Movies AVATAR: FIRE AND ASH (Dragonlord's Reaction, post #68)

[RollSonnenRoll]

1998…?

His last non-Avatar film was Titanic in 1997. So I'm assuming he started work on Avatar in 1998 and didn't get it fully into production until the late 2000's

 

[milliniar]

His last non-Avatar film was Titanic in 1997. So I'm assuming he started work on Avatar in 1998 and didn't get it fully into production until the late 2000's

He did a lot of work on battle Angel too.

 

[syct23]

His last non-Avatar film was Titanic in 1997. So I'm assuming he started work on Avatar in 1998 and didn't get it fully into production until the late 2000's

So you’re counting an entire decade before the public had a chance to see it on film?

 

[Bullitt68]

Haha, the first two films made so much money yet everyone here is a hater. Astonishing films from one of the true visionaries in film history and everyone's just bitching. Thank God for Cameron, the king of the spectacle and the only filmmaker doing huge blockbusters that aren't superhero movies.

I for one am stoked. I can count on one hand the number of theater experiences I've had more amazing than Avatar, and the sequel blew me away even with how high he raised the bar in 2009 and how much time elapsed between the first and second films. So happy this one didn't take nearly as long, and I already got chills from the trailer. Looking forward to seeing this one on the biggest screen possible.

 

[Adamant]

I wonder if this one will hit $2 billion too?

Also, they should re-re-release Avatar 1. It only needs $77 million more to hit $3 billion.

 

[Streeter]

This would of done great if Cam didn't wait like 15 years to make the 2nd one. Avatar had a great following ....... in 2009/10. Cam waited till it became a punchline to make it.

 

[cws80us]

ZzzZzzZzzz....

1st one, though mediocre, made lots of buzz.

2nd one I didnt hear nearly as much praise and I've never finished it myself.

First one was groundbreaking with the 3D, so somewhat understandable that it made so much money. However, I have no idea why the 2nd one did so well. It was nothing more than a repeat of the 1st one except on water. This 3rd one looks to be another repeat except with fire this time.

 

[TrueBias]

First one was groundbreaking with the 3D, so somewhat understandable that it made so much money. However, I have no idea why the 2nd one did so well. It was nothing more than a repeat of the 1st one except on water. This 3rd one looks to be another repeat except with fire this time.

Did it do well?

I liked the first one, but thought Cameron should've moved onto something else.

His hard on for copying dancing with wolves or that cartoon, of which is Avatar, is out of control. Think he's losing his touch like Ridley Scott.

 

[MDoza]

Trailer looks interesting, including a Naavi tribe that doesn’t care about Eywa.

I always enjoyed these films. You sort of had to see the first one in theatres in 3D to appreciate what Cameron accomplished. Never before had a filmmaker managed to create a world and transport you into it quite like that.

I wasn’t as big into the second film but I’m still interested in seeing how he finishes the series.

 

[Bullitt68]

I wonder if this one will hit $2 billion too?

If Cameron makes three movies in a row - and three movies in the same franchise in a row - that are amazing and do enormous business...and then when you remember Titanic even before this...I don't even know what to say. George Lucas has spent a career milking and shitting on one franchise, Spielberg has been hit or miss (mostly miss the last 20 years), and here's Cameron who's pretty much hit a home run every time he's stepped up to the plate since 1984, made so many iconic films, revolutionized film technology. It's crazy to say this, but he's honestly underrated given how ludicrously awesome his career has been, and he's not even done yet.

Also, they should re-re-release Avatar 1. It only needs $77 million more to hit $3 billion.

Hell yeah, they should put both 1 and 2 out ahead of/alongside 3.

This would of done great if Cam didn't wait like 15 years to make the 2nd one. Avatar had a great following ....... in 2009/10. Cam waited till it became a punchline to make it.

Yeah, it's a real shame, because nobody saw the sequel...

First one was groundbreaking with the 3D, so somewhat understandable that it made so much money. However, I have no idea why the 2nd one did so well. It was nothing more than a repeat of the 1st one except on water. This 3rd one looks to be another repeat except with fire this time.

The second one did well for the same reason the first one did well: Because nobody makes spectacles like Cameron. Also, the second one introducing children and having Jake and Neytiri be parents is kind of a big change. And the third one looks nothing like the first two. Why people aren't supporting Cameron but line up with their tongues out for the 37th version of the same superhero shit from Batman to Superman to the fucking Fantastic Four, I don't know, but I'm glad Cameron's still chugging away.

Did it do well?

Trailer looks interesting, including a Naavi tribe that doesn’t care about Eywa.

