Food & Drink Anyone here done AA meetings or the like?

[mozfonky]

All of this window dressing comes down to one thing: Control.

pretty much. Sometimes i think i'd be further along if I were like that, but I'm plain not and wouldn't really want to be.

 

[evergreenrider]

All of this window dressing comes down to one thing: Control.

Not only does this hit the nail on the head, it knocks it into a living death. Ultimately, it boils down to control. One must accept you only have control over your actions and how you react to actions and environments. Everything else is beyond control. Hard fucking thing to accept for many.

 

[Crazy Source]

Had to do group when I was on a suboxone prescription through kaiser. Its fucking incredibly awkward and embarrassing at first. And the longer you let the feelings be at the forefront it'll always suck and you'll gain nothing from it. The quicker you open to it honestly and actively participate, the quicker it's no longer uncomfortable and awkward. And you'll learn alot in the process. Not only about yourself, it opens your perspective to addiction. Helped me tremendously find and allow empathy into my once cold dead heart.

Opiates are fucking brutal. I was going to leave you with a long post but just know that while I may not have been as deep as you were in it, I've been around it and dabbled. Solid work getting out. I'm sure you have lost friends.

 

[mozfonky]

Had to do group when I was on a suboxone prescription through kaiser. Its fucking incredibly awkward and embarrassing at first. And the longer you let the feelings be at the forefront it'll always suck and you'll gain nothing from it. The quicker you open to it honestly and actively participate, the quicker it's no longer uncomfortable and awkward. And you'll learn alot in the process. Not only about yourself, it opens your perspective to addiction. Helped me tremendously find and allow empathy into my once cold dead heart.

I never drank or drugged as I mentioned and my program was ACA, I have mixed feelings about it and it did some good for me. My experience really is idiosyncratic though, I went through some things during those years that made me feel so low down I never got over any of it. It killed my faith and made me more solitary than I already was.

Also, ACA isn't even around anymore as far as I know, AA is. ACA maybe wasn't right as far as what most of us needed. I met some very good people in their though, just people you'd never think would be the way they were. One woman who always sticks out in my memory seemed to be one of those frigid, repressed older women but the longer she was in their and the things she said to me without pretense and with true caring just still leaves me feeling ashamed for being so standoffish.

I also had a close friend I met there who once we'd both stopped the program, he got into pot and lost his fucking mind, our friendship didn't survive that as he got more and more paranoid, we spoke so sparingly at the end that I wouldn't know if he'd gotten into other things but he probably did. I know he was back dabbling with Cocaine. Like I said, some people need a real threat over their head like, "you are never recovered" without that they backslide. My ma was a horrible alcoholic but she never drank again after 42 or so and she didn't keep going to meetings once she kicked the habit, my uncle and aunt didn't need to constantly go to meetings but some people probably should never leave.

 

[evergreenrider]

I never drank or drugged as I mentioned and my program was ACA, I have mixed feelings about it and it did some good for me. My experience really is idiosyncratic though, I went through some things during those years that made me feel so low down I never got over any of it. It killed my faith and made me more solitary than I already was.

Also, ACA isn't even around anymore as far as I know, AA is. ACA maybe wasn't right as far as what most of us needed. I met some very good people in their though, just people you'd never think would be the way they were. One woman who always sticks out in my memory seemed to be one of those frigid, repressed older women but the long she was in their and the things she said to me without pretense and with true caring just still leaves me feeling ashamed for being so standoffish.

I also had a close friend I met there who once we'd both stopped the program, he got into pot and lost his fucking mind, our friendship didn't survive that as he got more and more paranoid, we spoke so sparingly at the end that I wouldn't know if he'd gotten into other things but he probably did. I know he was back dabbling with Cocaine. Like I said, some people need a real threat over their head like, "you are never recovered" without that they backslide. My ma was a horrible alcoholic but she never drank again after 42 or so and she didn't keep going to meetings once she kicked the habit, my uncle and aunt didn't need to constantly go to meetings but some people probably should never leave.

People don't need a threat to maintain sobriety, imo. They haven't done the internal work within themselves. Addiction is generally driven by self medicating for a plethora of reasons. If you haven't even identified the root problems, you're going to slide back. At least this is my perspective. And we have to accept, there's simply no "fixing" some addicts. It's as much a part of them as their hands and feet.

