Anyone else think Valentina will dominate that division for a long time?

[PurpleStorm]

Getting back on topic, assuming Valentina wins the title this year and stays healthy & active for the next few years it's not going to be easy to beat her. She's not going to be like Demetrious Johnson where I can't even think of a potential path to victory for opponents; I can see some possible ways to beat her but the odds aren't that good. I don't know the 125 division nearly as well as 115 or 135 so I can't say there isn't a fighter with the skill set to do it, I don't know of one but that doesn't mean she doesn't exist.

I think Valentina's biggest threat would be a strong top control wrestler with a good enough striking game to get in range for a power double or single leg takedown. Basically, a female version of Josh Koscheck or Khabib. Clinch takedown are going to be questionable against her given her MT and Judo background along with her strong base, going after her legs is going to be the best way to get her down. Get her down, keep her down, run out the clock.

Nicco's good in the clinch, can hit double leg takedowns, has strong TDD. She adjusts well to different styles. Val didn't ruthlessly dominate anyone in the UFC prior to last weekend. Val will be favored because of her experience. But Nicco's strong & versatile, demonstrated by her TUF fights.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Tatiana Suarez

Shev has two other weaknesses.

First, she engaged grapplling exchange when she shouldn't in the past. Crafty ground fighters like Alexis Davis have a chance if Shev follows the fight to the ground.

Second, her low output against other top strikers could cost her fights due to close decision. JJ could have a chance if her chin holds up at 125, Ariane Lipski is still a raw talent but her KO punching power could force Shev into super low output mode again.

Her biggest issue with grappling exchanges in the past is being substantially smaller than her opponents. I agree her overall output has been low, but we should see her open up a bit more. But I think JJ has shit for a chance.

 

[Askafan]

Her biggest issue with grappling exchanges in the past is being substantially smaller than her opponents. I agree her overall output has been low, but we should see her open up a bit more. But I think JJ has shit for a chance.

How do you see a scrap with Eubanks going - she's the second best bjj girl in the UFC after Dern and if she managed to make 125 would probably have a few pounds on Val in the fight? No doubt Shev would aim to keep it on the feet and these grapplers do seem to get seduced into the striking game.

 

[Eater of Souls]

How do you see a scrap with Eubanks going - she's the second best bjj girl in the UFC after Dern and if she managed to make 125 would probably have a few pounds on Val in the fight? No doubt Shev would aim to keep it on the feet and these grapplers do seem to get seduced into the striking game.

Really she is an interesting subject for discussion. She is better on the ground, and bigger and stronger. Val has shown good takedown defense (obviously) and is great at controlling distance. I would give her the edge for this reason - well that and experience. The other factor is that Eubanks is still pretty raw, so it is hard to judge. Really, I see her consistently having trouble making weight, and this would limit her. If I were Shevchenko, I would try and drain her gastank during the early rounds. She has no chance on the feet. The headkick KO that was so talked about was thrown with her literally looking away.

Edit: If I were Val, I would insist on fighting her in California. But one of the things I like about Shevchenko is that she will just fight, DGAF.

 

[BigMuffler]

Tatiana Suarez

Shev has two other weaknesses.

First, she engaged grapplling exchange when she shouldn't in the past. Crafty ground fighters like Alexis Davis have a chance if Shev follows the fight to the ground.

Second, her low output against other top strikers could cost her fights due to close decision. JJ could have a chance if her chin holds up at 125, Ariane Lipski is still a raw talent but her KO punching power could force Shev into super low output mode again.

Isn't Suarez at 115?

 

[Eater of Souls]

Isn't Suarez at 115?

Yes.

 

[teddy078]

Isn't Suarez at 115?

She is a big strawweight.

 

[Zefram Cochrane]

Val didn't ruthlessly dominate anyone in the UFC prior to last weekend.

But Val was fighting in the wrong weight-class too. She's got weak points and many have already been discussed in this thread. Nobody is unbeatable in mma. I'm interested in watching her against Davis, but I suppose she's fighting Montano next unless her injury keeps her out longer than expected.

 

[teddy078]

Val has shown good takedown defense (obviously) and is great at controlling distance. I would give her the edge for this reason - well that and experience. The other factor is that Eubanks is still pretty raw, so it is hard to judge.

Shev's TDD is far from bulletproof, she got takendown & controlled on the ground by
Kaufman/Nunes/Pena. She is excellent at controlling distance against strikers, but grapplers didn't have much trouble to pin her to the cage. Eubanks fought like a veteran on the ground, I would say she is one of mature fighters at 125.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Shev's TDD is far from bulletproof, she got takendown & controlled on the ground by
Kaufman/Nunes/Pena. She is excellent at controlling distance against strikers, but grapplers didn't have much trouble to pin her to the cage. Eubanks fought like a veteran on the ground, I would say she is one of mature fighters at 125.

Agree, which is why I am interested to see how she does at 125, fighting women roughly her own size.

 

[aerius]

Shev has two other weaknesses.

First, she engaged grapplling exchange when she shouldn't in the past. Crafty ground fighters like Alexis Davis have a chance if Shev follows the fight to the ground.

Second, her low output against other top strikers could cost her fights due to close decision. JJ could have a chance if her chin holds up at 125, Ariane Lipski is still a raw talent but her KO punching power could force Shev into super low output mode again.

The problem is experienced fighters with the craft to pull something like that aren't good enough athletes. Davis for instance will have a pretty big speed & athleticism disadvantage against Valentina, unless Shev decides to play the clinch game she's going to get stuck at range eating punches with no way to close the gap. Eubanks looks to be the best mix of athleticism & veteran skills but I haven't seen enough of her fights yet to really say much. Probably has the best shot of the fighters I've seen at pulling it off.

