BETA Academy owner explains ending relationship with Lloyd Irvin

[DPS831]

Yeah they are probably buried somewhere in Richmond.

The reason why nobody has dug them up is because they are just going to say basically the same stuff as the articles. It's going to be pretty stupid to drive down to Richmond, search through archives, dig up tons of paper, scan it all in, and publish it online just to have the exact same stuff in the article repeated.

Plus if that actually happens, then guys like devnull can't use that reason to deny it anymore. So obviously the guys using it as denial don't want to do it either.

I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that (depending on the state) someone can have a criminal record, that resulted in dismissal or acquittal, sealed or expunged after a certain amount of time. However, if the defendant was tried with others who were found guilty, I'm sure his name would show up in those court records which remain open to the public.

 

[karma2burn]

Yeah they are probably buried somewhere in Richmond.

Plus if that actually happens, then guys like devnull can't use that reason to deny it anymore. So obviously the guys using it as denial don't want to do it either.

Nope. I can guarantee you every single LI defender would find some reason to discredit it. That's their MO.

Just look at those facebook posts. No matter how well thought out and intelligent the posts made that were attacking them, they just resorted to dumb replies like c'mon son. It's like arguing with a wall. Nothing you say no matter how intelligent or logical makes any difference to them. I guarantee you they are all instructed to respond in this manner until the person attacking them just gives up out of sheer frustration.

 

[KILL KILL]

Just because a Jury found them guilty doesn't mean shit. How many people are innocent or convicted by juries on racism or wrong shit in prison. Remember that movie Hurricane about Rubin Carter?? Just because a Jury convicts you of murder does not mean you committed murder.

WITH THAT SAID, I am not saying they were all not guilty or guilty we don't know the jury just found it to be that way.

This is nonsensical and one of the silliest things I've read on Sherdog. You sir drank the lloyd ivin koolaid.

 

[lechien]

Typical unwilling to put your money where you mouth is, and making more shit up, lol this is really funny. If this then that blah blah

I think it is possible that one of the haters will eventually come up with the documents.

Now the question is are they available?

 

[Balto]

Typical unwilling to put your money where you mouth is, and making more shit up, lol this is really funny. If this then that blah blah

What are you talking about?

Take your allowance from Master Lloyd and go to Richmond. Prove us wrong with the court documents.

 

[devnull]

What are you talking about?

Take your allowance from Master Lloyd and go to Richmond. Prove us wrong with the court documents.

You want the court documents go get them, you want answers go talk to Master Lloyd put up or shut up or keep making shit up. Either way fine by me.

 

[j1ujitzu]

So I have been lurking around reading everything for the past few months and now after the Nakaphan thing I have something to say so I a log in name and here goes. I am sure I will get tons of hate stuff back at me but I am going to give my thoughts.

I think this letter Nakaphan put out is a really low, unethical thing to do. First of all, he talks about Lloyd bullying him. Well his latest letter is pure bullying pure and simple. I have no respect for someone who leaves cuts ties with someone/something he has been doing and then decides a month later they are going to totally talk crap and bash the other person. You guys all have so much hatred for LI that you are actually on Nakaphan's side and think it is so cool he did this, even though the video shows he is full of crap. (I will get back to that in a minute). Take LI and Nakaphan out of the equation. If these were any other two people you would all be saying that Nakaphan is a piece of shit for doing what he did. And, you would be on the side of the person who released the video proving otherwise. Now back to the video and my response to that. I went to Lloyd's seminar because I thought I could learn something to help me with my academy. Now I totally am like others and hate the emails that go on forever and the pop ups on the website and all that crap. I hate the hard sell and the upgrades and that, but I have to say that if what Nakaphan was actually lying and doing all this under duress, he should be nominated for an Academy Award. He was exactly how he is seen in the videos, and was on stage a lot and was friends with everyone, laughing and all that. He was selling his DVD set with the "but wait, don't order yet" mentality and the fake price of what it is really worth but you can get for way less. Well, since Nakaphan has freely admitted he was lying (backpedaling is a more appropriate word in my opinion) I would like to know how I can get my money back since it was quite expensive and I don't have that kind of money to throw around like he does. I think Nakaphan is a piece of shit for what he is now putting out about Lloyd in his letter.

