Anyone else lol when someone mentions Bruce Lee in a serious MMA-context?

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I don't know anything? You said Gracies literally founded MMA. They did not. Gracies did not promote a single MMA fight.

Single discipline arts have combined striking, grappling etc.. for thousands of years. They're still single discipline arts. Pankration existed way before the GJJ or luta livre. Pankration were promoting fights between people who cross trained in boxing and wrestling way before Vale tudo existed.
'Gracies did not promote a single MMA fight'

<18>

royce-shamrock.jpg

BJJ stand up striking is pathetic
pathetic isn't the same thing. there are no submissions in boxing, for example. BJJ is all encompassing and evolved especially for Vale Tudo AKA MMA :)
 
Edward William Barton-Wright
Look him up.
Doing what Bruce did before he was born.
that's not the point--people who know, know that pankration was a thing way before Bruce Lee, way before the Gracies and UFC or Pancrase.

the point is that like the Gracies, Bruce Lee had a platform (his voice, his movies, his brief stardom before death) to show and tell about cross training for fighting. no one is clamoring that Bruce Lee invented mma theories. I know the Gracies sure as hell did not invent jiu jitsu and mma but they have a role in popularizing jiu jitsu and spreading its practice throughout the world. Kimura broke Helio's arm and Ismail choked out Royce but again, that's not the point, the point is they still played a huge role for jiu jitsu worldwide and mma.
 
'Gracies did not promote a single MMA fight'

<18>

royce-shamrock.jpg


pathetic isn't the same thing. there are no submissions in boxing, for example. BJJ is all encompassing and evolved especially for Vale Tudo AKA MMA :)

Wasn't an MMA fight. MMA didn't exist until 1998. Vale Tudo was not MMA, Vale Tudo was Vale Tudo.

GJJ literally exists because Helio Gracie couldn't throw people so focused on ground grappling. Some mixed martial art, it was half of the art it started out as.
 
Wellllllllllllll................. Sort of. They didn't quite let everyone in.

They tried to shut out the wrestlers. Face it, a good wrestler with gnp smokes a BJJ guy. And that started 2000 years ago.
A good wrestler with GnP wins in todays rules but in the original UFC, no. There were no time limits and no rounds so the GnP wrestler tires and the BJJ guy just waits him out until he tires. Think Dan Severn / Royce Gracie.
 
'Gracies did not promote a single MMA fight'

<18>

royce-shamrock.jpg


pathetic isn't the same thing. there are no submissions in boxing, for example. BJJ is all encompassing and evolved especially for Vale Tudo AKA MMA :)
I'll concede it's existent. I was a bit too harsh on bjj.
 
Wasn't an MMA fight. MMA didn't exist until 1998. Vale Tudo was not MMA, Vale Tudo was Vale Tudo.

GJJ literally exists because Helio Gracie couldn't throw people so focused on ground grappling. Some mixed martial art, it was half of the art it started out as.
Everyone except you now consider early UFC events MMA. It does turn out that those events were literally Vale Tudo... Because MMA is Vale Tudo.
 
Bruce was great, would he get killed by mighty mouse? Yes but some things that never happened are fun to ponder on.
 
Well, that's exactly the kind of bullshit that plays against Bruce Lee : trying to pass choreographed tricks as legit fighting techniques. It's hard to rely on the testimonies and archives when you find blatant smoke and mirrors like that. IMO it's a bit like a failed drug test, it casts a shadow on all your accomplishments.

To be fair, most pre-internet martial artists legends have shady records and we mostly get hearsay and testimony from interested peers. Rickson's magical undefeated streak also makes me doubt how great he truly was, this is not something specifically against Bruce Lee. Considering his athletic gifts and his mentality, no doubt he'd have make at least a decent pro MMA fighter with adequate training, I just don't think what we have is legit enough to claim he was a once in ever fighting god.

You have many people who can testify what they saw. He was legitimate.
 
Everyone except you now consider early UFC events MMA. It does turn out that those events were literally Vale Tudo... Because MMA is Vale Tudo.

Early events were not MMA, that's a fact. MMA is not Vale Tudo, and Vale Tudo was not MMA, that's a fact. Gracies did not promote mixed martial arts, that is a fact. If anything they promoted half martial arts.
 
Yeah, thats why so many fighters name Bruce Lee as a major inspiration of theirs.

No, he wasnt an MMA fighter and az such, it's difficult to project how he would've done in MMA. But he was definitely one of the originators of the philosophy that would eventually lead to MMA. In essence, he advocated learning as much as you could from as many styles as possible and keeping what works for you and discarding the rest. That's basically exactly what modern mixed martial artists do.
/ of thread.
 
Early events were not MMA, that's a fact. MMA is not Vale Tudo, and Vale Tudo was not MMA, that's a fact. Gracies did not promote mixed martial arts, that is a fact. If anything they promoted half martial arts.
saying something is a fact doesn't make it a fact
 
There are lots of idiots who think he could wreck UFC fighters with the skill set he had. LOL.

I respect him for what he did, but Cody Mckenzie would choke him out in under a minute.

With the skill set he had I think he'd get beat down by an amateur outside if the UFC or a high school wrestler.
 
You have many people who can testify what they saw. He was legitimate.

Yep, look up what Jim Kelly said about Bruce in the gym, and during sparring. He was the truth. It's not like he's payed to talk up Bruce, and he's not a relative. He's not even one of his students.
 
