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No one...
Anyone else lol when someone mentions Bruce Lee in a serious MMA-context?
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Cain Velasquez can test himself to show his body fat percentage. But we can make a reasonable estimate based on eyesight.
Now clearly his body shape is going to look different depending on the time period and how fit he is at the time but going by this picture I think 12-15% body fat is a reasonable estimate. 20% is a bit high and 25% is definitely too high. Cain doesn't have a defined six pack but he doesn't have a gut either. As for his technique well I'm glad you acknowledge that he displayed technique because that is just an observable fact. It doesn't have to be beautiful or graceful. He got the job done and he didn't do it with wild brawling and haymakers. He used proper technique and strategy mostly with well executed boxing and wrestling techniques. I think that the reason he gets injured so much is that he's going too hard in sparring. His sparring sessions with Daniel Cormier are known to be wars. Some fighters over train when they work out and treat sparring like real fights to the point where they often hurt themselves. This has been talked about a lot on Sherdog and acknowledged by trainers, fighters and promoters.
Mental toughness can be trained and while it does depend on the person and DNA influences personality some people are strong minded because of how they were raised, their life experiences, learning to develop willpower and when they train to fight having good coaches who build their confidence and show them what it means to be mentally strong. So environment matters too. What I'm saying about the dirty tactics you are talking about is that anyone can use them. Just because you see Bruce Lee practicing eye gouges and groin kicks on camera like he did in the Green Hornet Screen Test doesn't mean that he has a tactical advantage over a professional fighter who trains for a combat sport like MMA. Anyone can learn to do that. That might work for Bruce Lee or Steven Seagal but the Mixed Martial Artists they are potentially fighting can do it too. So there's no real advantage there.
Also keep in mind that fighters sometimes get challenged when they are out in public or get in to street fights. For example Alistair Overeem got in a fight with 5 bouncers at a club who were attacking his brother and ended up with a serious hand injury but I hear that he and Valentijn kicked their asses. Nick Diaz got jumped by four guys at a nightclub and says they got the worst of it. Roger Huerta who fought at Lightweight in the UFC beat up a guy in a street fight who punched a girl in the face who happened to have played Linebacker in college and weighed around 230 pounds. Several MMA fighters including Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Lee Murray and Tony Fryklund got in to a wild brawl in London. Some of these fighters got involved in fighting because they were naturally violent and loved fighting or got bullied as kids. Cung Le and Georges St. Pierre have talked about how they got involved with Martial Arts because of getting in fights in school and transitioned to MMA. Even Brock Lesnar says he liked to fight when he was younger. Conor McGregor has told stories about being involved in street fighting as a kid. Many guys have stories. Some of them fought on the street or in school in their youth. Some of them still get in fights to this day. Bruce Lee and Steven Seagal are not the only Martial Artists or even Hollywood actors who have a reputation for being real life tough guys.
Like I said before I know very well that there are many variables in a street fight. What happens in the ring or octagon in a controlled setting with rules is not the same as what can potentially happen in a real fight with no rules. For example Mike Tyson was known for being a brutal street fighter as a kid. He actually fought one of his opponents on the street. Mike Tyson had a Boxing match with Mitch Green that went the distance. One day they got in to an argument on the street and Tyson knocked him out, breaking his hand in the process. If you look at Mitch Green's eye it looks like he got hurt pretty badly. He lasted 10 Rounds with Tyson in a Boxing match and got knocked out cold with a punch that shut his eye and broke Mike's hand on the street.
So believe me I know the difference between fighting in a sport with rules and fighting on the street with no rules and all of the different variables you can encounter. I'm not saying Bruce Lee and Martial Artists who train for self-defense aren't tough. I'm not saying they can't fight. I'm not even saying it is impossible for them to win on the street. I am simply saying that their fighting skills are not at the level of world class Mixed Martial Artists and in a real fight it is more reasonable to favor the Mixed Martial Artists who train in a variety of effective techniques, who have benefited from modern fitness training, spar full-contact with other professional fighters and compete at a high level multiple times a year. They're just very high caliber fighters and they are even more dangerous on the street with no restrictions AND some of them DO have a street fighting mentality and experience. Not all of them but many do. So do Boxers. So do Kickboxers. If you don't train the last person you want to encounter in a street fight is someone who trains and competes for a living who is in peak physical condition, is used to getting hit, is used to hurting guys and isn't afraid to take you out. The more techniques they know the better.