 

[Murdoch]

Why would I go into the what if Lloyd would do game? That is purely hypothetical reasoning. I have stated that the acts of rape are wrong and if they are found guilty they should be punished to the full extent of the law. If anyone commits a crime like rape, murder, the really deadly sin no I don't want to be associated with them. Master Lloyd is involved in the current case and the 20 year old case was dealt with and closed, its a closed matter, everything on that subject has been at that speculation off news articles, that is my view point on that nothing has come along or been brought up to make it seem otherwise. Do answer yoour question yes there are things that would sway my opinion absolutely but I don't believe he has done any of that for me to feel that way even close.

I was simply trying to establish what it would take for you to change your view. You speak out of both sides of your mouth when you say that lloyd was acquitted and then go on to say that courts can screw things up and wrongly convict people. So can we trust the courts or not?

At this point you offer no real counterpoints to anything. I may be in the minority but I could care less what your real identity is. You obviously have reservations for some reason on not posting anything about it. That's your right of course. It just weakens your convictions in the eyes of most people here.

I appreciate you posting all the time, it keeps these threads going!

 

[devnull]

So I have been lurking around reading everything for the past few months and now after the Nakaphan thing I have something to say so I a log in name and here goes. I am sure I will get tons of hate stuff back at me but I am going to give my thoughts.

I think this letter Nakaphan put out is a really low, unethical thing to do. First of all, he talks about Lloyd bullying him. Well his latest letter is pure bullying pure and simple. I have no respect for someone who leaves cuts ties with someone/something he has been doing and then decides a month later they are going to totally talk crap and bash the other person. You guys all have so much hatred for LI that you are actually on Nakaphan's side and think it is so cool he did this, even though the video shows he is full of crap. (I will get back to that in a minute). Take LI and Nakaphan out of the equation. If these were any other two people you would all be saying that Nakaphan is a piece of shit for doing what he did. And, you would be on the side of the person who released the video proving otherwise. Now back to the video and my response to that. I went to Lloyd's seminar because I thought I could learn something to help me with my academy.

LOL dude welcome I like you was a long time lurker and came to join and immediately was flooded with hatred for TLI. They say what would Lloyd have to do to change my mind but yet their minds are forever tainted.

Nice post and thanks for your comments on the matter.

 

[illbert]

The reason why nobody has dug them up is because they are just going to say basically the same stuff as the articles. It's going to be pretty stupid to drive down to Richmond, search through archives, dig up tons of paper, scan it all in, and publish it online just to have the exact same stuff in the article repeated.

Given the impact that this has had on the Martial Arts community at large I believe that if the public could get their hands on these documents then someone would have done it by now. They are likely unavailable for the reason I already gave.

For a case of this nature I find it very unlikely for even a technicality to be the cause of his acquittal. I know that the way the law handles rape has changed considerably in different states over the last two decades but even a half-wit prosecutor would have tacked on a slew of other possible charges like attempted rape, conspiracy (knowingly being around a crime and doing nothing), assault, etc. To tell the jury that their only options are first-degree rape or not guilty means that the state should've had strong evidence connecting the alleged attackers. Either the prosecutor made an extremely dumb move or there is more to the case than six or so newspaper articles are explaining. I'm inclined to believe the latter because saying that you were in the presence of a rape-in-progress and wanted to be a part of it even though to didn't partake is enough to convict you of at least a lesser crime.

 

[devnull]

I was simply trying to establish what it would take for you to change your view. You speak out of both sides of your mouth when you say that lloyd was acquitted and then go on to say that courts can screw things up and wrongly convict people. So can we trust the courts or not?

At this point you offer no real counterpoints to anything. I may be in the minority but I could care less what your real identity is. You obviously have reservations for some reason on not posting anything about it. That's your right of course. It just weakens your convictions in the eyes of most people here.

I appreciate you posting all the time, it keeps these threads going!

Why thank you sir. I keep posting because I am truly not a troll and am trying to have reasonable arguments. Some people find them into far left field but its really how I feel from the heart. Can we trust the courts, I say for the most part we can especially in today's society with all the technological advancements in medical, dna, recording etc... more so than 20 years ago.

My real counterpoints are that we are basing this off articles written 20 years ago and no source to reference, I think and believe in my heart its 100% unfair to judge Lloyd based on this sole information. With that said I answered your question is yes a person can do things to change my view but I don't feel he has. I appreciate your candid discussion with me.

 

[Balto]

You want the court documents go get them, you want answers go talk to Master Lloyd put up or shut up or keep making shit up. Either way fine by me.

Lloyd doesn't want to talk dude. He's had plenty of chances to come clean. The closest he came was his half ass apology letter where he only really apologized for the cover up while he was simultaneously starting another cover up.

