Anyone honestly have an answer?

[DaysOfThunder]

What surprised me the most was how quickly DC gassed after the 3d round. He probably came in weak after the weight cut. He clearly focused on stand up the first few rounds. Jones definitely has a great take down defense and his knees could have done a lot of damage in the early stages of the fight. My guess is that DC's game plan was to out box Jones and try to take him out early on but he came into the fight way too emotional. It was probably Jones's pre-fight game plan to mess with DC's head and take him out of his usual game plan. In that he succeeded. Had DC not been gassed by the 4th round, I'm sure DC would have tried more to implement the ground and pound. As it was, Jones appeared to be physically too strong for him. Another shocker.

 

[MilesAbove]

You obviously never wrestled.

As a 5'9 130 and 134, Greco and Freestyle respectively.

 

[Dart Feld]

What surprised me the most was how quickly DC gassed after the 3d round. He probably came in weak after the weight cut. He clearly focused on stand up the first few rounds. Jones definitely has a great take down defense and his knees could have done a lot of damage in the early stages of the fight. My guess is that DC's game plan was to out box Jones and try to take him out early on but he came into the fight way too emotional. It was probably Jones's pre-fight game plan to mess with DC's head and take him out of his usual game plan. In that he succeeded. Had DC not been gassed by the 4th round, I'm sure DC would have tried more to implement the ground and pound. As it was, Jones appeared to be physically too strong for him. Another shocker.

Cormier confirmed in the post fight show and then once more in the post fight press conference than Jones hurt him early with a body shot and every body shot after that took more and more away from him.

It's one of the reasons Cormier slowed down later in the fight.

 

[Nedders]

Look at this gif vs Rampage. This does a pretty good job demonstrating the mechanical advantage (LEVERAGE!!) that gives Jones' wrestling its potency.

At the outset, he's got over unders, and look at how far away he hides his base from his opponent. Imagine if you were looking for a single leg from the clinch, and look at where Jones' knee is in order for you to even attempt it. Then think about how far away his opposite leg is planted in order to defend your attempt. Then consider the fact that you're carrying the full weight of his large upper body while doing so.

Then toward the end of the gif (4:25-ish) near the cage, you see him spread his base even further to attempt the TD.

 

[Diggem]

Jones was still injured when he fought Gus so that is why he wasn't as effective. The haters would like to think Gus has some sort of mystical powers but he doesn't. :icon_lol:

 

[Kickwrestler]

Jones was still injured when he fought Gus so that is why he wasn't as effective. The haters would like to think Gus has some sort of mystical powers but he doesn't. :icon_lol:

He doesn't have mystical powers, its very clear.

He's just a superior fighter.

(Btw... Everybody is injured all the time, these guys arent playing golf, its fighting)

 

[Sigmafight]

Same answer as i wrote in another thread:

His problem wasn't really gassing

What DC needed to beat Jones was another 2-3" in height, and 5+" in reach, in exchange for some blubber.

You could tell in the clinch, that Daniel had to stand up straight with underhooks, raising his centre of gravity and diminishing his balance and control. Not to mention there is no real forward pressure when standing tall like that. You have to drive in to the person.

Jones on the other hand has a deeper driving position even from holding overhooks than DC with underhooks.

I've been trying to tell you guys for a long time now.

Jones is too tall and too reachy. Physics is on his side.

DC could fight the uphill battle against worse opponenets, but the disadvantage is too severe against Jones, who is also closer to his skill level, which just exacerbates the original frame issue.

 

[skylolow]

I think its actually pretty simple.

DC loves to throw down in the clinch. He is in love with his dirty boxing. Jones did the opposite of what everyone thought he'd do. Jones played right into DC's strength and game plan to keep Jones close and push/set the pace. Mentally I'm sure DC thought he was in the perfect position to take this fight and it was only a matter of time that he hit the right combo and hurt Jones bad. So he didn't push for a takedown as much as most of us thought he would. Not too mention Jones height and length causes headaches for short fighters.

It was DC's match to win and he couldn't do it.

 

[Zap]

As a 5'9 130 and 134, Greco and Freestyle respectively.

Than you should know that its harder to take down longer wrestler, I'm not saying it's the only reason DC couldn't take him down but it is a big factor. Jones has awesome td defense as well. Those two combos are very effective, especially vs a shorter opponent.

 

[Sigmafight]

Than you should know that its harder to take down longer wrestler, I'm not saying it's the only reason DC couldn't take him down but it is a big factor. Jones has awesome td defense as well. Those two combos are very effective, especially vs a shorter opponent.

I disagree.

I did not see any great technique on Jones' part. His wrestling is very basic, very rudimentary.
The takedowns was just a huge guy, shoveling the legs out from under a small-average sized guy, using extreme leverage and torque.

I'm not saying Jones is a terrible wrester. Jones is a good wrestler.
But in my opinion he is not near the level of Cormier.

Jones is carried by his particular frame most of the way. His personality, creativity, confidence, carries him the rest.

None of what he does would be possible if he was normal sized. And you fight with wat you have, i get that, and he does a great job of that.

But it's just not skill vs skill, in my honest opinion

 

[Zap]

I disagree.

I did not see any great technique on Jones' part. His wrestling is very basic, very rudimentary.
The takedowns was just a huge guy, shoveling the legs out from under a small-average sized guy, using extreme leverage and torque.

I'm not saying Jones is a terrible wrester. Jones is a good wrestler.
But in my opinion he is not near the level of Cormier.

Jones is carried by his particular frame most of the way. His personality, creativity, confidence, carries him the rest.

None of what he does would be possible if he was normal sized. And you fight with wat you have, i get that, and he does a great job of that.

But it's just not skill vs skill, in my honest opinion

Cormier is a better wrestler no doubt but I feel Jones combination of technique and length give his opponents fits when they go for the take down. He uses his height very well.
You forgot to mention Jones heart, grit and conditioning. Dude has it all and I'm not even a fan. I was going for DC but Jones owned him. Plain and simple.

 

[MrCarano]

Why Gus took down Jones twice and Cormier couldnt more than one pointless "slam"? It's astounding to me.

Striking sets up takedowns and vice-versa. Bones was respecting Gus' striking, so it opened him up for takedowns. GSP is able to out-strike better strikers b/c of his wrestling, and is able to out-wrestle better wrestlers (except for Hendricks) b/c of his striking.

 

[MrCarano]

I disagree.

I did not see any great technique on Jones' part. His wrestling is very basic, very rudimentary.
The takedowns was just a huge guy, shoveling the legs out from under a small-average sized guy, using extreme leverage and torque.

I'm not saying Jones is a terrible wrester. Jones is a good wrestler.
But in my opinion he is not near the level of Cormier.

Jones is carried by his particular frame most of the way. His personality, creativity, confidence, carries him the rest.

None of what he does would be possible if he was normal sized. And you fight with wat you have, i get that, and he does a great job of that.

But it's just not skill vs skill, in my honest opinion

When you can shove basic technique's down another fighter's throat, then you have quite a bit of skill. BJ Penn used to call it "advanced basics". A rear-naked choke is something a white belt learns, but BJ would just impose his will and put it on you anyways.

 

[edirp]

That's because Gus has underrated wrestling.

 

[Bones245n4847]

Jones was caught off guard by a non-wrestler. I only saw 1 true takedown in the Gus fight though. Also Gus vs Jones is a Lion and Tiger. 2 big jungle cats. Cormier was a house cat clinching with a Lion and got put on ass.