Anyone practice Shotokan karate?

[deegold]

Karate isn't that great for mma unless it's kyokushin. I used to do shito ryu, but it's quite different from shotokan. different meaning better.

kyokushin is based on shotokan!

 

[cali_chute_boxe]

kyokushin is based on shotokan!

You went back through 4 years worth of threads to write that?

 

[random shot:]

Is Karate good in MMA heck yeah all these fighters have a base in Karate

Chuck Liddell (Black Belt in Kempo and koei-kan Karate)
GSP (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate)
Bas Rutten (5th degree Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate)
Andrews Nakahara (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with heaps of wins in heaps of Karate tournaments/competitons and championships)
Semmy Schilt (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with wins in heaps of Karate comps/tournaments and championships aswell)
Seth Pertuzelli (Black Belt in Shito-ryu Karate)
Takashi Nakakura (Black Belt in Seido kaikin Karate)
Lyoto Machida (Black Belt in Shotokan Karate and with wins in heaps of karate comps/tournaments and championships)

Plus Karate guys in K-1 include
Ewerton Teixeira (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with wins in lots of karate comps tournaments and championships)
Andy Hug (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with wins in lots of karate comps tournaments and championships)
Sam Greco (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate)
Musashi (Black Belt in Seidokaikan Karate)
Glaube Feitosa (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with wins in ots of karate comps tournaments and championships)
Semmy Schilt (shown earlier)

And thats just a few there are heaps more but i cant be bothered typing any longer

 

[random shot:]

Do your own research its all on wiki

 

[shinkyoku]

Bas Rutten (5th degree Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate)

3rd degree. his 5th degree is honorary and given after he left kyokushin and don't really count.

Semmy Schilt (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with wins in heaps of Karate comps/tournaments and championships aswell)

Semmy has no degree in kyokushin. He is a Ashihara karate practitioner and always was. But Ashihara is a kyokushin offshoot, so...

Andy Hug (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate with wins in lots of karate comps tournaments and championships)

The last few years he was affiliated to seidokaikan instead of kyokushin. But seidokaikan is a kyokushin offshoot, so...

Sam Greco (Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate)

Actually he was (is?) a seidokaikan karate practitioner and branchchief. I dont think he ever did kyokushin, and he definitely didn't do it at a high level.

 

[shinkyoku]

kyokushin is based on shotokan!

Kyokushin is basically a mix of Shotokan and gojuryu. Closer to shotokan in the beginner stage, and closer to goju ryu in the advanced stages.

Still, necro a several year old thread for that?!?

 

[Frode Falch]

What are the major differences between shotokan, which always seems to get dissed on these boards, and kyokushin, which always seems to get the love?

Kyokushin: Full contact.
Shotokan: No or light contact.. point sparring

 

[Too Defensive**]

I think if you are talking about MMA usefulness, then I think Shotokan is one of the worst things to go.

Fast forward 4 years later... Machida dominating the LHW devision

 

[Linkuei]

This is the problem with people who view Karate in today

 

[jimglynn]

I have 25 years Shotokan experience and can honestly say that if some of the top shotokan guys were as well-rounded as Machida they would most likely dominate like he does. The guys at the top are just as fast and brutal as he is. All the sweeps, throws, etc, they all do that as part of sparring. Shotokan has been around for a long time at a very high level. Machida is the only practitioner to try MMA. I am not advocating shotokan as the best MA, but in order to excel in shotokan tourneys you need to be REALLY good because the level of competition is incredibly high, just like bjj. You cannot win a nat'l or international bjj comp without being phenomenally good. Same with shotokan.

 

[random shot:]

3rd degree. his 5th degree is honorary and given after he left kyokushin and don't really count.


Semmy has no degree in kyokushin. He is a Ashihara karate practitioner and always was. But Ashihara is a kyokushin offshoot, so...

The last few years he was affiliated to seidokaikan instead of kyokushin. But seidokaikan is a kyokushin offshoot, so...