I always enjoyed these films. You sort of had to see the first one in theatres in 3D to appreciate what Cameron accomplished. Never before had a filmmaker managed to create a world and transport you into it quite like that.

And never since IMO. I almost drove off the road driving home after Avatar because I was looking out the passenger window at birds in the sky imagining Pandora. Not exaggerating. Avatar was like nothing anyone had ever made before, and then Cameron did it again with the sequel, and I'm confident he'll do it a third time with this one. Especially in this era of superhero movies and Christopher Nolan, when Cameron comes out with another Avatar film it's like Michael Jordan walking out onto the court during an All-Star game. There are a lot of great blockbuster directors, and then there's James Cameron.

 

[TrueBias]

If Cameron makes three movies in a row - and three movies in the same franchise in a row - that are amazing and do enormous business...and then when you remember Titanic even before this...I don't even know what to say. George Lucas has spent a career milking and shitting on one franchise, Spielberg has been hit or miss (mostly miss the last 20 years), and here's Cameron who's pretty much hit a home run every time he's stepped up to the plate since 1984, made so many iconic films, revolutionized film technology. It's crazy to say this, but he's honestly underrated given how ludicrously awesome his career has been, and he's not even done yet.



Hell yeah, they should put both 1 and 2 out ahead of/alongside 3.



Yeah, it's a real shame, because nobody saw the sequel...





The second one did well for the same reason the first one did well: Because nobody makes spectacles like Cameron. Also, the second one introducing children and having Jake and Neytiri be parents is kind of a big change. And the third one looks nothing like the first two. Why people aren't supporting Cameron but line up with their tongues out for the 37th version of the same superhero shit from Batman to Superman to the fucking Fantastic Four, I don't know, but I'm glad Cameron's still chugging away.











And never since IMO. I almost drove off the road driving home after Avatar because I was looking out the passenger window at birds in the sky imagining Pandora. Not exaggerating. Avatar was like nothing anyone had ever made before, and then Cameron did it again with the sequel, and I'm confident he'll do it a third time with this one. Especially in this era of superhero movies and Christopher Nolan, when Cameron comes out with another Avatar film it's like Michael Jordan walking out onto the court during an All-Star game. There are a lot of great blockbuster directors, and then there's James Cameron.

You quoted me and gave a stock emo. Did it do well? The 1st one had buzz, the 2nd didnt.

 

[cmw43]

ZzzZzzZzzz....

1st one, though mediocre, made lots of buzz.

2nd one I didnt hear nearly as much praise and I've never finished it myself.

Maybe didn't get as much hype as first but at the box office it's no3 all time behind the first movie and Avengers Endgame.

 

[TCE]

The second one - Way of Water or whatever, my ex and I actually walked out of the cinema just over halfway through.

I haven't walked out of the cimema in like 15 years...it was so bad.

 

[Bullitt68]

You quoted me and gave a stock emo. Did it do well? The 1st one had buzz, the 2nd didnt.

Do you live under a rock? Have you heard of the Avengers? Do you know who Batman is? Do you know a singer named Taylor Swift? How about an Irish cage fighter named Conor McGregor? It's insane to be clueless regarding - and crazier still to be unable to Google - the astronomical success of the Avatar films. The TLJ emoji was a courtesy.

 

[Adamant]

If Cameron makes three movies in a row - and three movies in the same franchise in a row - that are amazing and do enormous business...and then when you remember Titanic even before this...I don't even know what to say. George Lucas has spent a career milking and shitting on one franchise, Spielberg has been hit or miss (mostly miss the last 20 years), and here's Cameron who's pretty much hit a home run every time he's stepped up to the plate since 1984, made so many iconic films, revolutionized film technology. It's crazy to say this, but he's honestly underrated given how ludicrously awesome his career has been, and he's not even done yet.



Hell yeah, they should put both 1 and 2 out ahead of/alongside 3.



Yeah, it's a real shame, because nobody saw the sequel...





The second one did well for the same reason the first one did well: Because nobody makes spectacles like Cameron. Also, the second one introducing children and having Jake and Neytiri be parents is kind of a big change. And the third one looks nothing like the first two. Why people aren't supporting Cameron but line up with their tongues out for the 37th version of the same superhero shit from Batman to Superman to the fucking Fantastic Four, I don't know, but I'm glad Cameron's still chugging away.











And never since IMO. I almost drove off the road driving home after Avatar because I was looking out the passenger window at birds in the sky imagining Pandora. Not exaggerating. Avatar was like nothing anyone had ever made before, and then Cameron did it again with the sequel, and I'm confident he'll do it a third time with this one. Especially in this era of superhero movies and Christopher Nolan, when Cameron comes out with another Avatar film it's like Michael Jordan walking out onto the court during an All-Star game. There are a lot of great blockbuster directors, and then there's James Cameron.

