Best Grappling Base: BJJ vs Sambo vs Catch Wrestling

[D 1 Wrestler]

They all can be very effective if the fighter is Legit... Sambo - Fedor and Khabib ... BJJ - Ortega has looked next level... Wrestling - Most American Fighters with experience can control the fight.

Ortega was getting embarrassed by clay guida in grappling until the last 20 seconds. Frankie could have done the same but like many wrestlers falls in love with his hands, with guida this never happened

 

[tasticles]

Do you have a list of mma fighters with a catch wrestling base? When I have seen clips of the training techniques and the techniques by Erik Paulson it seems like a really interesting style. It comes across as a violent and aggressive grappling style.

As for combat sambo, Fedor and Khabib have been dominant it goes to show the effectiveness of the style. I wonder how many of the techniques can be transitioned over once the gi is eliminated.

Ken shamrock, Frank shamrock, Josh barnett, Matt Larson off the top of my head. I train submission wrestling and bjj but if i was getting ready for an mma match i would devote my time to muay Thai and submission

 

[cooks1]

American folk style wrestling is the best base—period.

Even though lay and pray sucks shit, it wins fights.

Folk style is the best way to control where the fight goes. Its the best way to be a competitive fighter while you’re still developing your other skills.

Absolutely this. More UFC champions and contenders come from a high level background in this discipline than any other. And it is not close. Not remotely close. The next closest discipline is miles away.

It can be boring but it does not have to be. Matt Hughes had 13 fights either for or with the belt. With 10 finishes, 2 finish losses and only 1 decision. 12 of 13 fights with finishes. Chuck liddell and Hendricks were both wrestlers, known for their KO's. Bones. Cain. Could go on and on. Lots of great wrestlers were/are also exciting fighters

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Also, maia has lost to basically every elite wrestler he faced

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Ken shamrock, Frank shamrock, Josh barnett, Matt Larson off the top of my head. I train submission wrestling and bjj but if i was getting ready for an mma match i would devote my time to muay Thai and submission

Yeah it seems like if someone is getting into mma then they should seriously look into submission wrestling. BJJ gyms have grown in popularity and many mma gyms seem to focus on BJJ as their grappling base. Submission wrestling and combat sambo may be getting overlooked eventhough they are very effective.

 

[tasticles]

Yeah it seems like if someone is getting into mma then they should seriously look into submission wrestling. BJJ gyms have grown in popularity and many mma gyms seem to focus on BJJ as their grappling base. Submission wrestling and combat sambo may be getting overlooked eventhough they are very effective.

Judo is very over looked too btw. Trained that for 3 years prior and developed a nasty scarf hold pin. It's also instinctive to follow up. You can pick up a lot of good things from all grappling

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Absolutely this. More UFC champions and contenders come from a high level background in this discipline than any other. And it is not close. Not remotely close. The next closest discipline is miles away.

It can be boring but it does not have to be. Matt Hughes had 13 fights either for or with the belt. With 10 finishes, 2 finish losses and only 1 decision. 12 of 13 fights with finishes. Chuck liddell and Hendricks were both wrestlers, known for their KO's. Bones. Cain. Could go on and on. Lots of great wrestlers were/are also exciting fighters

Well part of the issue is that prospective and current mma fighters may be restricted over the styles they can train. Some of those wrestling styles may only be accesible to high school and college athletes. Can people pay to learn those styles otherwise and is it even affordable? For everyone else they have access to what they can pay for and or afford. BJJ, Combat Sambo and Submission/Catch Wrestling styles tend to have gyms that people can pay to train at. If they were to choose one which would give them the best chance of being succesful as an mma fighter? If there are other styles that you would recommend, which and why? Also are these additional styles accesible to all to train?

 

[riitzni]

Can you elaborate or post some clips?

I haven't seen as many succesful mma fighters that come from a judo background so that is why I didn't include it. Although I remember Karo Parisyan was very effective. Can you educate me on randori and newaza? I am not familiar so I am not quite sure what you are referring to. Thanks

You have, they're just more subtle since MMA is as striking oriented as the two particular fighters in the cage allow.

Randori is the term for practice, aka getting tossed on your head over and over until you learn how to stop being a scrub. It hurts. It's not for everyone. But Kano Jigoro knew that hard practice could not be done without.

Newaza is the term for ground techniques aka the entirety of BJJ's arsenal. The armbar, the gi chokes, the rear naked choke, you can thank judo for all of it. It was taken out of competition with an extremely short time limit on the ground because it made the sport more spectator friendly. But old school judo had/has no time limits.

Clips? Shit man. I don't even know where to start. How about the entire careers of Fedor? Ronda Rousey? You might have heard of Masahiko Kimura? The judo god that broke Grandmaster Helio's arm? Ever see Khabib Nurmagomedov reap someone like they were a sack of potatoes? The Dong, Dong Hyun Kim? Sexyama? It could take days doing that.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Judo is very over looked too btw. Trained that for 3 years prior and developed a nasty scarf hold pin. It's also instinctive to follow up. You can pick up a lot of good things from all grappling

Part of what I am interested in is the best style to match with boxing. I think boxing is the best striking base to work with. I find that combat sambo, judo and greco-wrestling and possible catch wrestling work well with the boxing techniques. Alternatively I find BJJ and some of the other wrestling styles to not be very conducive with boxing techniques.