Actually he was (is?) a seidokaikan karate practitioner and branchchief. I dont think he ever did kyokushin, and he definitely didn't do it at a high level.

well either way it's still karate that they do not MT doesnt matter which style they practice :icon_chee

 

[random shot:]

well either way it's still karate that they doesnt matter which style they practice :icon_chee

there fixed it :icon_chee

 

[aaron_mag]

Fast forward 4 years later... Machida dominating the LHW devision

Yeah that was pretty funny. At first I thought it was a new thread (until I saw my own post from 4 years ago). And I was like, "How can anyone be saying that about Shotokan considering Machida?"

 

[Daccias]

I have 25 years Shotokan experience and can honestly say that if some of the top shotokan guys were as well-rounded as Machida they would most likely dominate like he does. The guys at the top are just as fast and brutal as he is. All the sweeps, throws, etc, they all do that as part of sparring. Shotokan has been around for a long time at a very high level. Machida is the only practitioner to try MMA. I am not advocating shotokan as the best MA, but in order to excel in shotokan tourneys you need to be REALLY good because the level of competition is incredibly high, just like bjj. You cannot win a nat'l or international bjj comp without being phenomenally good. Same with shotokan.

That's exactly right.

Nobody is going to tell me Karate cannot work. I trained in Kyokushin Karate for a few years and it was brutal. I wanted to do a bit of striking and try something different from Freestyle Wrestling. In my fist Kyokushin lesson I was amazed. My instructor drilled us all like dogs.

The training was very harsh which left you soaked in sweat and ready to collapse after every lesson. My Kyokushin instructor was a Natioanl Champion here in Australia and he also fought in a World Title over in Japan. Kyokushin training is very hard, it produces great fighters and it shows. We did all sorts of stuff like sprints up and down the hall, I had to pick up a 90kg guy on your soulders and carry him around the room, hundereds of kicks pads. Do 300 turning kicks on the kick shields follwed by 200 pushups. It was nuts. All this follwed by a few rounds of full contact sparring. The guys I trained with didn't pull any punches. They didn't go soft. They went full effort and if you take a knee to ribs - you go down hard.

You other guys must have had back luck with the wrong places. Training can be as hard as you make it. Training method os the key here. If you have club which does not push it;s students and over focus' on kata - then don't expect much. But if you have a club which does full contact sparring, lots of pad work and fitness drills then you have something worthwhile. That's the way I see it.

 

[devante]

That's exactly right.

Nobody is going to tell me Karate cannot work. I trained in Kyokushin Karate for a few years and it was brutal. I wanted to do a bit of striking and try something different from Freestyle Wrestling. In my fist Kyokushin lesson I was amazed. My instructor drilled us all like dogs.

The training was very harsh which left you soaked in sweat and ready to collapse after every lesson. My Kyokushin instructor was a Natioanl Champion here in Australia and he also fought in a World Title over in Japan. Kyokushin training is very hard, it produces great fighters and it shows. We did all sorts of stuff like sprints up and down the hall, I had to pick up a 90kg guy on your soulders and carry him around the room, hundereds of kicks pads. Do 300 turning kicks on the kick shields follwed by 200 pushups. It was nuts. All this follwed by a few rounds of full contact sparring. The guys I trained with didn't pull any punches. They didn't go soft. They went full effort and if you take a knee to ribs - you go down hard.

You other guys must have had back luck with the wrong places. Training can be as hard as you make it. Training method os the key here. If you have club which does not push it;s students and over focus' on kata - then don't expect much. But if you have a club which does full contact sparring, lots of pad work and fitness drills then you have something worthwhile. That's the way I see it.

this

im not even a karate guy; but i have experienced firsthand how effective it can be and is when you are dealing w/a real martial artist, an not some clown who is learning a watered down or cardio based version of it. My dad did tkd in and was made to learn to defend throws and pins; also did continuous sparring, i.e. you get knocked down, you will get stomped and kicked til u get up and if you can't do better you will get knocked back down.

