Social Are illegal immigrants mostly bad people?

[avenue94]

Another bonus to hiring illegals is that they can pay under the table and not worry about fed wage taxes and they don’t have to offer health insurance. But again, sorry, I can’t see Americans doing some of those jobs for min wage.

They stil often pay their portion of payroll taxes. Health insurance would also not be required of contractors anyways.

To your point, I think every American should at some point see the California's Central Valley or one of the country's farming heartland to understand who does this kind of work and how brutal it is.

 

[Cole train]

Crime is really thst bad over there? Places in Europe I've been seem safe.

Saying women cant walk safe might be a bit overboard but what is true is immigrants being represented heavily in sexual stats

Heres stat by my countrys police from 2023,sexual crimes by nationality, locals are waayyy down

 

[avenue94]

I can't stand this argument that some make (not saying you're doing that) - "Oh who'll pick our strawberries." "Who will clean our toilets." Etc.

If you pay enough, Americans will be willing to do the job. Oh our strawberries will be $3 more expensive. Well too fucking bad. It's the free market.

If it's too expensive to produce a fruit in the US that way, then we can import fruits. Plenty of countries do that.

To have to rely on vastly underpaying undocumented (not even illegal, but completely undocumented) illegals and paying them slave wages with long ass hours because we don't want to pay a few extra dollars for strawberries is a very poor argument.

Also, even now, undocumented are only about 40% of the fruit picking demo. The rest are legal. So completely untrue that Americans won't do this work.

A lot of illegal immigrants doing farm labor actually make above the minimum wage (aka an actual free market wage).

I'm fine with paying more for my food but Americans plainly aren't. They've actually never mot relied on an underclass to subsidize their food Coste.

How do you square the griping about inflation post covid with your argumen that Americans will pay more for staples?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Companies have gotten so used to making huge profits by not paying American workers that it has become an addiction for them now and they can’t see their way back

Yes, cheap labor is an intrinsic part of the capitalist system.

Been this way since "low-wage workers" looked like this:

Employers have always sought out the poorest and most desperate to fill these jobs.

Only difference is that back then, all the poor and desperate were white. By now, whites have done so well that, as a group, they've moved beyond this and the poor and desperate are nonwhites, so those are the ones that get to work the shitty jobs.

 

[Cajun]

Saying women cant walk safe might be a bit overboard but what is true is immigrants being represented heavily in sexual stats

Heres stat by my countrys police from 2023,sexual crimes by nationality, locals are waayyy down

Yeah, thanks for the post. Im definitely not saying taking in tons of illegals is a good idea. Seems in the last several years Europe has taken in many and have had some consequences of that.

 

[nhbbear]

some jobs would need for people to have time to adjust to, i don't know why that's so hard to get. I've done labor for years, I wouldn't even try it as of right now, I can't charge people if I'm totally out of shape. It's not even always want, you can't be 100 pounds overweight and move well enough to do some jobs and most americans are way overweight. Then, there is the other factor where people think they are too good for real work, then you have the actual laziness, people will be there bullshitting when they are supposed to be hustling. Most americans are useless for real labor and the ones we often have doing it are hopeless, broke down and all fucked up. So many of us are coddled or doing jobs where all we have to do is run our mouths, we don't even know how to work 8-12 hours physically.

If they paid better, there might be folks who could do it, but anyone would still need time to adjust to that kind of work and some people would always be hopeless in doing it. Who needs that? And nonstop grumbling. The folks with their heads on straight and who have the connections would never even consider or need to do any of that type of work. That'll leave you forever stuck with beavis and

You said very similar things to what I said. Immigrants are willing to do all the things you say while Americans are not willing to do it unless they are paid far more for a shitty job. It’s why garbage men are often paid well-because no one wants to do a necessary and ahittt job-but it’s the city that pays the workers so there is no profits at stake whereas companies that hire illegals stand to lose a lot of money if they have to pay Americans to do a job no one wants.

 

[nhbbear]

They stil often pay their portion of payroll taxes. Health insurance would also not be required of contractors anyways.

To your point, I think every American should at some point see the California's Central Valley or one of the country's farming heartland to understand who does this kind of work and how brutal it is.

I am willing to bet that there are a lot of places that keep the illegal workers under the table and are not paying fed income tax.

 

[nhbbear]

Yes, cheap labor is an intrinsic part of the capitalist system.

Been this way since "low-wage workers" looked like this:

Employers have always sought out the poorest and most desperate to fill these jobs.

Only difference is that back then, all the poor and desperate were white. By now, whites have done so well that, as a group, they've moved beyond this and the poor and desperate are nonwhites, so those are the ones that get to work the shitty jobs.

And don’t forget about child labor

 

[mozfonky]

You said very similar things to what I said. Immigrants are willing to do all the things you say while Americans are not willing to do it unless they are paid far more for a shitty job. It’s why garbage men are often paid well-because no one wants to do a necessary and ahittt job-but it’s the city that pays the workers so there is no profits at stake whereas companies that hire illegals stand to lose a lot of money if they have to pay Americans to do a job no one wants.

I'm saying it might go beyond choice, I've kept up with mexicans in the past but I know all about it, I wouldn't try it at this moment. Most people seem to think that they can just go do a good job at some of those jobs when they are totally useless. I've seen that shit with most jobs I've had, so many useless workers and of course they don't think of themselves as useless. Companies can carry a lot of dead weight, but something that is so tangible as some labor jobs, where you either do it or you don't? You can't fake not filling a huge moving truck up or run your mouth and fill it up.