I've "put up" plenty of evidence here. But you just say all the evidence is haterade.

 

[Murdoch]

Why thank you sir. I keep posting because I am truly not a troll and am trying to have reasonable arguments. Some people find them into far left field but its really how I feel from the heart. Can we trust the courts, I say for the most part we can especially in today's society with all the technological advancements in medical, dna, recording etc... more so than 20 years ago.

My real counterpoints are that we are basing this off articles written 20 years ago and no source to reference, I think and believe in my heart its 100% unfair to judge Lloyd based on this sole information. With that said I answered your question is yes a person can do things to change my view but I don't feel he has. I appreciate your candid discussion with me.

I think one of the things that hurts your overall argument is that no matter what allegation comes out you have an excuse or argument for lloyd. I agree that every story has two sides and that the truth usually lies in a gray area between them. I just find it hypocritical that you say some people are entrenched on one side of the lloyd drama but you're very entrenched on the other side. Can you see that? I agree that some people are looking to hang lloyd out no matter what. I just think the preponderance of evidence across many areas makes him to be a less than desirable person. lloyd also contradicts himself a lot. On one hand he says a bunch of nobodys are attacking him but feels the need to make a video response. I thought that 3%ers were immune to criticism. I try to keep an open mind. lloyd makes some decent points in his video but it often gets overshadowed by his persona and crass remarks by his students. I'm conflicted on why JT and Keenan have been so silent on things. On one hand it's good to see they haven't sided with lloyd but on the other I'm surprised they haven't spoken out. I would hope personal conviction surpasses loyalty in this case. We shall see what their true colors are as time goes by. What i'd really be interested in knowing is would they have joined the team today knowing all that has gone on?

 

[ElKarlo]

That argument cuts both ways; plenty of guilty people have been found innocent.

But they weren't on TLI so they don't count

 

[devnull]

Lloyd doesn't want to talk dude. He's had plenty of chances to come clean. The closest he came was his half ass apology letter where he only really apologized for the cover up while he was simultaneously starting another cover up.

I've "put up" plenty of evidence here. But you just say all the evidence is haterade.

I've answered your questions well before your arguments came up!!!

1. Statement released late because of legal advice/ lawyers etc. ( I've said this many times over and over, but people kept ignoring this and said , " it's too late he's done, ohhhh its the fall of TLI <----- lol )
2. He owes you no explanation on his past, closed matter. ( If you want answers be a man/woman go ask him in person you will get a response )
3. Cover up = business protection / promotion of business family and rape victim ( you all see it in other ways that is your opinion)

I say haters, but it is a lot of hate, but I respect it and will keep debating with it if you so may.

 

[ElKarlo]

Nope. I can guarantee you every single LI defender would find some reason to discredit it. That's their MO.

Just look at those facebook posts. No matter how well thought out and intelligent the posts made that were attacking them, they just resorted to dumb replies like c'mon son. It's like arguing with a wall. Nothing you say no matter how intelligent or logical makes any difference to them. I guarantee you they are all instructed to respond in this manner until the person attacking them just gives up out of sheer frustration.

Yep LI is living his dream of being Tony whatever from scar face. He's becoming an actual gangster with his own thugs

 

[devnull]

I think one of the things that hurts your overall argument is that no matter what allegation comes out you have an excuse or argument for lloyd. I agree that every story has two sides and that the truth usually lies in a gray area between them. I just find it hypocritical that you say some people are entrenched on one side of the lloyd drama but you're very entrenched on the other side. Can you see that? I agree that some people are looking to hang lloyd out no matter what. I just think the preponderance of evidence across many areas makes him to be a less than desirable person. lloyd also contradicts himself a lot. On one hand he says a bunch of nobodys are attacking him but feels the need to make a video response. I thought that 3%ers were immune to criticism. I try to keep an open mind. lloyd makes some decent points in his video but it often gets overshadowed by his persona and crass remarks by his students. I'm conflicted on why JT and Keenan have been so silent on things. On one hand it's good to see they haven't sided with lloyd but on the other I'm surprised they haven't spoken out. I would hope personal conviction surpasses loyalty in this case. We shall see what their true colors are as time goes by. What i'd really be interested in knowing is would they have joined the team today knowing all that has gone on?

I understand and see where you are coming from. If the preponderance of evidence is the same that we have been arguing over than you know my view on that no need to restate it.