MMA is not the most violent profession in the world. Police officers and soldiers put their lives on the line all the time and many have killed people, usually with weapons, but sometimes they fight hand-to-hand. There are Martial Artists who find work as security guards, body guards and bouncers who like to intimidate people and get in fights. There are Martial Artists who train just because they want the reputation as a tough guy and go looking for trouble who might be involved in brawls in public places (bars, clubs etc.), might be involved in organized street fighting for money and pride or even organized crime where they get their hands dirty doing some unlawful stuff where learning how to fight helps them get done what they want to do. There are some dangerous people out there. MMA isn't the end all and be all of fighting. I know that. But MMA fighters are very high caliber fighters whose skills reach a high level after years of training and competing with other top fighters.
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I'm not saying he would beat guys in MMA now. But back in his day he was the shit. #RIP
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Cain Velasquez can test himself to show his body fat percentage. But we can make a reasonable estimate based on eyesight.
Now clearly his body shape is going to look different depending on the time period and how fit he is at the time but going by this picture I think 12-15% body fat is a reasonable estimate. 20% is a bit high and 25% is definitely too high. Cain doesn't have a defined six pack but he doesn't have a gut either. As for his technique well I'm glad you acknowledge that he displayed technique because that is just an observable fact. It doesn't have to be beautiful or graceful. He got the job done and he didn't do it with wild brawling and haymakers. He used proper technique and strategy mostly with well executed boxing and wrestling techniques. I think that the reason he gets injured so much is that he's going too hard in sparring. His sparring sessions with Daniel Cormier are known to be wars. Some fighters over train when they work out and treat sparring like real fights to the point where they often hurt themselves. This has been talked about a lot on Sherdog and acknowledged by trainers, fighters and promoters.
Mental toughness can be trained and while it does depend on the person and DNA influences personality some people are strong minded because of how they were raised, their life experiences, learning to develop willpower and when they train to fight having good coaches who build their confidence and show them what it means to be mentally strong. So environment matters too. What I'm saying about the dirty tactics you are talking about is that anyone can use them. Just because you see Bruce Lee practicing eye gouges and groin kicks on camera like he did in the Green Hornet Screen Test doesn't mean that he has a tactical advantage over a professional fighter who trains for a combat sport like MMA. Anyone can learn to do that. That might work for Bruce Lee or Steven Seagal but the Mixed Martial Artists they are potentially fighting can do it too. So there's no real advantage there.
Also keep in mind that fighters sometimes get challenged when they are out in public or get in to street fights. For example Alistair Overeem got in a fight with 5 bouncers at a club who were attacking his brother and ended up with a serious hand injury but I hear that he and Valentijn kicked their asses. Nick Diaz got jumped by four guys at a nightclub and says they got the worst of it. Roger Huerta who fought at Lightweight in the UFC beat up a guy in a street fight who punched a girl in the face who happened to have played Linebacker in college and weighed around 230 pounds. Several MMA fighters including Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Lee Murray and Tony Fryklund got in to a wild brawl in London. Some of these fighters got involved in fighting because they were naturally violent and loved fighting or got bullied as kids. Cung Le and Georges St. Pierre have talked about how they got involved with Martial Arts because of getting in fights in school and transitioned to MMA. Even Brock Lesnar says he liked to fight when he was younger. Conor McGregor has told stories about being involved in street fighting as a kid. Many guys have stories. Some of them fought on the street or in school in their youth. Some of them still get in fights to this day. Bruce Lee and Steven Seagal are not the only Martial Artists or even Hollywood actors who have a reputation for being real life tough guys.
Like I said before I know very well that there are many variables in a street fight. What happens in the ring or octagon in a controlled setting with rules is not the same as what can potentially happen in a real fight with no rules. For example Mike Tyson was known for being a brutal street fighter as a kid. He actually fought one of his opponents on the street. Mike Tyson had a Boxing match with Mitch Green that went the distance. One day they got in to an argument on the street and Tyson knocked him out, breaking his hand in the process. If you look at Mitch Green's eye it looks like he got hurt pretty badly. He lasted 10 Rounds with Tyson in a Boxing match and got knocked out cold with a punch that shut his eye and broke Mike's hand on the street.