JJ would get solidly decisioned. Valentina's style kills volume strikers, if you look at her fights against Holm, Nunes, or Kaufman, their volume goes down 30-40% from normal and accuracy takes a hit as well. And the clinch control that Joanna uses to both damage opponents and get herself to safety isn't an option, in fact Shevchenko will hold the advantage in the clinch. Then you have the caught kick counters, Joanna's opponents to date either don't know how to catch a kick or know what to do if one is caught (I'm looking at you, Karolina), Valentina's kick defence & counters will take away a lot of JJ's kicking game. Essentially, Joanna will forced to fight mostly with punches at distance or in the pocket while Valentina maintains her full striking game at all ranges with the potential for clinch takedowns & some ground control. That's not a trade she's going to win.

As for a power striker like Lipski forcing her into a low volume game and squeaking out a win, the problem there is skill. You need an accurate power striker with good setups & timing to do that, which is essentially a 125 version of Nunes or de Randamie. And we also need to remember that Nunes won both fights with well timed takedowns and ground control.

 

[theTKDguy]

To be honest with you, valentina is a great great fighter but she's way too conservative in the fights that matter. It might have been because she was outsized, but she throwed low volume of strikes while backpedaling. You can't expect to win rounds like that. I think that'll keep her from being a long reigning champ. I do know she was very aggressive in her last fight but it was against a can. Hope she keeps that same mentality going forward tho. She has the talent and work ethic.

 

[Dirge]

What division? How many fighters are there at 125 WMMA currently?

 

[Eater of Souls]

To be honest with you, valentina is a great great fighter but she's way too conservative in the fights that matter. It might have been because she was outsized, but she throwed low volume of strikes while backpedaling. You can't expect to win rounds like that. I think that'll keep her from being a long reigning champ. I do know she was very aggressive in her last fight but it was against a can. Hope she keeps that same mentality going forward tho. She has the talent and work ethic.

Yet she won plenty of rounds just like that, and the only fights she lost were to Nunes, mostly due to size and ground control.

 

[Trojanlegal]

I think 125 is going to be “the division” for WMMA

No. I'm a fan of WMMA and I won't waste one second defending 145. It is, as you say, a joke division created really to accomodate one fighter. But, 125 will eventually be the deepest women's division in the UFC. After the UFC poaches Invicta's 125 roster and all of the larger 115ers and small 135ers decide to fight at their natural weight, it will fill out nicely and be competitive (way more so than men's HW and LHW, for example).

And, let's talk about how dominant Valentina's reign could be AFTER she wins the belt.

Jarl

What division? How many fighters are there at 125 WMMA currently?

125 will be the premier women's division in the UFC after the dust settles. The division will feature the best of the skills from 115 and 135, plus have the more attractive (marketable) girls. The UFC has around 25 fighters in the division, but more have been signed. Eventually, the UFC will call up more from Invicta and sign more from regional circuits. Within a year or so, most of the girls from TUF will be out of the UFC or unranked.

Bellator had the headstart in 125, but due to the UFC brand, the UFC 125 division will be seen as having the best of the best. It will be interesting to see if some of the girls in Bellator move over to the UFC when their contracts expire.

 

[phantomlord]

What’s a long time ?

She can probably win the title. I’m not sure how long she could hold it. If she does indeed win the title.

I don’t know.

Then who beats her at 125? Andrea Lee?

 

[PurpleStorm]

Really she is an interesting subject for discussion. She is better on the ground, and bigger and stronger. Val has shown good takedown defense (obviously) and is great at controlling distance. I would give her the edge for this reason - well that and experience. The other factor is that Eubanks is still pretty raw, so it is hard to judge. Really, I see her consistently having trouble making weight, and this would limit her. If I were Shevchenko, I would try and drain her gastank during the early rounds. She has no chance on the feet. The headkick KO that was so talked about was thrown with her literally looking away.

Edit: If I were Val, I would insist on fighting her in California. But one of the things I like about Shevchenko is that she will just fight, DGAF.

Indeed.

Why California? Something to do with the commission rules?

 

[Eater of Souls]

Indeed.

Why California? Something to do with the commission rules?

Yup. Weight cutting.

 

[dim_]

Then who beats her at 125? Andrea Lee?

God no. Andrea Lee has been fed favourable match-ups by both Invicta and Legacy.

And she now has USADA to deal with as well, which considering her coach admitted shes used diuretics multiple times to make weight, theres the question of can she even make 125 to start with

Im gonna stick my neck out and says she will struggle to be top ten long term

 

[phantomlord]

God no. Andrea Lee has been fed favourable match-ups by both Invicta and Legacy.

And she now has USADA to deal with as well, which considering her coach admitted shes used diuretics multiple times to make weight, theres the question of can she even make 125 to start with

Im gonna stick my neck out and says she will struggle to be top ten long term

Champion : Nicco Montano
1 Sijara Eubanks

2 Lauren Murphy

3 Alexis Davis

4 Roxanne Modafferi

5 Barb Honchak

6 Liz Carmouche

7 Katlyn Chookagian
*NR
8 Jessica-Rose Clark

1
9 Jessica Eye

1
10 Montana De La Rosa

2
11 Mara Romero Borella

2
12 Rachael Ostovich

1
13 Paige VanZant

1
14 Shana Dobson

1
15 Gillian Robertson

who if any of these would EVEN touch Valentina? She is a world class fighter and arguably beat Nunes in September. She will dominate this division. Easily.

PVZ lost to a bum in Jessy Jess
She smokes the champ in one round, easy
Barb, Lauren Murphy and Alexis Davis?

And you think those girls will keep Valentina as a gatekeeper?

Bout the only person who would even take Val to a decision would be Sarj, and that's if she can even make weight.