Bellator Womens Flyweight Champion Retains Title After Landing 1.8 Significant Strikes Per Minute

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This is how mma is meant to be scored. The only criteria you can give Velasquez was damage, but she just caused some superficial swelling on Denise eye. Acute impact is weighed more heavily than cumalative. that was cumalative impact so it's not like it was crazy damage and overules the rest of the fight.

I can see you giving rounds to her but Denise won that fight 4-1. They basically punished Denise for throwing body shots and rewarded her opponent for backing up constantly and throwing a jab. Denise visibly staggers her multiple times and that is meant to score and count as "damage". Denise landed the bigger shots, staggered Velasquez at points and landed some great shots, she just didn't head hunt the entire fight. Give them both another opponent and we will see the rematch. Otherwise someone mentioned keilholtz at 115 in the UFC. I like that also.

No need to try and explain to me how a fight should be scored lol. I know exactly how it should be scored, but the only thing matters is how it IS scored. One of the biggest parts of my job is understanding why judges do what they do. I've made enough money from this that I don't need to work a normal job.

Read my other recent post on this page for more depth if you like, but Denise basically lost the fight due to visuals. Unfortunately, she caused most of the bad visuals of herself by completely whiffing so many shots.

If she had landed the majority of her strikes at least on the guard of Velasquez, she'd have likely won the fight very easily.
 
Derrick Lewis beat Francis Ngannou with just 20 TOTAL strikes landed in 15 minutes. Only one of those was to the head. That's 1.3 total strikes per minute.

uFC sUcks!
Those are grown ass men where every punch matters.
 
Cruz beat TJ by missing less, not landing more and certainly not harder, just missing less.

It feels like 99% accept that as reasonable despite its obvious implications on aggression.
 
The right person won the fight. She was hitting air most of the fight and getting countered and out jabbed most of the time at mid range. She was throwing strikes that had nothing behind them and was missing a majority of the time. She couldn't get her range after the first round. Once she got hit coming in she became tentative. Re-watch the fight and compare the first round vs all the other rounds, 1st round was the only round she clearly won and was controlling the center and pressuring the champion back throughout the 1st round. After that round the champion kept her at mid range and was landing strikes on her standing at mid range as she came in. Her main strike was the cross to the body that she threw over and over again. But any combination after that she was always a step too short and missing everything and getting caught coming in. You can see the damage in her face.

Volume is only effective if it's effective strikes, if it's throw away strikes that fighters don't even bother blocking because they are being thrown too lightly those don't really count. If she would've fought her the way she fought her in the 1st round throughout the whole fight she would've won that. She never took advantage of the times she would connect clean and just stare at her after instead of pressuring forward trying to go for the finish. She let her recover from the times she stunned her. The champion connected clean more times than the challenger and landed the better significant strikes. Challenger landed more light strikes but didn't affect the champion with a majority of those strikes and she was missing most of her combinations when she was trying to throw significant strikes. Seems like the challenger had a hard time with the reach and height after the first round. She spent most of the fight at mid range after the 1st and was constantly being hit while she couldn't hit back because of the size/reach disadvantage. She needed to rest one step back and that would've kept her out of range to get hit. She tried to rest at mid range for the champion, (which was long range for the challenger) because of the reach disadvantage. She was too used to being safe at that range from the other fighters she usually fights.

Similar to Adesanya vs Jan, he was at a range where he usually doesn't get hit but with Jan being similar sized and similar reach to Adesanya he was able to hit him at that range. That was one of the factors that made Adesanya lose the striking exchanges with Jan. He got comfortable being safe at that range from his usual opponents and with Jan he wasn't safe at that range.
 
Wait, you are shitting on Bellator because the judges picked the wrong person?
You do realize they have the same shit judges the UFC does, right?

They are picked by athletic commissions in the state the fights take place, not the organization promoting the fights.
 
The right person won the fight. She was hitting air most of the fight and getting countered and out jabbed most of the time at mid range. She was throwing strikes that had nothing behind them and was missing a majority of the time. She couldn't get her range after the first round. Once she got hit coming in she became tentative. Re-watch the fight and compare the first round vs all the other rounds, 1st round was the only round she clearly won and was controlling the center and pressuring the champion back throughout the 1st round. After that round the champion kept her at mid range and was landing strikes on her standing at mid range as she came in. Her main strike was the cross to the body that she threw over and over again. But any combination after that she was always a step too short and missing everything and getting caught coming in. You can see the damage in her face.

