BETA Academy owner explains ending relationship with Lloyd Irvin

[Balto]

Prior to last year Tom Callos' only claim to martial arts fame was the fact that he introduced BJ Penn to Ralph Gracie and The Prodigy was born. Keenan was a purple belt under BJ Penn two years ago and his father didn't seem to have a problem with him moving six timezones away to join the medal chasers. For all of 2011 Keenan didnt win an IBJJF medal but he had a historic year in 2012. Now Tom Callos wants his son back while he maligns the man that took him from decent grappler to a future BJJ legend.

Bruce Lee was able to market his philosophy because he, himself, could demonstrate its effectiveness. Tom couldn't sell his martial arts philosophy schtick because he wasn't a champion nor could he train someone to become one. Now that his stepson has the BJJ world's attention he wants to turn the spotlight onto himself. He has a martial arts gym consulting business but never had a gym of his own. Really?

I understand that as a parent he was concerned when the incident happened and everyone in the house was held at gunpoint while the cops pulled out the two suspects but that was an isolated incident. His whole diatribe about how the medal chasers should be disbanded is so that he can ride his son's coattails and take credit for everything that Lloyd's system did for Keenan while adding his own philosophy to it.

I may not be in agreeance with Lloyd's business tactics but only a fool would deny the legitmacy of his technical training ability. Maybe Tom Callos can convince a bunch of fools that he knows how to make a champion but anyone with two eyes and common sense will know better.

How long have you been training?

Tom Callos was pretty well known as an instructor on the West Coast martial arts scene in the early 90s before BJJ really came along.

If you're talking strictly about BJJ, then yeah I agree he's mostly known for making introductions for BJ Penn. But for the martial arts overall (especially prior to BJJ becoming popular) he was much more well known than that.

 

[TeeptotheHead]

Long time reader, first time poster. Posting because I know a few people on both sides. Definitely don't put Nak on a pedestal, that's just silly. But I didn't read anything more than apologetic in the tone of his letter. I think the point of his most recent letter was that he was sorry that he DID implement the TLI model. Also, I don't get why the timing is an issue. He said he released the letter when he did because people kept asking him if he was still affiliated with TLI.

Thanks for having me.

 

[GiBurns]

Prior to last year Tom Callos' only claim to martial arts fame was the fact that he introduced BJ Penn to Ralph Gracie and The Prodigy was born. Keenan was a purple belt under BJ Penn two years ago and his father didn't seem to have a problem with him moving six timezones away to join the medal chasers. For all of 2011 Keenan didnt win an IBJJF medal but he had a historic year in 2012. Now Tom Callos wants his son back while he maligns the man that took him from decent grappler to a future BJJ legend.

Bruce Lee was able to market his philosophy because he, himself, could demonstrate its effectiveness. Tom couldn't sell his martial arts philosophy schtick because he wasn't a champion nor could he train someone to become one. Now that his stepson has the BJJ world's attention he wants to turn the spotlight onto himself. He has a martial arts gym consulting business but never had a gym of his own. Really?

I understand that as a parent he was concerned when the incident happened and everyone in the house was held at gunpoint while the cops pulled out the two suspects but that was an isolated incident. His whole diatribe about how the medal chasers should be disbanded is so that he can ride his son's coattails and take credit for everything that Lloyd's system did for Keenan while adding his own philosophy to it.

I may not be in agreeance with Lloyd's business tactics but only a fool would deny the legitmacy of his technical training ability. Maybe Tom Callos can convince a bunch of fools that he knows how to make a champion but anyone with two eyes and common sense will know better.

Tom Callos was well know in the martial arts community well before this year and is known for alot more than just being BJ Penn's first BJJ teacher. Many in Jiu Jitsu were introduced to him through Keenan and Penn but Callos has had a long, successful career before "riding the coattails of his son".

Callos also owned his own martial arts school and has been a teacher for decades, much longer than "Master" Lloyd. It's fine to believe Callos is being opportunistic by attacking Lloyd at this current time, but don't discredit him like he is some nobody.

 

[j1ujitzu]

I would like to put one more thing out there. I notice that when somebody says something that possibly makes sense (like I think I did about Nak) and goes against the "norm" there are not many comments on that post. It kind of gets skipped over so that everyone can keep the hate going. And while I am putting it out there, I might as well put this one out there too. Jiu-Jitsu brings in people from all walks of life. Especially in the MMA scene. Have you ever become friends with someone at your academy, maybe someone who looked like a "tough" guy but didn't act it, and then a year or two down the road after being pretty close to them for that time, found out they had a something really bad in their history from forever ago, but since you know them and they are nothing like what they were before you overlook it? I once worked for the coolest guy and then found out he used to work for the Sheriff's Department and had robbed some jewelry stores but by then we were good so I just overlooked it. I think too much is being placed on what happened 20 or so years ago and should be focused more on the two guys who are really horrible, awful, despicable people, which by the way I don't think can be taught by someone to be that way.