 

[mozfonky]

People don't need a threat to maintain sobriety, imo. They haven't done the internal work within themselves. Addiction is generally driven by self medicating for a plethora of reasons. If you haven't even identified the root problems, you're going to slide back. At least this is my perspective. And we have to accept, there's simply no "fixing" some addicts. It's as much a part of them as their hands and feet.

The general idea is you are powerless and you are always an addict, some people need that over their heads. As far as fixing? I don' tknow if anything but god can fix us, my ma, my uncle, myself, none of us became healed by any of the things we tried. My uncle became a pompous, pontificating ex alcoholic but he was still a compulsive talker who obsessed about the same things, which is a form of addiction. My mom never got over the things that warped her. But.., not drinking added years to their lives. As for me, again, I never drank or drugged but I kinda accept that I'll never get over depression or the horrible things I've been through until I'm dead or riddled with alzheimers. I do not think that everything has a resolution. That doesn't mean we shouldn't struggle in the darkness and I do and we should.

I do think many of us who were beaten, or who maybe had some serious sexual trauma or loss of a parent as a young child or whatever, those things might not be healable. Now, I know that there's always people who think there are ways but I've never found them, if you do good for you. As I've said, I really don't have a lotta faith left but I do still say that AA has helped the people I've known a lot. My uncle told me he was such a severe alcoholic that he was hallucinating and locked in a psych ward, that's pretty severe, my ma was there too, and my sister was probably about that bad. My sister was the one true contrarian and fought anyone who tried to do anything for her and she died young and horribly.

 

[evergreenrider]

Opiates are fucking brutal. I was going to leave you with a long post but just know that while I may not have been as deep as you were in it, I've been around it and dabbled. Solid work getting out. I'm sure you have lost friends.

Opiates are the single most sinister class of drugs. Personally I think they were intentionally pushed in an attempt to pacify a portion of the population.

I love and hate opiates. I always describe them as being the key to a lock i didn't even know existed in me. For real made me feel like a complete, "normal" person for the first time in my life.

The nodded over zombies, people falling asleep mid sentence? No. Opiates hit me in an entirely different way. Energy, focus, ability to filter out distractions.

I say this because it's what helped contribute to a near 2 decade long opiate addiction. I started well ahead of the curve. I'm 43, and started in high school. Back then getting them for free, or trading for a little reefer was the norm. I maintained recreational status throughout high school and early adulthood.

Then the real flood came. Opiates overflowing to anyone interested. Full blown addiction quickly follows. Was able to afford my habit due to sheer numbers keeping prices low.

Crackdowns came, and pills skyrocketed in price. That's when the heroin came up to bat. Why didn't I do this earlier?? So much more economically viable I kept telling myself. Downhill from there. Snorting black tar after mixing with some clabber girl.

I dont know why, how, or when the switch finally flipped for me. Woke up one day and said I'm done. Sourced suboxone on the street for I dunno, 6-12 months. Finally got myself in a suboxone program after realizing how incredibly easy it was.

Suboxone is cool if you have a plan. If you dont, they fully intend on making you a lifetime user. It's in the literature to be used as a long term treatment. Shit also has its own nasty little sideffects. Tooth damage and Elvis Presley dying on the porcelain throne constipation mainly. Few times I came to terms and accepted death on the toilet.

Covid came. Laid off work. Lose my insurance. Used kratom to step off the subs. Haven't used any form of opiate since. I'm still fully retarded though lol

 

[evergreenrider]

The general idea is you are powerless and you are always an addict, some people need that over their heads. As far as fixing? I don' tknow if anything but god can fix us, my ma, my uncle, myself, none of us became healed by any of the things we tried. My uncle became a pompous, pontificating ex alcoholic but he was still a compulsive talker who obsessed about the same things, which is a form of addiction. My mom never got over the things that warped her. But.., not drinking added years to their lives. As for me, again, I never drank or drugged but I kinda accept that I'll never get over depression or the horrible things I've been through until I'm dead or riddled with alzheimers. I do not think that everything has a resolution. That doesn't mean we shouldn't struggle in the darkness and I do and we should.

I do think many of us who were beaten, or who maybe had some serious sexual trauma or loss of a parent as a young child or whatever, those things might not be healable. Now, I know that there's always people who think there are ways but I've never found them, if you do good for you. As I've said, I really don't have a lotta faith left but I do still say that AA has helped the people I've known a lot. My uncle told me he was such a severe alcoholic that he was hallucinating and locked in a psych ward, that's pretty severe, my ma was there too, and my sister was probably about that bad. My sister was the one true contrarian and fought anyone who tried to do anything for her and she died young and horribly.