Volume is only effective if it's effective strikes, if it's throw away strikes that fighters don't even bother blocking because they are being thrown too lightly those don't really count. If she would've fought her the way she fought her in the 1st round throughout the whole fight she would've won that. She never took advantage of the times she would connect clean and just stare at her after instead of pressuring forward trying to go for the finish. She let her recover from the times she stunned her. The champion connected clean more times than the challenger and landed the better significant strikes. Challenger landed more light strikes but didn't affect the champion with a majority of those strikes and she was missing most of her combinations when she was trying to throw significant strikes. Seems like the challenger had a hard time with the reach and height after the first round. She spent most of the fight at mid range after the 1st and was constantly being hit while she couldn't hit back because of the size/reach disadvantage. She needed to rest one step back and that would've kept her out of range to get hit. She tried to rest at mid range for the champion, (which was long range for the challenger) because of the reach disadvantage. She was too used to being safe at that range from the other fighters she usually fights.

Similar to Adesanya vs Jan, he was at a range where he usually doesn't get hit but with Jan being similar sized and similar reach to Adesanya he was able to hit him at that range. That was one of the factors that made Adesanya lose the striking exchanges with Jan. He got comfortable being safe at that range from his usual opponents and with Jan he wasn't safe at that range.

“She was hitting the air most of the time and getting countered and jabbed most of the time”


First, “hitting the air” (aka whiffing) is not a factor taken into consideration when scoring a fight, because if it were fighters would only throw high percentage strikes and would encourage timidity.


But since you brought it up, Velasquez only connected on 17.4% of the significant strikes she attempted, while Kielholtz connected on 23.6% of the significant strikes she threw.

Velasquez was proportionally actually the one “hitting the air” far more frequently, despite being the bigger and rangier fighter. So what you are saying is factually incorrect.


Second, Velasquez was “countering because Kielholtz was the one pushing the action (controlling the cage), while Velasquez was backing up the entire time. Cage control is a relevant scoring criterion and Kielholtz complete control of the cage is a core reason why Velasquez did not do enough to win a single round.


If you want to describe Velasquez as “counter-punching” after only landing 46 significant strikes over twenty five minutes, despite Kielholtz attempting 427 significant strikes then fine; that means she was connecting on her counters roughly 10% of the time which is abysmally low and completely undermines the notion Kielholtz was “hitting the air” more frequently than Velasquez.


Finally, she was getting “jabbed” because the jab was the only strike Velasquez was throwing and she only connected on 38 of them over 25 minutes (1.52 a minute) which is again abysmally low. Though when you say “most of the time” that is again demonstrably inaccurate given Velasquez’s complete timidity through the entire fight; as the only thing Velasquez was doing “most of the time” was backing up and not engaging.


“Volume is only effective if its effective strikes”


This is entirely subjective, as I believe Kielholtz snapping back the head of Velasquez several times, compared to the 0 times Velasquez was able to snap Kielholtzs’ head back as clear evidence Denise was the one landing the harder shots. Again, there is no way to measure this, which is why when a fighter is out-struck over 2-1 like Velasquez it is safe to say they did not do enough to win and deserve to lose.


I will add Kielholtz is a veteran kickboxer with nearly seventy fights, naturally she has more built-up scar tissue than Velasquez who does not have very many fights. Also, Kielholtz had a black eye and a bloody nose in the fourth and fifth round, she was not bleeding profusely in any round nor was her face noticeably swollen in the first three rounds. Trying to frame it as though Velasquez inflicted some big noticeable injury is just intellectually dishonest and demonstrably inaccurate.


Finally, I can’t respond to anymore of your post because you repeatedly contradict yourself and your conception of what happened is not in line with reality. Velasquez was not doing more of anything than Kielholtz, other than backing up, she only landed 46 (1.84 per minute) significant strikes over a twenty-five-minute strike. That is abysmally low and Kielholtz landed 101 (4.04 per minute) significant strikes. There were no knockdowns either and as I said the only one who as you acknowledged whose head was repeatedly snapped back was Velasquez.