So believe me I know the difference between fighting in a sport with rules and fighting on the street with no rules and all of the different variables you can encounter. I'm not saying Bruce Lee and Martial Artists who train for self-defense aren't tough. I'm not saying they can't fight. I'm not even saying it is impossible for them to win on the street. I am simply saying that their fighting skills are not at the level of world class Mixed Martial Artists and in a real fight it is more reasonable to favor the Mixed Martial Artists who train in a variety of effective techniques, who have benefited from modern fitness training, spar full-contact with other professional fighters and compete at a high level multiple times a year. They're just very high caliber fighters and they are even more dangerous on the street with no restrictions AND some of them DO have a street fighting mentality and experience. Not all of them but many do. So do Boxers. So do Kickboxers. If you don't train the last person you want to encounter in a street fight is someone who trains and competes for a living who is in peak physical condition, is used to getting hit, is used to hurting guys and isn't afraid to take you out. The more techniques they know the better.
MMA is not the most violent profession in the world. Police officers and soldiers put their lives on the line all the time and many have killed people, usually with weapons, but sometimes they fight hand-to-hand. There are Martial Artists who find work as security guards, body guards and bouncers who like to intimidate people and get in fights. There are Martial Artists who train just because they want the reputation as a tough guy and go looking for trouble who might be involved in brawls in public places (bars, clubs etc.), might be involved in organized street fighting for money and pride or even organized crime where they get their hands dirty doing some unlawful stuff where learning how to fight helps them get done what they want to do. There are some dangerous people out there. MMA isn't the end all and be all of fighting. I know that. But MMA fighters are very high caliber fighters whose skills reach a high level after years of training and competing with other top fighters.
Based on the pictures you show and the "touched up" Cain photo, I would say he falls around the 20% - 25% mark. So if he cut to 8%, where does that put him, 190-210? Again, not nearly the size of a Brock Lesnar but his "technique" and determination got him the win. If you lined the two up, side by side, before a fight, not knowing who either of them were, most guys would have picked Brock in a heartbeat. My point being, Bruce Lee or Seagal might not get your nod before a fight but you might be surprised. They, both, were well trained and very efficient in striking and fighting so anything could happen and to dismiss them because of today's current "greased speedo" guys is a disservice to what they represent. I agree, because of the wealth of information we have, today, that more people have access to different cultures, disciplines and training than ever before but if you could "timewarp" Bruce Lee forward, not only would you have an amazing combatant from the past, but you would have a more well prepared combatant as well. Where as, if you took some of the guys from today to back then without today's training, maybe they get slaughtered. A lot of "what ifs." Let's just pay our respects, give thanks and move forward.
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I think we are agreeing on this. Wrestlers do well with the "modern rules" but in a "just let 'em fight until someone wins" scenario, the Jiu Jitsu guy wins out, easily.
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Cain Velasquez can test himself to show his body fat percentage. But we can make a reasonable estimate based on eyesight.
Now clearly his body shape is going to look different depending on the time period and how fit he is at the time but going by this picture I think 12-15% body fat is a reasonable estimate. 20% is a bit high and 25% is definitely too high. Cain doesn't have a defined six pack but he doesn't have a gut either. As for his technique well I'm glad you acknowledge that he displayed technique because that is just an observable fact. It doesn't have to be beautiful or graceful. He got the job done and he didn't do it with wild brawling and haymakers. He used proper technique and strategy mostly with well executed boxing and wrestling techniques. I think that the reason he gets injured so much is that he's going too hard in sparring. His sparring sessions with Daniel Cormier are known to be wars. Some fighters over train when they work out and treat sparring like real fights to the point where they often hurt themselves. This has been talked about a lot on Sherdog and acknowledged by trainers, fighters and promoters.
Mental toughness can be trained and while it does depend on the person and DNA influences personality some people are strong minded because of how they were raised, their life experiences, learning to develop willpower and when they train to fight having good coaches who build their confidence and show them what it means to be mentally strong. So environment matters too. What I'm saying about the dirty tactics you are talking about is that anyone can use them. Just because you see Bruce Lee practicing eye gouges and groin kicks on camera like he did in the Green Hornet Screen Test doesn't mean that he has a tactical advantage over a professional fighter who trains for a combat sport like MMA. Anyone can learn to do that. That might work for Bruce Lee or Steven Seagal but the Mixed Martial Artists they are potentially fighting can do it too. So there's no real advantage there.