I appreciate your honesty and openness. I guess I was being ignorant and confident in my statement. Addiction is such a complex fucking beast. You're right. Some people do need that "threat". I would like to think it comes from a yearning for structure in their life. It's tough man. I hope you and your family find peace, wherever that may be or come from.

 

[mozfonky]

my idol Prince died of opiates, he seemed to be one of those who wasn't put into a stupor by them, many of us fans were totally blindsided by how he died.

Elvis was the other side of that, people saw that coming a mile away and no one could really do anything. Even a huge fan like Bruce Springsteen said he'd seen Elvis live not long before and his death "wasn't surprising". Elvis was one of those too prideful (prince was that too) to admit he was helpless and hooked and died with that stupid pride telling one of his former friends in a recorded conversation that he'd never been healthier when his friend correctly told him, "you'd been pretty fucked up".

 

[mozfonky]

I appreciate your honesty and openness. I guess I was being ignorant and confident in my statement. Addiction is such a complex fucking beast. You're right. Some people do need that "threat". I would like to think it comes from a yearning for structure in their life. It's tough man. I hope you and your family find peace, wherever that may be or come from.

it's ok, we're all struggling, I still am, I haven't quit praying through all of it and wonder if there even is a God sometimes.

 

[evergreenrider]

my idol Prince died of opiates, he seemed to be one of those who wasn't put into a stupor by them, many of us fans were totally blindsided by how he died.

Elvis was the other side of that, people saw that coming a mile away and no one could really do anything. Even a huge fan like Bruce Springsteen said he'd seen Elvis live not long before and his death "wasn't surprising". Elvis was one of those too prideful (prince was that too) to admit he was helpless and hooked and died with that stupid pride telling one of his former friends in a recorded conversation that he'd never been healthier when his friend correctly told him, "you'd been pretty fucked up".

Elvis was manipulated and always in a form of intoxication as a means of control by his manager. I used to listen to talk radio a ton, Don and Mike would do a yearly Elvis show on his death. Often listing off his yearly prescription totals. Absolutely unreal. Tens of thousands of every upper, downer, and all arounder under the sun. Every year increasing in volume.

Prince I theorize got addicted because opiates effected him similarly to my experience. Energy, outgoingness, creativity. They like to say it's because his shoes on stage, I don't buy it. Wouldn't have to be sourcing black market. Prince was a seemingly introverted kind of guy. Opiates can instantly make you the extrovert life of the party. Of course this is all my own retarded views and theories. And I accept, I'm probably far off the mark

 

[Crazy Source]

Opiates are the single most sinister class of drugs. Personally I think they were intentionally pushed in an attempt to pacify a portion of the population.

I love and hate opiates. I always describe them as being the key to a lock i didn't even know existed in me. For real made me feel like a complete, "normal" person for the first time in my life.

The nodded over zombies, people falling asleep mid sentence? No. Opiates hit me in an entirely different way. Energy, focus, ability to filter out distractions.

I say this because it's what helped contribute to a near 2 decade long opiate addiction. I started well ahead of the curve. I'm 43, and started in high school. Back then getting them for free, or trading for a little reefer was the norm. I maintained recreational status throughout high school and early adulthood.

Then the real flood came. Opiates overflowing to anyone interested. Full blown addiction quickly follows. Was able to afford my habit due to sheer numbers keeping prices low.

Crackdowns came, and pills skyrocketed in price. That's when the heroin came up to bat. Why didn't I do this earlier?? So much more economically viable I kept telling myself. Downhill from there. Snorting black tar after mixing with some clabber girl.

I dont know why, how, or when the switch finally flipped for me. Woke up one day and said I'm done. Sourced suboxone on the street for I dunno, 6-12 months. Finally got myself in a suboxone program after realizing how incredibly easy it was.

Suboxone is cool if you have a plan. If you dont, they fully intend on making you a lifetime user. It's in the literature to be used as a long term treatment. Shit also has its own nasty little sideffects. Tooth damage and Elvis Presley dying on the porcelain throne constipation mainly. Few times I came to terms and accepted death on the toilet.

Covid came. Laid off work. Lose my insurance. Used kratom to step off the subs. Haven't used any form of opiate since. I'm still fully retarded though lol

Amazing story. Had no idea that you could mix bake with black tar to make it sniffable, for lack of a better word. I assume that is what you meant. When I tried to get heavy into that it just made me sick, thank God. Seems you kept your humor. We all have our own paths. We can be warned, but living it is the only way you learn. It takes more of a toll on some than others.