You are literally saying Kielholtz did not deserve to win the fight because she missed on some combinations, when Velasquez did not throw a single combination. Doing nothing, striking wise, is worse in MMA than doing something and occasionally missing big; doing nothing is timidity and it is supposed to be penalized.


I tried to be respectful in this response, but your post is seriously disconnected from reality, and anyone who looks at the stat sheet in the OP can see that.
 
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Bellator, the minor league MMA organization, continues to run itself out of business with its ridiculous commentary and judging.

Their reigning Womens Flyweight champion (Velasquez) retained her title after landing 46 significant strikes during the 25 minute fight, roughly 1.8 significant strikes per minute.

She was out-struck every single round.

Big John Mccarthy and their color commentator repeatedly lauded Velasquez on her ability to circle around the cage.

The "champion" was booed off the stage during her post fight interview.

Great organization, great champion. I will stick to the UFC, as Bellator still has a ways to go before it can be considered anything other than a minor league organization.
Serves you right for wasting your time watching that fight. I had better things to do, like clean the lint out of my belly button.
 
Don’t they use the same judges as the UFC? UFC has been pretty biased in commentary as well lately
 
Mate, you should have wrote all that up in the first place and maybe people would take you seriously. Instead, you chose to be an arrogant flog and say that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid or has some weird sex fetish.

I'm not defending Bellator. I only watch Bellator when I've got a bet in play or if there's nothing else to do.

You obviously understand how judging is supposed to work, but you clearly have no fucking clue how it actually works.

I had it for Denise. I never at any point said I thought Velasquez won, only that I know how she won. I'm not going to go back and watch it, but I feel I had it either 4-1 or 3-2 for Denise at worst.

Denise had more volume, slightly bigger moments, and much more forward aggression, and she had all of those things consistently over all rounds except for the 2nd I think it was. Even that round was close and she could have won it.

But none of that matters. The way I scored it doesn't matter, either does the way you did. The only thing that matters is how the judges scored it.

Visuals and body language aren't part of the scoring criteria, but they're a fucking massive aspect to the judges, whether anyone likes it or not.

If a fighter is whiffing on punches all round, it looks bad. It's a bad visual. All their volume and good work can be completely outdone by this and a few stiff jabs. Denise was constantly out of range. If she was at least hitting the guard, it would have looked way better, visually, but instead she was missing completely over and over again. This happened for almost the entire fight outside of a few key stretches for Denise.

Body language in WMMA is huge because half the time the girls can't hurt each other well enough to create very big moments. Looking good overall is enough in WMMA. I don't think it should be, but my bank account tells me that the judges think it does.

If a girl is wearing her hair in a loose fashion (Ketlen Veira, Kay Hansen, etc), I factor that into my gambling because I know that the hair is going to fly around dramatically, making them look worse to judges in exchanges they might otherwise be winning.

If you're going to make an analysis, actually look at what judges historically are doing, not what you think they're doing before you start insulting people.

But what do I know? I'm just a moron who gambles on MMA for living, with a huge focus on WMMA. Part of understanding what judges are actually thinking is a massive part of why I haven't needed to work a normal job in years.

Then again maybe I just have a Velasquez fetish?

I am very aware of the concept you are underpinning your analysis for why Velasquez won on.

I dont dispute any of what you said, except that Velasquez was landing so infrequently that it conjunction with the cage control of Kielholtz it should not have mattered how many times Kielholtz whiffed on her punches.

Velasquez had three rounds I believe where she landed in the single digits, and the rounds in which she managed to hit double digits (as in 10 or 11) Kielholtz was doubling her, in one case tripping her output.

We don't have the round by round stats but Velasquez was standing there, backing up when Kielholtz approached, and throwing 1.8 signifiant strikes a minute for 25 minutes; nearly all of which were jabs.

I believe the visual of Velasquez looking so much larger than Kielholtz played a major role in the decision, but thats very poor judging and should not be expected or dismissed in a title fight.

John Mccarthy attempting to gaslight the viewers by praising Velasquezes lateral movement (that resulted in her being hit over 100 times) was unprofessional when he knew Kielholtz was landing the harder shots and doubling her up on volume.

Anyone with a brain, who was not taking the words of the commentators as gospel scored that for Kielholtz, whether you want to call it 5-0 or 4-1 its a disgrace Velasquez won and im glad you are not defending it because it is indefensible if one is intellectually honest.