Also keep in mind that fighters sometimes get challenged when they are out in public or get in to street fights. For example Alistair Overeem got in a fight with 5 bouncers at a club who were attacking his brother and ended up with a serious hand injury but I hear that he and Valentijn kicked their asses. Nick Diaz got jumped by four guys at a nightclub and says they got the worst of it. Roger Huerta who fought at Lightweight in the UFC beat up a guy in a street fight who punched a girl in the face who happened to have played Linebacker in college and weighed around 230 pounds. Several MMA fighters including Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Lee Murray and Tony Fryklund got in to a wild brawl in London. Some of these fighters got involved in fighting because they were naturally violent and loved fighting or got bullied as kids. Cung Le and Georges St. Pierre have talked about how they got involved with Martial Arts because of getting in fights in school and transitioned to MMA. Even Brock Lesnar says he liked to fight when he was younger. Conor McGregor has told stories about being involved in street fighting as a kid. Many guys have stories. Some of them fought on the street or in school in their youth. Some of them still get in fights to this day. Bruce Lee and Steven Seagal are not the only Martial Artists or even Hollywood actors who have a reputation for being real life tough guys.
Like I said before I know very well that there are many variables in a street fight. What happens in the ring or octagon in a controlled setting with rules is not the same as what can potentially happen in a real fight with no rules. For example Mike Tyson was known for being a brutal street fighter as a kid. He actually fought one of his opponents on the street. Mike Tyson had a Boxing match with Mitch Green that went the distance. One day they got in to an argument on the street and Tyson knocked him out, breaking his hand in the process. If you look at Mitch Green's eye it looks like he got hurt pretty badly. He lasted 10 Rounds with Tyson in a Boxing match and got knocked out cold with a punch that shut his eye and broke Mike's hand on the street.
So believe me I know the difference between fighting in a sport with rules and fighting on the street with no rules and all of the different variables you can encounter. I'm not saying Bruce Lee and Martial Artists who train for self-defense aren't tough. I'm not saying they can't fight. I'm not even saying it is impossible for them to win on the street. I am simply saying that their fighting skills are not at the level of world class Mixed Martial Artists and in a real fight it is more reasonable to favor the Mixed Martial Artists who train in a variety of effective techniques, who have benefited from modern fitness training, spar full-contact with other professional fighters and compete at a high level multiple times a year. They're just very high caliber fighters and they are even more dangerous on the street with no restrictions AND some of them DO have a street fighting mentality and experience. Not all of them but many do. So do Boxers. So do Kickboxers. If you don't train the last person you want to encounter in a street fight is someone who trains and competes for a living who is in peak physical condition, is used to getting hit, is used to hurting guys and isn't afraid to take you out. The more techniques they know the better.
MMA is not the most violent profession in the world. Police officers and soldiers put their lives on the line all the time and many have killed people, usually with weapons, but sometimes they fight hand-to-hand. There are Martial Artists who find work as security guards, body guards and bouncers who like to intimidate people and get in fights. There are Martial Artists who train just because they want the reputation as a tough guy and go looking for trouble who might be involved in brawls in public places (bars, clubs etc.), might be involved in organized street fighting for money and pride or even organized crime where they get their hands dirty doing some unlawful stuff where learning how to fight helps them get done what they want to do. There are some dangerous people out there. MMA isn't the end all and be all of fighting. I know that. But MMA fighters are very high caliber fighters whose skills reach a high level after years of training and competing with other top fighters.
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These are better pictures:
I still say that Cain Velasquez had no more than 15% body fat when he fought Lesnar. But either way that doesn't matter. Even with the excess fat Cain Velasquez is in great cardio condition and what really matters are his skills. Some people thought the actual Cain Velasquez that showed up was no match for Lesnar. They said Lesnar was too big, too strong and had a better wrestling pedigree so he would win. I for one predicted that Cain would win and I even made a thread about it prior to the fight (which seems to missing from Sherdog now) which I believe I titled:
"Mr. Velasquez is going to whoop Brock Lesnar's ass!"