I think Avatar 1 & 2 are both solid and extremely well made movies. The CGI actually isn't insulting like it is in seemingly every other modern movie. But I also feel kind of meh about them. And even some resentment. Because what Cameron is doing with Avatar is what he should have done with Terminator. 5 Terminator films all written and directed by Cameron, coming out over a span of 30 years would have been amazing. We could have gotten the real T3 after Titanic. Then T4 in the mid 00s. Then T5 early-mid 10s. Dammit. Or shit, even 5 Alien movies from Aliens to 3, 4, 5, 6. All written and directed by Cameron would have been wonderful. (Avatar 1 & 2 are fine, they just don't hit me like T1/T2/Aliens hit me)

I'm still waiting for the humans to show up with a nuke. I want to see them drop a Tsar Bomb on the Na'vi moon. That would be a hell of an ending to whichever movie it happened in.

 

[jeff7b9]

When they fuck, do you think they;

tie their hair together AND fuck properly
or
just tie the hair together?

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I actually really liked the first movie, but the second one was pretty meh I thought. Didn’t leave me wanting more. Will give this a chance but I’m not even remotely “excited for it”.

 

[BoomStronk]

@Bullitt68 you seem to be a little ambiguous about this. Ill try and cut through the vagueness here and just ask you straight out - are you a fan of the franchise, and are you looking forward to the next movie? How do you feel about Cameron as a director? Just come out and say it man.

There's a great, offbeat, pseudo documentary HBO tv show called "how to with John wilson." Im a big fan. He meets up and interviews an avatar fan group in season 2 episode 5 - "how to remember your dreams."

There's a whole bunch of people who are really intonavatar and who get like severe depression when they realize the virtual world they have fallen in love with doesn't exist in reality. Its an interesting episode, and an awesome series.

I think avatar 1 was good, even great for a big budget Hollywood blockbuster. It checked all the boxes for the kind of pop culture summer blockbuster movie it was plus held some extra value in the form of sort of interesting philosophical/sociological dynamics, even if these are pretty ham fisted at times ("unobtanium"... come on guys). The story was fairly bland, but it was a cooler, techier and slightly more philosophical reskin of Pocahontas and/or fern gully with an impressive visual finish.

Avatar 2 was just a repeat without any of the interesting stuff. Boring, soulless hollywood money engine, this time with a bunch of teenager adventurers calling each other "bro" incessantly.

3 looks like more of the same. I dont think I'll even bother watching this one. Without the concept of paradise lost , of the paradox found in environmental consumption and destruction leading to humanity's technological ascension leading to the ability to even reach Pandora in the first place, its just a bunch of giant blue elf things fighting in a fantasy world wrapped up in an extreme budget Hollywood movie.

 

[cmw43]

This would of done great if Cam didn't wait like 15 years to make the 2nd one. Avatar had a great following ....... in 2009/10. Cam waited till it became a punchline to make it.

You quoted me and gave a stock emo. Did it do well? The 1st one had buzz, the 2nd didnt.

Might not have had "buzz" but it made $2billion at the box office making it the third biggest movie event of all time.

 

[Bullitt68]

I think Avatar 1 & 2 are both solid and extremely well made movies. The CGI actually isn't insulting like it is in seemingly every other modern movie. But I also feel kind of meh about them. And even some resentment. Because what Cameron is doing with Avatar is what he should have done with Terminator. 5 Terminator films all written and directed by Cameron, coming out over a span of 30 years would have been amazing. We could have gotten the real T3 after Titanic. Then T4 in the mid 00s. Then T5 early-mid 10s. Dammit. Or shit, even 5 Alien movies from Aliens to 3, 4, 5, 6. All written and directed by Cameron would have been wonderful. (Avatar 1 & 2 are fine, they just don't hit me like T1/T2/Aliens hit me)

I get where you're coming from, but that's too parallel universe for me to give much imaginative energy to, besides which in that universe we almost certainly wouldn't have gotten the Fox series Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which is the GOAT dramatic series behind Hannibal for me. I don't want to live in a universe without that show, so I'm fine with how his career played out

@Bullitt68 you seem to be a little ambiguous about this. Ill try and cut through the vagueness here and just ask you straight out - are you a fan of the franchise, and are you looking forward to the next movie? How do you feel about Cameron as a director? Just come out and say it man.

There's a great, offbeat, pseudo documentary HBO tv show called "how to with John wilson." Im a big fan. He meets up and interviews an avatar fan group in season 2 episode 5 - "how to remember your dreams."