I apologize for the ad Homs in the other thread, but I do believe they were directed at me first; since it seems a lot of folks had money on Velasquez and were sweating big time at the end.
 
Serves you right for wasting your time watching that fight. I had better things to do, like clean the lint out of my belly button.

You are correct. After hearing about how Bellator has all these divisions where the fighters are better than the UFC I decided to give Bellator a try when it came back in April and today was the last day.

After giving it a try I can say with certainty it is a minor league organization, John Mccarthy will do anything for a dollar, and all of its quality fighters should sign with better organizations as soon as they can because Bellator will never become a respected promotion.

The PFL is FAR more quality than the garbage Bellator produces.
 
You are correct. After hearing about how Bellator has all these divisions where the fighters are better than the UFC I decided to give Bellator a try when it came back in April and today was the last day.

After giving it a try I can say with certainty it is a minor league organization, John Mccarthy will do anything for a dollar, and all of its quality fighters should sign with better organizations as soon as they can because Bellator will never become a respected promotion.

The PFL is FAR more quality than the garbage Bellator produces.
In my opinion Bellator has had a lot of good main events, and even some good cards, but yesterday's main event was a joke.
 
How one views an MMA fight is inherently subjective, so yes I fully acknowledge there can be divergent views on how a fight has played out and thus scored.

With that being said, there are instances in which two viewers can watch the same thing, and one viewer can determine that what they have seen is so obvious that any dissenting view is a sign of stupidity.

If we both look at the sky at noon, and you tell me its orange, I am going to come to the conclusion you are intoxicated or have a mental impairment.

If two fighters step into a cage for twenty five minutes, no knockdowns, 1 takedown, no control time, and one fighter out-strikes the other every single round then it is seems unlikely but of course I can understand how the fighter who was out-struck every single round may have earned a win.

HOWEVER

If the fighter who was out-struck every single round only landed 46 (1.8 per minute) significant strikes while their opponent who outstruck them landed 101 (4.04 per minute) then no there is no circumstance under which the lower volume fighter should win.

Also, lets cut the bullshit Kielholtz was landing combinations, Velasquez threw jabs and neither landed nor attempted combinations; Kielholtz won every single round.

Velasquez threw 38 jabs, no combinations, and fought how a civillan pulled off the street and thrown into the octagon would have fought. That was the worst decision I have ever seen watching MMA. The fact morons like you are are defending Bellator, an organization so many idiots on here shill for and say has "better fighters", after their champion stood around for 25 minutes and threw 2 jabs a minute is a joke.

You are a fucking moron, enjoy Bellator, I am done watching minor league MMA. Because I am not going to be gaslit while i watch an MMA fight. Explaining why Velasquez was "winning" that fight is like explaining why Connor was "winning" his fight with Dustin last week; only a moron would try to justify it and only a bigger moron (like you) would fall for it.
How is bad judging Bellator's fault, again?
 
E6d8w5WWYAMW3SL



Bellator, the minor league MMA organization, continues to run itself out of business with its ridiculous commentary and judging.

Their reigning Womens Flyweight champion (Velasquez) retained her title after landing 46 significant strikes during the 25 minute fight, roughly 1.8 significant strikes per minute.

She was out-struck every single round.

Big John Mccarthy and their color commentator repeatedly lauded Velasquez on her ability to circle around the cage.

The "champion" was booed off the stage during her post fight interview.

Great organization, great champion. I will stick to the UFC, as Bellator still has a ways to go before it can be considered anything other than a minor league organization.
Fuck the UFC, watch Combate
 
No punches were really thrown in that fight, but Lewis did a switch kick that missed by a mile
There was an edit of all the action in one clip posted a while back, I can't find it. It made the fight look like it was actually good. I wish someone could find it.
 
There are a lot more robberies in the UFC than Bellator

On every UFC card someone breaks his leg, fights end via eye pokes or nut shots and you complain about a WMMA result in Bellator lmao
 
To be fair, WMMA is garbage also in the UFC. And lol at getting worked up over the outcome of a WMMA fight in Bellator.

<Huh2>
 
I don't believe those numbers are at all close to being accurate. Other than the 1st round they both seemed to be landing very little & the last 4 rounds were close. Velasquez punches seemed to be doing more noticeable damage though.

I have no problem with Denise winning but this was no robbery.
 
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