I argued that Cain has more MMA experience. His wrestling is better adapted to MMA. He's well-rounded and he can exploit Lesnar's tendency to panic and turtle up when he gets hit. All of my predictions came true. I mean no disrespect to Bruce Lee but I do feel you are being disrespectful to Cain Velasquez. What does good technique look like to you? You don't have to be flashy or fight in an aesthetically appealing way to be an effective and technical fighter. Cain displayed good technique especially with his Boxing and Wrestling. His skills are clearly on the level of other world class fighters and he's known for being technical and well-rounded. He doesn't have to look pretty doing it but he's clearly not a sloppy brawler who gets by on raw athleticism and aggression. He's no Anderson Silva when it comes to technical striking but he's also not Kimbo Slice. Cain displays a wide variety of effective techniques and that is how he beat Lesnar.
As far as "time warp" discussion goes my views, as I said, are a lot closer to Bas Rutten's when it comes to Bruce Lee in MMA or in a street fight vs. a professional Mixed Martial Artist. Take him as he was prior to his death with the skills, knowledge and abilities he possessed back then and put him in the Octagon with any of the men ranked in the Top 10 of any weight class in the UFC and I say he loses. I don't believe his grappling was good enough to prepare him for the ground fighting he'd experience in MMA nor his striking sharp enough to compete with fighters who spar full-contact with quality striking coaches and partners as well as compete in a full-contact combat sport like MMA. Put him on the street with the same fighters in an open area with no rules and I believe he still loses. But take Bruce Lee from the past, bring him to the present and introduce him to the modern world with all of the history and current events he missed out on because of his death and have him train for a decent amount of time at a quality MMA gym (say for 3-4 years and get 10-15 fights against progressively better competition) and THEN let him fight in the Octagon against the Top 10 in his weight class or on the street if he prefers no rules and I think he becomes a much better fighter and possibly champion.
So you have two scenarios:
A) Bring Bruce Lee that existed to the present and have him fight modern fighters immediately.
B) Bring the Bruce Lee that existed to the present and have him fight modern fighters with decent preparation and modern training.
Scenario A is what most people are talking about in these discussions. Scenario B is what I have proposed which is similar to what Bas Rutten suggested (except I think he needs more than a years training and some actual fights). Scenario B is in my opinion more reasonable however with Scenario B we are talking about Bruce Lee's potential to get better from modern training and competing which is acknowledging the important of MMA training while also accepting that Bruce Lee as he was when he was actually alive wasn't good enough to beat professional fighters today. I don't feel that is disrespectful to Bruce Lee but just acknowledging how far Martial Arts training has come. Even Bas Rutten said Bruce Lee was a genius when it came to fighting and that he would catch on quickly, add to what he already knew and adapt to the new knowledge and caliber of fighter that exists today. I also agree with Jim Kelly that Bruce Lee could adapt to the rules of MMA and make his fighting style work for him. How far he could get is speculation but that's more interesting to me than the Bruce Lee who focused on training Martial Arts for self-defense, teaching and acting who wasn't interested in competition and hadn't been exposed to the MMA revolution. These are entirely different scenarios but Scenario B compliments Bruce Lee while not disrespecting the talent of modern fighters.
I don't see the point of sending modern fighters back in time to Bruce Lee's era and stripping them of the skills they possess today. How is that interesting? The whole point of comparing Bruce Lee to the modern era is to discuss what he was capable of doing against fighters today. We know that fighters today have benefited from modern training. If they went back in time with no skills or were reborn in Bruce Lee's era and had to train with whoever they could to develop a different set of skills then we are talking about an entirely different type of fighter. There's no point. I'm not saying that any fighter today has more potential necessarily than Bruce Lee as a fighter as if they were more special or had greater genetic potential (although if you consider that the best natural athletes tend to reach the top of their sport some fighters today probably due have greater potential for fighting ability than Bruce Lee). All I am saying is that because of advances in knowledge of fighting and training the fighters today are better than the fighters of the 1960s and 1970s including Bruce Lee. Basically being born in that era limited his potential compared to the current era. But he was a pioneer who contributed tremendously to the popularity of Martial Arts worldwide so he deserves respect for that.
