Anyone honestly have an answer?

different fight, different night, different training, different opponent, different technique.

tons of reasons.

How is it that some of the best strikers in the world couldn't KO mirko crocop in his prime but kevin randleman did? A) Shit happens. B) When you're worrying about a takedown you leave yourself open to getting punched

same thing is true in reverse, if you're worried about nothing but striking, you leave yourself open to a takedown.
 
MrFeeny said:
i think the opposite.

jones striking in this didn't impress too much. And he also reaffirmed his lack of power.

gus kos him in the 2nd or 3rd when he commits to a power combo, after having already won the first round on points.
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Gus threw everything at him in the first fight and couldn't get a KO. Why does he get it in this fight?
 
Jones gets all his takedowns stuffed, then Gus plays patty-cake with Jones' face again en route to a hilarious Decision win for that viking guy.
 
ackileez said:
Same height/reach.

Gus was a boxer...Jones is...well friggen JONES.
Jones BARELY took down GUS, when he got hit by a hellbow and was gassed for 4 rounds.

Thats the damn truth, jones ball lickers dont like admiting.

watching the UFC for years we all know that strikers facing elite wrestlers 9/10 its a floor mopping.

Jones when faced with a guy his height/reach suddenly hes not an elite wrestler?

PLEASE
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It's harder to TD a shorter guy then it is when he's taller/same height.
 
It's LEVERAGE, people...LEVERAGE. I've been saying it for a long time now.

Jones long legs and high waist mean that when he sprawls, his base is really widely distributed, effectively lowering his center of gravity well below what his height portrays.

You know the Shogun sweep...where he pommels under your knee with his off arm and turns into you? I remember fearing for him attempting this against Jones because a) Jones would be prepared for it and b) his base would make it nearly impossible to complete. Sure enough, Shogun gets taken down in the first, reaches under for the sweep and burns himself out, straining relentlessly for a technique that's normally foolproof. The problem was that the foot on Jones' plant leg was resting 2 feet further away than most of Shogun's opponents.


Gustafsson is the only person in the division who could effectively bodylock, elevate, and tip Jones' center of gravity enough to effectively take him down, because of their comparable physiques. It helped even more that he turned and chased the TD to completion (he also ambushed Jones a bit which probably helped).

DC's in-fighting strategy was wrong because he couldn't displace Jones' c-o-g the way he could with the more conventionally proportioned HW's. Being shorter, he would have to effectively lift Jones' much, much higher than Gus to achieve the same effect, which is made even more difficult by being forced to carry Jones' HW upper body.


So again, LEVERAGE. It's not purely a matter of technique vs technique, its the way Jones' implements technique in conjunction with his physique.
 
Great answers. I've been considering some of the same. It really does miff me though because Gus has very little ground game outside of that fight.

I find it a little odd so many just assume "element of surprise" though. While I of course assume it's a factor that Jones didn't train extra-time on the Gus takedown.... it's the Jackson gym. You'd think his overall wrestling skill would suffice.

Also, can I just say how weird it is for me, being a long-time fan, how 6'3-6'5 is a standard LHW height now? I recognize that this happens in sports, as NFL linebackers used to be 170lbs. But it's just crazy to me we're talking about 6'5 men cutting to 205 rather than fighting at HW. (Sorry for the sidebar)
 
KillingJoke said:
5'9
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Nope...

Cormier got the pocket loads of times in the first 3 rounds and hit jones with bombs .... He just doesn't have the punching power ....


So basically, you need a mark hunt with cains cardio .... Or a prime Tyson ... Neither of which exist in the UFC
 
I'm surprised people aren't all giving the same blatantly obvious answer. Jon, and no one, expected Gus to go for a takedown. Afterwards Gus didn't get another takedown on Jon. Jon was training boxing for Gus and was only expecting that. Against DC he was expecting to be grappled with so he stopped it.
 
DC is too damn short. There's your answer ts. Go to bed now.
 
Kickwrestler said:
I disagree. Jones has a ton of training partners of similar build to DC, whereas to emulate Gustafsson, all hes got is Travis Browne... Who has literally nothing in common with him except build.

Gustafsson has the same advantage with the experience he gained from the first fight.

And this may be an unpopular opinion... But i think Jones isnt as good as he was 2-3 years ago. Hes a totally different, more predictable fighter now and im not sure if he can make any huge overnight improvements. He pretty much is what he is at this point.

Gustafsson, by comparison, still seems to be improving... Plus his big toe isnt held together with super glue.
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Tbh, I couldn't disagree more, but to each his own. Gus is one of those weird opponents that has freak strength, dangerous striking, and a relentless will to win/finish, not denying that whatsoever.

But look at what Jones had to do in preparation for this fight, setting himself up for an opponent/athlete that skill level is up there with something he's never faced before. I have Cormier beating each and everyone of Jones' last opponents, although a Gus/Cormier fight is an extremely weird fight to predict.

And also, what you said about Cormier's build has nothing to do with his preparation for the fight. Cormier may have his build, but he's one of those guys who refuses to let that hold him back. The Silva and Barnett fight being examples of that. Cormier has natural athletic ability to close distance, regardless of the size disadvantage, which is why I believed Cormier had a better chance to win the fight disregarding his overall build. I mean, for fucks sake, Silva pulled guard against the guy.

What Jones did tonight may not have been an "overnight improvement" but it shows that Jones has been able to train and make changes in correspondence to different opponents.
 
ZapatasGuns said:
DC is too damn short. There's your answer ts. Go to bed now.
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Dont' think that's more than a very small supplemental answer.

HaterSlayer said:
I'm surprised people aren't all giving the same blatantly obvious answer. Jon, and no one, expected Gus to go for a takedown. Afterwards Gus didn't get another takedown on Jon. Jon was training boxing for Gus and was only expecting that. Against DC he was expecting to be grappled with so he stopped it.
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I feel at least 3 people gave that answer already.
 
Length or more specifically leverage is the answer
 
Probably speed and size (length).. getting in a better position to take advantage of leverage and momentum where as DC was trying to stand in front of him and muscle through.
 
What has Cormier done at LHW again?

There's a reason GSP and Jones refused to budge and stayed in their division.
 
Gus surprised him

Jones trained and prepped for Cormier knowing he's a wrestler
 
schwe30 said:
Then he wouldn't have been taking down tall HWs...

height had little to do with it.
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Height had a lot to do with it. Gus took him down. Do you think Gus is a better wrestler than DC? I'll answer that for you, no.
 
Handawg said:
Tbh, I couldn't disagree more... to different opponents.
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That'd be fair to say.

Yeah his improvements are still coming along, but IMO they're not as apparent, fight-to-fight now. I honestly think a late 2011 Jones would've finished Glover very, very quickly.

And yeah, DC presents things that are head and shoulders above any of his previous opponents. But to be fair to myself, i do believe there are "more DCs" out there then "Gustafssons"... Even though DC is still so unique/freakishly talented. His build is just more common, thats all. (EDIT: The weight cut probably didn't help)

Gus has just as hard of a time finding training partners as Jones does, what with only 15% of the population breaking 6 foot even, and even less that are elite level martial artists.

Neither of them have ever faced an opponent anything like each other. Thats what makes it so interesting/fun.
 
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