There's a whole bunch of people who are really intonavatar and who get like severe depression when they realize the virtual world they have fallen in love with doesn't exist in reality. Its an interesting episode, and an awesome series.

Haha, I'm not surprised to hear that. Truly great worldbuilding is commendable. I'm not as obsessed with Game of Thrones as a lot of people, but I get that fanaticism. I think Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are stupid, but I get loving those worlds, too. For my part, I love True Blood and Avatar, but I know plenty of people would/do find those stupid. Certain fictional worlds just hit you, they make you wish they were real. But beyond that sort of imaginative projection, nothing can even compete with Avatar objectively with the insane ambition, imagination, and execution of Pandora. That world is extraordinary.

I think avatar 1 was good, even great for a big budget Hollywood blockbuster. It checked all the boxes for the kind of pop culture summer blockbuster movie it was plus held some extra value in the form of sort of interesting philosophical/sociological dynamics, even if these are pretty ham fisted at times ("unobtanium"... come on guys). The story was fairly bland, but it was a cooler, techier and slightly more philosophical reskin of Pocahontas and/or fern gully with an impressive visual finish.

These criticisms are so ubiquitous that refutations are equally ubiquitous. On the Pocahontas/FernGully complaints, nobody complains about Pocahontas stealing from FernGully, or either one stealing from Dances with Wolves, or any of those stealing from Sydney Pollack's Jeremiah Johnson or David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia or King Vidor's Bird of Paradise...and this is to say nothing of Joseph Campbell pointing out that every "hero's journey" story is one basic story, hence his term "monomyth." And how many people shit on Star Wars for ripping off Kurosawa? Since Avatar is the most financially successful film ever made, people are laser focused with their nitpicks, but it's all hypocritical double standard BS to my mind, as Avatar is more of a James Cameron film than anything else, with closer and deeper connections to his own films like Titanic, The Abyss, and Terminator 2 than anything else.

As for unobtanium, I'll let this guy do the work:

In Defense Of Unobtanium

Unobtanium is a stupid name that proves Avatar is a bad movie, right? Wrong.

www.thegamer.com

First of all, it’s not called unobtainium. The RDA calls it unobtanium, yes, but the people of Pandora do not. There is no native word for unobtanium in the film, though Cameron’s original treatment known as Project 880 says that the Na’vi call the huge outcroppings of unobtanium that float in the air “thundering rocks”, while Na’vi linguists have come up with the word “lingtskxe”; a combination of “ling”, or floating, and “skxe”, or rock. In any event, unobtanium is an exonym used only by the RDA, and specifically by head administrator Parker Selfridge.

This isn’t just semantics. Recognizing that unobtanium is the name given to this metal that only exists on Pandora helps us understand why it was called that in the first place. The first mistake is taking its etymology for granted. Marvel has trained us otherwise. We don’t question why it’s called the Tesseract, the Darkhold, or the Eye of Agamatto. We don’t know who named the Infinity Stones or dubbed Thor’s Hammer, Mjolnir. That’s just what they’re called, and admittedly, they sound cool. Unobtanium does not sound cool, but it isn’t supposed to.

The term unobtanium (and unobtainium) has been used since at least the late ‘50s by engineers and scientists to refer to a difficult or impossible to procure material that has the perfect characteristics for a specific purpose. Aerospace engineers use “unobtanium” in thought experiments to refer to material that would be light enough/strong enough/cheap enough for a particular need. Over time, the word expanded to refer to something that does exist, but is almost impossible to acquire. While designing the SR-71 Blackbird, engineers at Lockheed referred to titanium as unobtainium because, at the time, the Soviet Union controlled the global supply.

...

This is the banality of evil in action, boring us with hollow terminology while they genocide a tribe of native Pandorans. Calling it unobtanium speaks to the lack of creative spirit demonstrated by the RDA, whose weapons of advanced engineering were summarily defeated by mystics and warriors of Eywa.

The irony of rolling your eyes at ‘unobtanium’ is that you’re absolutely meant to. The RDA STEMlords that named unobtanium are as cringe as our modern-day engineering intellectuals. It’s exceedingly easy to imagine Elon Musk discovering a rare metal on Mars and calling it unobtanium, isn’t it?. A made-up name like pandorium or magnetium would have drawn less ire from uncritical thinkers, but it wouldn’t have been as meaningful or helped build the world as Avatar the way that unobtanium does.

Avatar 2 was just a repeat without any of the interesting stuff.

There's really no point telling you how wrong you are, is there? There was SO MUCH new and original stuff that went SO FAR beyond the first film, but if you couldn't see that, I doubt me telling you it on an MMA forum would do much good.

3 looks like more of the same. I dont think I'll even bother watching this one.