1) Most street fights don't last long because they involve untrained fighters who usually end the fight with one haymaker or a quick flurry. In a street fight with no rules I agree that they usually end quickly but it also depends on the quality of the fighters. A Mixed Martial Artist who has under gone physical conditioning to fight a full MMA fight also has the conditioning to outlast most people on the street. A trained fighter is more dangerous than an untrained fighter and they have a huge advantage over someone that doesn't compete.

2) Steven Seagal at age 65, morbidly obese with zero professional fights does not have a good chance of beating any UFC fighters in a street fight with no rules. His Aikido isn't better than training at a top MMA gym and he's going to have to back up his tough talk on the street. The fact that he isn't willing to do it despite being challenged should say something.

3) Without actually seeing them fight we can't assess their ability. Bruce Lee didn't have to prove anything if he didn't want to but he also didn't do anything to deserve praise as the greatest fighter ever or justify all of these myths surrounding him. His "aura of invincibility" is based on an image manufactured by Hollywood as well as friends and family defending his reputation likely for their own interests. That's not to say he couldn't fight just that I don't believe he would beat the top fighters in MMA living today who train and compete multiple times a year against other world class fighters who have proven how good they are at fighting.

4) Like I said, MMA is not a bodybuilding contest. Cain Velasquez is known for outstanding cardio. Just because he's not ripped doesn't mean he isn't in great physical condition for fighting. The difference in size and stature between Cain Velasquez and Brock Lesnar vs. Bruce Lee and Brock Lesnar are very significant. Cain Velaquez, when he fought Brock Lesnar was 8-0 in MMA, 7 wins by KO or TKO, was a NCAA Division 1 wrestler and trains at American Kickboxing Academy, one of the top gyms in the sport. To say he is not a world class athlete or fighter is nonsense. He is. He has proven it. I didn't call him a world class striker but he's clearly above average and has knockout power. Comparing him to Bruce Lee and Steven Seagal who have no professional fight record is silly.

5) I didn't say that scratching and biting don't matter in a fight only that Bruce Lee's willingness to use dirty moves doesn't mean he can overcome the advantage that MMA fighters have in technique or experience. The MMA fighters can use all of those moves too and they are better at the striking and grappling techniques that are legal in MMA. If you take a Mixed Martial Artist and put him in a street fight with no gloves or rules he's even more dangerous as now he can fight unrestricted. Several Mixed Martial Artists have been in real fights. The more experience they have the better but their MMA training has better prepared them for a fight than someone who doesn't compete at that level and some of them train in self-defense techniques that prepare them for the unpredictability of a street fight.

Martial Artists who do have a lot of street fighting experience do stand a better chance of winning against a UFC fighter. I'm not saying they have literally zero chance only that the Mixed Martial Artist has a better chance. Steven Seagal in his prime and in better shape would still lose in my opinion. I think it is ridiculous to think he could beat modern professional fighters today and he's still alive to prove it unlike Bruce Lee.
1.) Most street fights don't last long because you don't get to warm up and stand across from each other in the ring. You are usually face to face in a confined space so quickness and power take precedent over endurance, cardio and technique. Have you ever been in a street fight?
2.) Steven Seagal at 65 in a confined space, face to face with ANY UFC fighter could legitimately knock them out. He may, also, get his ass kicked but he has a strikers chance, even at his age. Put him in the ring or an octagon and he gets killed. I don't know what you don't understand about this. The guy is huge and really quick for his age (refer to the video) and imagine if he is able to get a shot off, he could do some damage. To be that big and to move that fast, just making contact could do some serious damage but remember, he is 65 so don't expect him to jump into a ring any time soon.
3.) Bruce Lee was doing things in his time that no one had ever seen. If he were alive today, who knows what he could have accomplished. Your opinion, that MMA guys could all beat him, is just that... an opinion that we could never verify.
4.) If Cain Velasquez went on a diet, with his frame, he could easily be 180. He has a lot of extra weight on him that is not muscle or necessary weight but he uses it well. As for the "world class" anything, did you see how he beat Lesnar? Show me what "technique" he used (really, go back and watch the fight)? I understand the training prepares you for anything but you understand where I'm coming from. So was it that he was a chubby 230 that helped him win the fight or do you think he could have done it at 180? Then, let's say he could have done it at 180, guys like you would have looked at the two before the fight and you would have sworn that there was no way Cain could win that fight.
5.) What you are failing to acknowledge is that a "streetfight" carries with it a certain fear factor and a lot of MMA athletes aren't prepared or willing to participate in something like that. Here's how I can tell the difference between an MMA fighter who could fight in the streets and one who couldn't: the guy that gets kicked or grazed in the cup and falls immediately begging the ref for a timeout could, probably, not handle a streetfight. You see the guys that get kicked low or poked in the eye and immediately keep moving forward? Those guys could probably handle themselves in the street.

Not saying MMA doesn't better prepare you for competition but it doesn't always prepare you for a fight.
 
Yep, look up what Jim Kelly said about Bruce in the gym, and during sparring. He was the truth. It's not like he's payed to talk up Bruce, and he's not a relative. He's not even one of his students.

You have many people who can testify what they saw. He was legitimate.

It's still actors giving each other credits on their mutual legitimacy. Even Kelly has a pretty vague record, going from being promoted as a multiple time world karate champion to having won once the Long Beach International Karate Championships. Once again, this isn't against Bruce Lee in particular, but everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
Yep, look up what Jim Kelly said about Bruce in the gym, and during sparring. He was the truth. It's not like he's payed to talk up Bruce, and he's not a relative. He's not even one of his students.

Chuck Norris laughed about the idea that Bruce would heat him.

People will say flattering things about a kiddie who did everything he could to get ripped and paid in a big way when they are gone.
 
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