To answer your question I believe a lot of folks based on the way people are talking online and jumping to conclusions about Lloyd would not join the team right but we don't want them anyway. We want loyal people 100% behind the TLI and becoming better and Jiu-Jitsu and chasing medals, helping the kids program come up, not at the expense of raping people or committing crimes / being a bad person.

On JT and Keenan, why would they have to speak out, It speaks for itself that they still training part of the team. Time will tell as you have said, but I believe it will be strong times for the TLI family.

 

[illbert]

So I have been lurking around reading everything for the past few months and now after the Nakaphan thing I have something to say so I a log in name and here goes. I am sure I will get tons of hate stuff back at me but I am going to give my thoughts.

I think this letter Nakaphan put out is a really low, unethical thing to do. First of all, he talks about Lloyd bullying him. Well his latest letter is pure bullying pure and simple. I have no respect for someone who leaves cuts ties with someone/something he has been doing and then decides a month later they are going to totally talk crap and bash the other person. You guys all have so much hatred for LI that you are actually on Nakaphan's side and think it is so cool he did this, even though the video shows he is full of crap. (I will get back to that in a minute). Take LI and Nakaphan out of the equation. If these were any other two people you would all be saying that Nakaphan is a piece of shit for doing what he did. And, you would be on the side of the person who released the video proving otherwise. Now back to the video and my response to that. I went to Lloyd's seminar because I thought I could learn something to help me with my academy. Now I totally am like others and hate the emails that go on forever and the pop ups on the website and all that crap. I hate the hard sell and the upgrades and that, but I have to say that if what Nakaphan was actually lying and doing all this under duress, he should be nominated for an Academy Award. He was exactly how he is seen in the videos, and was on stage a lot and was friends with everyone, laughing and all that. He was selling his DVD set with the "but wait, don't order yet" mentality and the fake price of what it is really worth but you can get for way less. Well, since Nakaphan has freely admitted he was lying (backpedaling is a more appropriate word in my opinion) I would like to know how I can get my money back since it was quite expensive and I don't have that kind of money to throw around like he does. I think Nakaphan is a piece of shit for what he is now putting out about Lloyd in his letter.

Personally, I think Nakapan is full of it for claiming that being bullied when he was younger caused him to be initimidated as a grown man, BJJ black belt (who went up against Gabriel Gonzaga for crying out loud). Anyone with an IQ over 80 would go to the police if someone threatened them with a gun and get a restraining order. If someone is crazy enough to aim a gun at you then they are likely bold enough to fire it. Plus I think that Lloyd appreciates his freedom more than any money Nakapan could have generated for him to even threaten his life with a deadly weapon.

What really caught me was when Nakapan mentioned his software program by name at least twice. The initial story seems like a lure to draw pity. The hook looks to be "by my martial arts academy software." If he feels so bad about what he's done in the Lloyd cartel then he should sell his BMW and pay back the people he screwed over for his "ill-gotten gains." What's also fishy is how he first said he left because Lloyd didn't speak out enough against rape, a crime that his wife is a survivor of, but then hooked up with Tom Callos and now has a mouthload of criticism for the TLI business model.

Im not saying that I agree with Lloyd's business practices because anytime someone says that they can make you money if you give them yours it's a scheme in their favor. What I will say is that Nakapan and Tom Callos appear to be hatching a scheme of their own.

 

[GiBurns]

I understand and see where you are coming from. If the preponderance of evidence is the same that we have been arguing over than you know my view on that no need to restate it.

To answer your question I believe a lot of folks based on the way people are talking online and jumping to conclusions about Lloyd would not join the team right but we don't want them anyway. We want loyal people 100% behind the TLI and becoming better and Jiu-Jitsu and chasing medals, helping the kids program come up, not at the expense of raping people or committing crimes / being a bad person.

On JT and Keenan, why would they have to speak out, It speaks for itself that they still training part of the team. Time will tell as you have said, but I believe it will be strong times for the TLI family.

Oh so you are a member of Team Lloyd Irvin?

 

[seatea]

To answer your question I believe a lot of folks based on the way people are talking online and jumping to conclusions about Lloyd would not join the team right but we don't want them anyway.

But you 'jumped to the conclusion' (your words) that the reporters were biased. You cannot have it both ways.

We want loyal people 100% behind the TLI and becoming better and Jiu-Jitsu and chasing medals, helping the kids program come up, not at the expense of raping people or committing crimes / being a bad person.

So you are part of TLI.