 

[Eric O]

I would like to put one more thing out there. I notice that when somebody says something that possibly makes sense (like I think I did about Nak) and goes against the "norm" there are not many comments on that post. It kind of gets skipped over so that everyone can keep the hate going. And while I am putting it out there, I might as well put this one out there too. Jiu-Jitsu brings in people from all walks of life. Especially in the MMA scene. Have you ever become friends with someone at your academy, maybe someone who looked like a "tough" guy but didn't act it, and then a year or two down the road after being pretty close to them for that time, found out they had a something really bad in their history from forever ago, but since you know them and they are nothing like what they were before you overlook it? I once worked for the coolest guy and then found out he used to work for the Sheriff's Department and had robbed some jewelry stores but by then we were good so I just overlooked it. I think too much is being placed on what happened 20 or so years ago and should be focused more on the two guys who are really horrible, awful, despicable people, which by the way I don't think can be taught by someone to be that way.

C'mon Lloyd!!!!!!!

 

[j1ujitzu]

Long time reader, first time poster. Posting because I know a few people on both sides. Definitely don't put Nak on a pedestal, that's just silly. But I didn't read anything more than apologetic in the tone of his letter. I think the point of his most recent letter was that he was sorry that he DID implement the TLI model. Also, I don't get why the timing is an issue. He said he released the letter when he did because people kept asking him if he was still affiliated with TLI.

Thanks for having me.

Why is he so easy to forgive? In my book he is a piece of shit. You can cut ties with something but you don't need to do what he did. He had cut ties over a month ago and it was posted so people knew. I still want my money back from the DVD's I bought that he apparently lied about.

 

[anaconda]

I would like to put one more thing out there. I notice that when somebody says something that possibly makes sense (like I think I did about Nak) and goes against the "norm" there are not many comments on that post. It kind of gets skipped over so that everyone can keep the hate going. And while I am putting it out there, I might as well put this one out there too. Jiu-Jitsu brings in people from all walks of life. Especially in the MMA scene. Have you ever become friends with someone at your academy, maybe someone who looked like a "tough" guy but didn't act it, and then a year or two down the road after being pretty close to them for that time, found out they had a something really bad in their history from forever ago, but since you know them and they are nothing like what they were before you overlook it? I once worked for the coolest guy and then found out he used to work for the Sheriff's Department and had robbed some jewelry stores but by then we were good so I just overlooked it. I think too much is being placed on what happened 20 or so years ago and should be focused more on the two guys who are really horrible, awful, despicable people, which by the way I don't think can be taught by someone to be that way.

If someone did something a long time ago, owned up for it, feels remorse, and moves on then that is fine. I believe it is very important to forgive and move on.

However, nothing from Lloyd's actions have ever displayed an iota of remorse. He claims to be immune to criticism, above everyone else (3%er) and that anyone that isn't on board is a hater.

This is not the attitude of someone that has learned from his mistakes and has grown as a person. This is most obvious with the "explanations" he gives when he is called out.

 

[KGB256]

C'mon Lloyd!!!!!!!

You're kind of a one-trick pony in this thread. If all you're going to do is repeat the same 2-3 wisecracks over and over, could you at least make them funny ones?

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

Why is he so easy to forgive? In my book he is a piece of shit. You can cut ties with something but you don't need to do what he did. He had cut ties over a month ago and it was posted so people knew. I still want my money back from the DVD's I bought that he apparently lied about.

So if that makes Nak a p.o.s. in your eyes, how do you feel about Lloyd? His gang rape activities from 1989, his shitty underhanded marketing pyramid schemes etc.?

 

[Eric O]

You're kind of a one-trick pony in this thread. If all you're going to do is repeat the same 2-3 wisecracks over and over, could you at least make them funny ones?

Btw, I heard that TLI is starting a BJJ colony is South America, its going to be called Irvinstown.

 

[ElKarlo]

Yeah drop ghetto. As it is racially loaded, and we've done an excellent job of making sure that is a non issue so far

 

[j1ujitzu]

If someone did something a long time ago, owned up for it, feels remorse, and moves on then that is fine. I believe it is very important to forgive and move on.

However, nothing from Lloyd's actions have ever displayed an iota of remorse. He claims to be immune to criticism, above everyone else (3%er) and that anyone that isn't on board is a hater.

This is not the attitude of someone that has learned from his mistakes and has grown as a person. This is most obvious with the "explanations" he gives when he is called out.