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My point on "chubby" Cain is not to disrespect him because I do like him as a fighter and as a fighter personality. He is good for the sport and seems like a genuinely good guy. It is to point out that physical size and strength are not the "be all and end all" of a fight. So if Cain laid off of the enchiladas and cheeseburgers he might be able to walk around at 205 but it doesn't matter. He proved that size does not matter and that is my point with Bruce Lee. I don't think he would do well in "competition" but in a street fight, I think, he cleans up. However, your point is well taken with the modern era vs the "good ol' days" because of training and accessibility of information. That encompasses all sports, not just MMA. If the fighters of today fought then with the training that was available then, Bruce Lee would, in my opinion, stand out among the rest. If Bruce Lee were alive today and had what is available to all fighters, I still believe, he would stand out among all of the rest. There is a certain "it" factor that certain fighters have and he was one of them. Fedor is another guy, who despite size difference (talk about body fat, he could probably cut to 185) was able to use his skill to defeat much bigger and stronger opponents. In his prime, we all saw what he could do and size had nothing to do with it. He had the "it" factor and that transcends all eras. BJ Penn is another example of that "it" factor and proving that size didn't matter if you had superior skills.These are better pictures:
I still say that Cain Velasquez had no more than 15% body fat when he fought Lesnar. But either way that doesn't matter. Even with the excess fat Cain Velasquez is in great cardio condition and what really matters are his skills. Some people thought the actual Cain Velasquez that showed up was no match for Lesnar. They said Lesnar was too big, too strong and had a better wrestling pedigree so he would win. I for one predicted that Cain would win and I even made a thread about it prior to the fight (which seems to missing from Sherdog now) which I believe I titled:
"Mr. Velasquez is going to whoop Brock Lesnar's ass!"
I argued that Cain has more MMA experience. His wrestling is better adapted to MMA. He's well-rounded and he can exploit Lesnar's tendency to panic and turtle up when he gets hit. All of my predictions came true. I mean no disrespect to Bruce Lee but I do feel you are being disrespectful to Cain Velasquez. What does good technique look like to you? You don't have to be flashy or fight in an aesthetically appealing way to be an effective and technical fighter. Cain displayed good technique especially with his Boxing and Wrestling. His skills are clearly on the level of other world class fighters and he's known for being technical and well-rounded. He doesn't have to look pretty doing it but he's clearly not a sloppy brawler who gets by on raw athleticism and aggression. He's no Anderson Silva when it comes to technical striking but he's also not Kimbo Slice. Cain displays a wide variety of effective techniques and that is how he beat Lesnar.
As far as "time warp" discussion goes my views, as I said, are a lot closer to Bas Rutten's when it comes to Bruce Lee in MMA or in a street fight vs. a professional Mixed Martial Artist. Take him as he was prior to his death with the skills, knowledge and abilities he possessed back then and put him in the Octagon with any of the men ranked in the Top 10 of any weight class in the UFC and I say he loses. I don't believe his grappling was good enough to prepare him for the ground fighting he'd experience in MMA nor his striking sharp enough to compete with fighters who spar full-contact with quality striking coaches and partners as well as compete in a full-contact combat sport like MMA. Put him on the street with the same fighters in an open area with no rules and I believe he still loses. But take Bruce Lee from the past, bring him to the present and introduce him to the modern world with all of the history and current events he missed out on because of his death and have him train for a decent amount of time at a quality MMA gym (say for 3-4 years and get 10-15 fights against progressively better competition) and THEN let him fight in the Octagon against the Top 10 in his weight class or on the street if he prefers no rules and I think he becomes a much better fighter and possibly champion.
So you have two scenarios:
A) Bring Bruce Lee that existed to the present and have him fight modern fighters immediately.
B) Bring the Bruce Lee that existed to the present and have him fight modern fighters with decent preparation and modern training.
Scenario A is what most people are talking about in these discussions. Scenario B is what I have proposed which is similar to what Bas Rutten suggested (except I think he needs more than a years training and some actual fights). Scenario B is in my opinion more reasonable however with Scenario B we are talking about Bruce Lee's potential to get better from modern training and competing which is acknowledging the important of MMA training while also accepting that Bruce Lee as he was when he was actually alive wasn't good enough to beat professional fighters today. I don't feel that is disrespectful to Bruce Lee but just acknowledging how far Martial Arts training has come. Even Bas Rutten said Bruce Lee was a genius when it came to fighting and that he would catch on quickly, add to what he already knew and adapt to the new knowledge and caliber of fighter that exists today. I also agree with Jim Kelly that Bruce Lee could adapt to the rules of MMA and make his fighting style work for him. How far he could get is speculation but that's more interesting to me than the Bruce Lee who focused on training Martial Arts for self-defense, teaching and acting who wasn't interested in competition and hadn't been exposed to the MMA revolution. These are entirely different scenarios but Scenario B compliments Bruce Lee while not disrespecting the talent of modern fighters.