 

[Crazy Source]

it's ok, we're all struggling, I still am, I haven't quit praying through all of it and wonder if there even is a God sometimes.

Really appreciate your honesty. It's a wonderful trait.

 

[evergreenrider]

Amazing story. Had no idea that you could mix bake with black tar to make it sniffable, for lack of a better word. I assume that is what you meant. When I tried to get heavy into that it just made me sick, thank God. Seems you kept your humor. We all have our own paths. We can be warned, but living it is the only way you learn. It takes more of a toll on some than others.

My personality did not allow me to not learn the hard way. I heeded not a single warning. So fucking sure of self. Real yeah well, ain't gonna happen to me energy. Lie detector test determined that was a lie lol. Even when presented with those get out of jail early cards, presented an option to hit escape. Never once capitalized. The human experience is indescribable in its complexity. I KNOW I've changed, obviously some ways for the better. But shit. To completely deprogram a lifetime, and slowly rebuild in hopefully a better version. I'm beginning to think may be impossible. Doesn't mean you quit trying. Sometimes acknowledgement is what's needed i guess.

 

[evergreenrider]

Really appreciate your honesty. It's a wonderful trait.

What was pushed as being one of the most non masculine things to do for a majority of my life. Ended up being the most manly thing you can do. Sharing feelings and being open about yourself with others? Lol ok. My old man still can't, and never will. It makes him incredibly uncomfortable displaying those characteristics. Not because he's a bad guy. It's just a foreign concept that makes many boomers feel some sort of way they ain't used to lol

 

[Crazy Source]

What was pushed as being one of the most non masculine things to do for a majority of my life. Ended up being the most manly thing you can do. Sharing feelings and being open about yourself with others? Lol ok. My old man still can't, and never will. It makes him incredibly uncomfortable displaying those characteristics. Not because he's a bad guy. It's just a foreign concept that makes many boomers feel some sort of way they ain't used to lol

My pops wasn't like that. He was a boomer, but he was very open with showing love and emotion. The problem is, he thought love and abuse were intertwined. Never hit me, but my mom took a bit, and the mental abuse was biting and cruel.

 

[Crazy Source]

@koquerelle Opened up his own fucking meeting up in here.

 

[evergreenrider]

My pops wasn't like that. He was a boomer, but he was very open with showing love and emotion. The problem is, he thought love and abuse were intertwined. Never hit me, but my mom took a bit, and the mental abuse was biting and cruel.

The mental/pyscological abuse/ neglect is what ultimately ended up doing a number on me. My old man was a traveling industrial roofer when I was younger. Saw him 1.5 days out of the week until I was 8 or so. Took way to long to get used to dad, and took dad way too long to get used to son. Mom would prefer not to actively parent, while also being controlling to a degree I've yet to come across. Which is a weird combo to possess lol. We like to point fingers at groups not our own for the decline of america. We need to look much more internally.

 

[Fury]

100%. If you're an alcoholic, they can drink and feel better than you. If you just don't feel like drinking, they have to look inward and wonder why they always have a few drinks whenever they go out.

It's always weird because I never announce that I'm not drinking, I just don't order a drink. Somehow it becomes a thing.

Also, I don't care if other people drink a little, a lot or none for whatever reason their heart tells them. So the whole concept of caring what other people order is strange to me. I don't even really pay attention to that other people order.

Then with people who know me well...I get..."what's wrong" when I do order a drink. Generally, I just saw something interesting on the list or felt like a drink.

I suppose being a non-alcoholic who rarely drinks is a hard concept for many people.

 

[Crazy Source]

It's always weird because I never announce that I'm not drinking, I just don't order a drink. Somehow it becomes a thing.

Also, I don't care if other people drink a little, a lot or none for whatever reason their heart tells them. So the whole concept of caring what other people order is strange to me. I don't even really pay attention to that other people order.

Then with people who know me well...I get..."what's wrong" when I do order a drink. Generally, I just saw something interesting on the list or felt like a drink.

I suppose being a non-alcoholic who rarely drinks is a hard concept for many people.

For alcoholics it pisses them off that you can live a normal life with alcohol. It's so foreign to people like us. I would never make you feel uncomfortable at my table for drinking whatever you want.