Fair enough. He waited WAY to long to say anything about the NYE incident I agree. And he does have a way of making people not like him that's for sure. I guess I am looking at it like maybe that is why he is doing rape prevention seminars to begin with because he feels he should after his past but just hasn't responded to criticism of it because he feels he shouldn't have to explain himself. Who knows. I am just making assumptions here based on nothing. Just stuff that has crossed my mind since all this started.

 

[ElKarlo]

C'mon Lloyd!!!!!!!

The guy does like to ramble.

We would have forgiven you Lloyd had you owned up to this. But you instead acted like an idiot and so here we are

 

[ElKarlo]

So if that makes Nak a p.o.s. in your eyes, how do you feel about Lloyd? His gang rape activities from 1989, his shitty underhanded marketing pyramid schemes etc.?

No way. He's above criticism

 

[KJGould]

Newport News no longer has the documents locally. Most likely the originals or copies are in Richmond as has been said.

 

[j1ujitzu]

So if that makes Nak a p.o.s. in your eyes, how do you feel about Lloyd? His gang rape activities from 1989, his shitty underhanded marketing pyramid schemes etc.?

Honestly, I think his activities from 1989 are so incredibly long ago and wouldn't have even been brought up if not for it being Lloyd. Maybe he couldn't get hard because he wasn't aroused by what was going on but these were his friends and he couldn't show weakness to his friends? Who the hell knows? I certainly don't. As far as the marketing stuff, I learned a few things from his seminar but most of it I would never do in a million years. But, apparently it works and he has made tons of money that he doesn't hesitate to throw in everyone's face. Personally, I just couldn't be that pushing and do 1/2 the stuff he AND Nak spoke about at the seminar. But Nak was lying and I still want my money back!! This is all conjecture on my part and in no way am I downplaying the 1989 incident. I am just throwing out some stuff for the sake of discussion. I should've been a lawyer. Trying to place doubt in the jury's mind! BTW, ignore the smiley. Don't know how it got there. New to this.

 

[Aethyr]

I don't know why you guys are even responding to devnull. You can't convince him and you never will. The fact that he says in one breath that a jury didn't convict LI and then in another claims that juries wrongfully convict is 100% proof you can't convince him. He will look you in the eye and tell you the sky is not blue when you're both staring at a blue sky and then call you a hater for telling him otherwise. Whether he's LI himself is irrelevant. Whether he believes his own bullshit is irrelevant. His online persona is 100% troll designed to whip you up in a frenzy of righteous indignation, all the while maintaining innocence, that he's entitled to his dissenting opinion, but secretly sitting back and laughing and enjoying the fruits of his discordant labor.

 

[BizarroPutin]

Right below KBevovle has seen the same.. Everyone is human and not perfect we all have our fallacies.

LOL

"when trying to use words goes wrong"

I'm trying to decide if this is merely an amusing failed attempt at trying to sound educated, or if it constitutes an actual Freudian Slip

it's gems like this that keep me coming back

 

[KGB256]

Fair enough. He waited WAY to long to say anything about the NYE incident I agree. And he does have a way of making people not like him that's for sure. I guess I am looking at it like maybe that is why he is doing rape prevention seminars to begin with because he feels he should after his past but just hasn't responded to criticism of it because he feels he shouldn't have to explain himself. Who knows. I am just making assumptions here based on nothing. Just stuff that has crossed my mind since all this started.

He made a statement about the NYE incident the same day it appeared in the news that they had been arrested. Literally within hours of the story going public, he made a statement about it.

The second statement was in response to the revelation of the 1989 case, which he did not make earlier based on the advice of his attorney. He ignored that advice to make his statement approximately 3 weeks after the NYE case first went public.

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

Honestly, I think his activities from 1989 are so incredibly long ago and wouldn't have even been brought up if not for it being Lloyd. Maybe he couldn't get hard because he wasn't aroused by what was going on but these were his friends and he couldn't show weakness to his friends? Who the hell knows? I certainly don't. As far as the marketing stuff, I learned a few things from his seminar but most of it I would never do in a million years. But, apparently it works and he has made tons of money that he doesn't hesitate to throw in everyone's face. Personally, I just couldn't be that pushing and do 1/2 the stuff he AND Nak spoke about at the seminar. But Nak was lying and I still want my money back!! This is all conjecture on my part and in no way am I downplaying the 1989 incident. I am just throwing out some stuff for the sake of discussion. I should've been a lawyer. Trying to place doubt in the jury's mind! BTW, ignore the smiley. Don't know how it got there. New to this.

Well you definately show much more intelligence than Devnull, and I applaud you for that.