on this board and in the grappling forum i am constantly sticking up for the legitimacy of the art and it's practitioners; an im talking about people who train it seriously and w/purpose. An everytime i am met w/comments about how NOW that machida is here, everyone thinks karate is the sh*t; when in fact many of us knew it for years. Having done mostly grappling, boxing, and mma type training; i have sparred mt bjj judoka boxers kickboxers submission wrestlers jkd guys and so on, an i find the karate dudes to be just as dangerous if not moreso *i have trained w/sparred kyokushinai hapkido kenpo shotokan tkd vovinam goju ryu shorin ryu and a few others* An im talking about mma type sparring and while im no world champ or national champ or pro or amateur fighter; i do know what im doing and have done so against the so called more effective fighting arts, so based on my exp and based on what i have seen karate guys do to practitioners of other arts i will never believe it's not effective.

as i often say when someone tells me about the karate guy they handled, i probably just know a better caliber of karate practitioner than you do; an from what alot of people on here describe, noone has convinced me that is not the case.

 

[panamaican]

That is the truth, there are a lot of guys training karate who would be crappy no matter what art they trained. They just don't have the tools and got a McDojo belt and represent karate very poorly. You take an elite athlete with great training and karate will more than hold it's own. You take the kid who couldn't make the fencing team with so-so instruction and karate is embarrassingly bad.

But it's the same for every art. Train hard, so fights are easy!

 

[kyokushinjitsu]

Kyokushin=Ultimate Truth

 

[Hotora86]

Amazing,the shotokan practiced here in Brazil is not like the described by people living in other places.
in the 70's there used to be interstyle challenges between gyms in S

 

[OAKS]

I'd really like to see some source on that.

On the topic, I'm a huge Karate fan but I'll admit that it's not the best option for MMA. Karate is meant for self-defence first and foremost so the tactics are completely different from an MMA fight. Land your power strike (temple, solar plexus, balls) and escape, use straight punches since they're faster than the looping ones some chav with throw at you, stun the guy and run. Karate is great against the untrained opponent when you need to keep your distance, stay alert and escape ASAP. Not good for a cage/ring with a well trained fighter waiting for you. Even the typical guard/stance is more like a natural position than a fighting one so you can get used to reacting from it quickly.
In that context, it's even more impressive watching guys like Machida and Kikuno using typical Karate stances, guards and tactics successfully in MMA.
And BTW the old Okinawan Karate was a mix of styles from Japan, China and the Philippines - it had punching, kicking, open hand strikes, elbows, knees, throws and submissions plus weapon training and the Karateka kept cross-training all their lives - so it was like an ancient MMA style. The commercialization and sport aspect of Karate have made them one-dimensional and unwilling to evolve. But thanks to MMA, this is beginning to change and many Karate people are developing again. Machida Karate is an evolution of Shotokan but the concept of mixing is actually a return to the roots of Karate itself.

The last part of your post is very accurate. I am constantly surprised that so many people that watch MMA and are into combat sports don't realize this. They seem to think that mixing different fighting ranges and cross-training with others is a fairly new phenomenon when actually the rigid MA that you have seen the past few decades is the exception, not the rule.

Take Miyagi, the founder of Goju-ryu. He practiced Naha-te karate, did judo while he was in the army, and traveled to China to learn where his instructor trained at. Miyagi was also big into conditioning exercises and strength training. Funakoshi, founder of Shotokan, participated in tegumi (Okinawan wrestling), trained with several different karate masters, and also learned some judo from his friend Jigoro Kano, founder of judo.

Mixed Martial Arts isn't new, it is a return to the old ways.

 

[Too Defensive**]

I'd really like to see some source on that.

On the topic, I'm a huge Karate fan but I'll admit that it's not the best option for MMA. Karate is meant for self-defence first and foremost so the tactics are completely different from an MMA fight. Land your power strike (temple, solar plexus, balls) and escape, use straight punches since they're faster than the looping ones some chav with throw at you, stun the guy and run. Karate is great against the untrained opponent when you need to keep your distance, stay alert and escape ASAP. Not good for a cage/ring with a well trained fighter waiting for you.

Dead on. Karate TKD and the like are great for self defense. Brawling it out with a MT gut is a bad idea.