I wouldn't say there aren't any people that could do it, but most people are just too damned soft. I kept up with anyone i wanted to 10 years ago but I wouldn't even think about it right now. It's not a choice all the time. Give me a couple weeks and I might be ok, but people take alot of shit for granted. Now that prices are rising or we have to deal with american losers at the am/pm-mc'd's or what have you, we're all gonna pay.

 

[UberHere]

When you hear the term illegal immigrant there is strong negative connotation that they are bad people.

What's your perspective on that?

Are they mostly bad? Or they are decent people coming from a desperate situation, just trying to make way to greener pastures?

Can’t paint them with broad brush, but the democrats who encourage illegal immigration are mostly bad people.

 

[mozfonky]

Yes, cheap labor is an intrinsic part of the capitalist system.

Been this way since "low-wage workers" looked like this:

Employers have always sought out the poorest and most desperate to fill these jobs.

Only difference is that back then, all the poor and desperate were white. By now, whites have done so well that, as a group, they've moved beyond this and the poor and desperate are nonwhites, so those are the ones that get to work the shitty jobs.

yes, and also, people don't really know history. Each group had to fight for acceptance, Jews, Irish, Italians. Nothing new under the sun and human beings have always feared, hated and distrusted strangers.

 

[mozfonky]

Can’t paint them with broad brush, but the democrats who encourage illegal immigration are mostly bad people.

stupid too, open floodgates to the billions out there in the world and think they'd ever stop coming? It wouldn't. Overnight, all sorts of new people, more traffic, more conflict and anytime you add young men to a society you're going to have all sorts of problems now matter what.

 

[mozfonky]

And don’t forget about child labor

yup, this motherfucker we all live in has always been vile unless we are talking humanity being completely tribal 10k plus years ago.

 

[nhbbear]

yup, this motherfucker we all live in has always been vile unless we are talking humanity being completely tribal 10k plus years ago.

Hell, last century, children were out to work in factories and in coal mines because they were cheaper labor and in coal mines, they could reach areas that grown men couldn’t

 

[avenue94]

I am willing to bet that there are a lot of places that keep the illegal workers under the table and are not paying fed income tax.

Some for sure but that also leaves a big hole in the books (you paid thousands of dollars but can't tell me on what).

 

[nhbbear]

I'm saying it might go beyond choice, I've kept up with mexicans in the past but I know all about it, I wouldn't try it at this moment. Most people seem to think that they can just go do a good job at some of those jobs when they are totally useless. I've seen that shit with most jobs I've had, so many useless workers and of course they don't think of themselves as useless. Companies can carry a lot of dead weight, but something that is so tangible as some labor jobs, where you either do it or you don't? You can't fake not filling a huge moving truck up or run your mouth and fill it up.

I wouldn't say there aren't any people that could do it, but most people are just too damned soft. I kept up with anyone i wanted to 10 years ago but I wouldn't even think about it right now. It's not a choice all the time. Give me a couple weeks and I might be ok, but people take alot of shit for granted. Now that prices are rising or we have to deal with american losers at the am/pm-mc'd's or what have you, we're all gonna pay.

Oh definitely. I couldn’t do that kind of labor-nor would I with my degrees. And yes, things will continue to get much more expensive because no way are companies going to take a lower profit when they can get with all other companies’ leaders and they all agree to raise their prices to offset having to pay more to do a job.

 

[mozfonky]

Hell, last century, children were out to work in factories and in coal mines because they were cheaper labor and in coal mines, they could reach areas that grown men couldn’t

i'm surprised they didn't train four year olds to race horses.

 

[nhbbear]

Some for sure but that also leaves a big hole in the books (you paid thousands of dollars but can't tell me on what).

I have never owned or run a business so I don’t know how it works. I worked as a security director for a company a few years ago and the owner was both defrauding investors and wasn’t paying fed tax on workers or having some type of insurance that was required and he is now in federal prison, but I am also sure that many business owners know their way around it-especially smaller farms or construction jobs for example.

 

[SandisLL]

They stil often pay their portion of payroll taxes. Health insurance would also not be required of contractors anyways.

To your point, I think every American should at some point see the California's Central Valley or one of the country's farming heartland to understand who does this kind of work and how brutal it is.

Your health insurance is Creator and no one else.

I had tasted cool healthcare before 2025 th.
Happy new year...
Q: I have xxx..
A: we can't do anything here. Take prescr meds and ....

☆ one bonus was that they didn't had asked $ for this stuff session. Not from gubbermint or insurance company nor from me. They told that they can't help.

# real fun.
IMHO doesn't makes sense U.S or EU.

Short term solution: load with prescr NSAIDS and painkillers. Happy new year.

 

[avenue94]

I have never owned or run a business so I don’t know how it works. I worked as a security director for a company a few years ago and the owner was both defrauding investors and wasn’t paying fed tax on workers or having some type of insurance that was required and he is now in federal prison, but I am also sure that many business owners know their way around it-especially smaller farms or construction jobs for example.

Its complicated but broadly speaking, a form i-9 is what requires an employer to verify immigration status, but those are only required for employees, not contractors.

So for a farm needing help during harvest, they're take on contractors (no health insurance and no verification needed) and just play dumb that they didn't know they were contracting with illegal immigrants (otherwise that's illegal). It's still very advisable for businesses to pay their end of taxes, or else thay brings its own headaches ans scrutiny. Even if you're paying cash under the table or something (besides that helps the business by recognizing costs and reducing your tax burden broadly speaking).