJ team concept is something brought by the brasilians. Creonte etc..he just put his own twist to it.

It is funny as soonest his team does the fingers sign on the podium. I automatically about blood and crips. (Pls note I don't live in the us)

 

[SanShou01]

Nak has admitted to his shitty past of swindling people out of money. His is now trying to make up for it. Lloyd on the otherhand shows no remorse for his past or for his current state of being a lowly shithead.

Seems to me like Irvin just runs his gyms like a Bally's Fitness and such by pressure selling on the memberships and if people break the contract, they send it to collections. Standard with most MMA/BJJ gyms nowadays. I hate those contracts as it keeps students from returning out of embarrassment, etc.

Smaller gyms and more traditional gyms like Yamasaki, don't hard sell contracts yet they still have contracts and collections through a 3rd party also. Go to, say an LA Boxing (which is now a UFC Gym) and see how they try to sell you a membership on the first day and try not to let you go home. Then blasts you with phone calls and emails for months to years, if you didn't buy yet. I think this is what Irvin does.

Other than this, I'm not sure how Irvin swindles people out of money? He's running a business. There's going to be markup on merchandise, fees for seminars, etc. Belt promotion fees, selling uniforms, etc.

Can you tell me how Irvin swindles people's money?

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

I think most gyms don't use this party billing anymore. With the advent of membership management software like mind body, which charges way less per transaction and ease of use member solutions is a dying brand

 

[ElKarlo]

Lol, I don't even know how to reply to that. I'll stop now though, you guys can go back to bashing all things LI and praising everything anti-LI. I just hope someone you really hate doesn't come out against LI, that would mean they are good in your book.

I'll have to wait until Nakapan gets his own called out thread, I guess.

If Ari came out against LI, that'd be the end of the internet

 

[Cali Grappler]

Maybe, maybe not , you at least have posted on other topics but at this point can be very hard to tell the real folks from the zombies. But looking back over the past couple of pages a number of these accounts do stand out

Not that it matters but I bashed LI in many posts. I don't have a lot of posts, so its easy to check.

No need to say a kind word to be an apologist,only you know your motivation.

Are you not buying what he said about LI? As in you think LI is an upright businessman, Nak is really the shaddy guy making it all up to make innocent LI look bad?

Or

About the sincerity of his appology/motivation ? As in you think Nak is still a shaddy dude and didn't have a change of heart? or was not a shaddy dude until he had a change of heart and hatched this plan to make LI look like a shaddy dude (thus Nak himself became the shaddy dude)

Because in this particular situation atleast we have atleast one shaddy dude....

I'm buying that LI is a shady business man (no doubt about it), but I'm thinking Nak didn't mind it as much as he's claiming. That's all.

If Nak had a change of heart, should everyone automatically forgive him for being an LI schill for years? Shouldn't we reserve judgment on him until he proves he's a changed man? He apologized for misleading people and swindling people out of their hard earned money, so obviously he knows he fucked up.

Its easy to jump ship now (when iLI is getting buried by the martial arts community), but it would have meant more if he left when it wasn't so convenient (like when Ryan Hall left).

 

[Cali Grappler]

If Ari came out against LI, that'd be the end of the internet

Haha, dang, man. I was trying to think of another bjj villian to use as an example and came up blank. :icon_cry2

 

[j0ch1n]

Can you tell me how Irvin swindles people's money?

I think most people have a problem with how he creates levels of "membership" in the TLI affiliation. You have the mastermind members paying exorbitant fees who are all upselling other gym owners to higher and higher payment levels. His seminars promise information that he never divulges. He just uses the seminars to make the attendees buy more products. "Here's some information but here's even more information if you buy this DVD set. I'll give you more than that if you come to my next seminar." That sort of thing.

Also, junk like the players' seminar in Vegas. All I can think of is the Chappelle's Show playa hatas ball.

 

[lechien]

Haha, dang, man. I was trying to think of another bjj villian to use as an example and came up blank. :icon_cry2

Brandon quick?

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

Seems to me like Irvin just runs his gyms like a Bally's Fitness and such by pressure selling on the memberships and if people break the contract, they send it to collections. Standard with most MMA/BJJ gyms nowadays. I hate those contracts as it keeps students from returning out of embarrassment, etc.

Smaller gyms and more traditional gyms like Yamasaki, don't hard sell contracts yet they still have contracts and collections through a 3rd party also. Go to, say an LA Boxing (which is now a UFC Gym) and see how they try to sell you a membership on the first day and try not to let you go home. Then blasts you with phone calls and emails for months to years, if you didn't buy yet. I think this is what Irvin does.

Other than this, I'm not sure how Irvin swindles people out of money? He's running a business. There's going to be markup on merchandise, fees for seminars, etc. Belt promotion fees, selling uniforms, etc.

Can you tell me how Irvin swindles people's money?

I was refering to the pyramid marketing schemes he employs.

 

[SanShou01]

From experience, he is not gonna change.

At the first, I thought things could have different for him if he trained under a bb until he got his bb.

Promoted to blue after one month training by an instructor leaving is not an ideal start.

I heard that Irvin was already a beast of a Judoka before he started BJJ. Didn't he get his BJJ black belt in 3.5 years or less and under Leo Dalla? How is this not legit. Whenever a Judoka BB joins BJJ, after training a while and rolling for the senseis to assess their skills....they usually start as a BJJ blue anyway.

And Irvin obviously doesn't just hands out free belts nor sells them at his gym. When Dominique Cruz won his UFC World Title, Irvin promoted him to BLUE belt right in the cage. Damn, Cruz won the UFC Championship belt as a BJJ WHITE belt.

It is full of naive students waiting to absorb his knowledge and willingly accept his beliefs.

Everyone is impressionable up to a certain degree. And why not? Irvin produces UFC contenders and champions. There aren't any places in the entire East Coast that does this to his level. If I were a kid wanting to be in the UFC, I'd check out Irvin too. He charges a shitload of money though, but can you blame him? But those who trains to fight MMA aren't the average bitchboy from TMA gyms who mesmerizes over their 100th dan Grandmaster and the bullshit resume they write about themselves. MMA is a hurt business and plenty of Irvin's fighters can knock Irvin the fuck out if they wanted to. It's not like he's L. Ron Hubbard or something. And I don't buy it that Nakapan was one of these dumbasses for the past 10+ years with his MBA, CPA, etc. plus he was a legit fighter on top.

 

[SanShou01]

If Nak had a change of heart, should everyone automatically forgive him for being an LI schill for years? Shouldn't we reserve judgment on him until he proves he's a changed man? He apologized for misleading people and swindling people out of their hard earned money, so obviously he knows he fucked up.

It's easy to say I'm sorry for taking your money and that's it.

But it's a lot harder to say I'm sorry and to GIVE ALL THE MONEY back. How about the interest too?

The Tax Collector in the Bible gave back like 3x what he stole to his victims.