So I guess another question I could have had in this thread would be which grappling style match well with which striking styles?

 

[tasticles]

Well part of the issue is that prospective and current mma fighters may be restricted over the styles they can train. Some of those wrestling styles may only be accesible to high school and college athletes. Can people pay to learn those styles otherwise and is it even affordable? For everyone else they have access to what they can pay for and or afford. BJJ, Combat Sambo and Submission/Catch Wrestling styles tend to have gyms that people can pay to train at. If they were to choose one which would give them the best chance of being succesful as an mma fighter? If there are other styles that you would recommend, which and why? Also are these additional styles accesible to all to train?

Freestyle wrestling is already incorporated in catch and if they haven't spent quite a while training submission defense they can be choked out quite easily because it also teaches some bad habits. A good mma coach is most important

 

[tasticles]

Part of what I am interested in is the best style to match with boxing. I think boxing is the best striking base to work with. I find that combat sambo, judo and greco-wrestling and possible catch wrestling work well with the boxing techniques. Alternatively I find BJJ and some of the other wrestling styles to not be very conducive with boxing techniques.

So I guess another question I could have had in this thread would be which grappling style match well with which striking styles?

Still going with catch brother. Boxing is wonderful and my striking base. Did that also while in the active army. I now train muay Thai to get used to checking kicks or utilizing striking in the clinch better. You need to pull a max Holloway and close distance on muay Thai fighters bit it's good to train everything

 

[RAFI BOMB]

You have, they're just more subtle since MMA is as striking oriented as the two particular fighters in the cage allow.

Randori is the term for practice, aka getting tossed on your head over and over until you learn how to stop being a scrub. It hurts. It's not for everyone. But Kano Jigoro knew that hard practice could not be done without.

Newaza is the term for ground techniques aka the entirety of BJJ's arsenal. The armbar, the gi chokes, the rear naked choke, you can thank judo for all of it. It was taken out of competition with an extremely short time limit on the ground because it made the sport more spectator friendly. But old school judo had/has no time limits.

Clips? Shit man. I don't even know where to start. How about the entire careers of Fedor? Ronda Rousey? You might have heard of Masahiko Kimura? The judo god that broke Grandmaster Helio's arm? Ever see Khabib Nurmagomedov reap someone like they were a sack of potatoes? The Dong, Dong Hyun Kim? Sexyama? It could take days doing that.

I like the throws in judo. It is one of the things that I don't like about BJJ and what I see in many of the wrestling styles. BJJ doesn't really have violent throws at all. I like the suplexes in wrestling but I am not certain which styles emphasize them and which don't. I also like the throws in Judo and Sambo. They are violent and they are designed to cause harm.

 

[Wicked_1]

I'm thinking Sambo as it is a mix of several disciplines.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Part of what I am interested in is the best style to match with boxing. I think boxing is the best striking base to work with. I find that combat sambo, judo and greco-wrestling and possible catch wrestling work well with the boxing techniques. Alternatively I find BJJ and some of the other wrestling styles to not be very conducive with boxing techniques.

So I guess another question I could have had in this thread would be which grappling style match well with which striking styles?

Greco is terrible, no leg attacks. Freestyle would be better to pair with boxing for takedowns and takedown defense but as others have said American folkstyle wrestling is the best. Combine that with good boxing and basic submission defense and you have him Jones, cogar , stipe, MM, dillasnake, etc

 

[cooks1]

Well part of the issue is that prospective and current mma fighters may be restricted over the styles they can train. Some of those wrestling styles may only be accesible to high school and college athletes. Can people pay to learn those styles otherwise and is it even affordable? For everyone else they have access to what they can pay for and or afford. BJJ, Combat Sambo and Submission/Catch Wrestling styles tend to have gyms that people can pay to train at. If they were to choose one which would give them the best chance of being succesful as an mma fighter? If there are other styles that you would recommend, which and why? Also are these additional styles accesible to all to train?

Wrestling is probably one of the least expensive sports there is. But you need to start early unless you are a freak. If you want your son to be a MMA champ, get him out to the midwest or PA and start him wrestling young.

Make no mistake- A very disproportionate % of future elite fighters are sitting in the NCAA wrestling tournament brackets, or on college wrestling teams.

2004:
http://nwhof.org/NCAA-Brackets/PDF/NCAA 2004.pdf

Johnny Hendricks
Jacob Volkmann
Ben Askren
Jake Rosholt
Ryan Bader
Pat Cummins
Cole Conrad.

It takes 5-6 years from college wreslting for most of them to cook in the oven.

 

[Kaybee]

If I also can pick something else for my striking base then good ol' wrastling for sure.

If I can only pick one and fight in MMA as a specialist in one style then combat sambo.

 

[beastman]

Catch wrestling

 

[Sapp]

Also, maia has lost to basically every elite wrestler he faced

h

 

[Phronimos]

Catch Wrestling for sure.
It's the basis of collegiate, Greco Roman, and Freestyle with all of (and more than) the submission holds of BJJ and Sambo.
It basically encapsulates the grappling of all of the others.

 

[basedgodfedor]

If catch was the best there would be more then 1 or 2 dudes reppin it