I don't see the point of sending modern fighters back in time to Bruce Lee's era and stripping them of the skills they possess today. How is that interesting? The whole point of comparing Bruce Lee to the modern era is to discuss what he was capable of doing against fighters today. We know that fighters today have benefited from modern training. If they went back in time with no skills or were reborn in Bruce Lee's era and had to train with whoever they could to develop a different set of skills then we are talking about an entirely different type of fighter. There's no point. I'm not saying that any fighter today has more potential necessarily than Bruce Lee as a fighter as if they were more special or had greater genetic potential (although if you consider that the best natural athletes tend to reach the top of their sport some fighters today probably due have greater potential for fighting ability than Bruce Lee). All I am saying is that because of advances in knowledge of fighting and training the fighters today are better than the fighters of the 1960s and 1970s including Bruce Lee. Basically being born in that era limited his potential compared to the current era. But he was a pioneer who contributed tremendously to the popularity of Martial Arts worldwide so he deserves respect for that.
Bruce Lee deserves respect as a founding father of MMA and, aside from us Shertards, I don't think real fighters will ever even debate this.
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I would argue that size does matter but I agree that it is not the end all and be all. They have weight classes for a reason. I don't believe that Demetrious Johnson could beat Stipe Miocic. Bruce Lee was 5'7" and weighed about 135 pounds at the weight he felt was most optimal for him. If he competed in MMA he could bulk up if he wanted to but he might actually be better suited as a Flyweight. On the street I think the Mixed Martial Artists still have the advantage given their fighting experience. They don't have to follow the rules of MMA. I think that Bruce Lee was ahead of his time but I do believe that some of the Martial Artists even in his own era could beat him, especially the bigger ones. Not everyone who trained with Bruce Lee thought of him as the best in the world like Jim Kelly and James Demile seemed to. Chuck Norris said that he didn't know who would win between them and made the point that he was a professional fighter. By that I think he meant that he didn't feel he had anything to prove.
Joe Lewis said he didn't think Bruce Lee would do well in competition and that he had a talent for teaching more so than fighting.
http://www.cityonfire.com/unknown/interviews/lewis/
Temple of the Unknown: Hello Joe,Can you tell us what were Bruce Lee's physical assets and liabilities?
Joe Lewis: Physical assets-He had gifted quickness.There's a differnce between quickness and fastness.He had very low fat body composition.He had thick shoulders, quick hands,and slim strong legs.And it appeared he had a good torso,that being the key to explosiveness in any athlete.He was coordinated.Moved very well on his feet, in particular his footwork.
* His liabilities-He had a long skinny neck, which is an indication a person can't take a punch,or a choke hold.His rib cage was very flat,which means a good liver shot on the right side of the body,or a good heart shot on the left side wouldn't be alot of padding to guard against a contussion or damage to one of these arteries.If you look at his back between his shoulder blades,there's not alot of thickness in the lower part of the trapezious muscles.This is an indication that he possibly couldn't hit as hard as people elude to.His bones were very thin.Typically people with small bones don't hit hard-a Sugar Ray Leonard physical type.These people tend to knock people out with a 2-3 punch combination,as opposed to a single strike knock out,which perhaps a Rocky Marciano or a Jack Dempsey would posses. BL had real small ankles as well as small joints in the knees.I would imagine him to have some joint problems later in his life,especially if he did alot of kicking on the heavy bag,or the round kicks against the banana bag to develop his shin bones.
Now these are opinions and there are some that are more favorable and some that are less. I think that if Bruce Lee was alive today and able to train for MMA he could do really well. I don't know how well. That would be up to him and I do believe that he could adapt to the rules of MMA just like the other fighters. On the street in a fight with no rules he could incorporate MMA training in to Jeet Kune Do and be an even more dangerous fighter. How good was he? We don't really know because there's no real fight footage of him. We just have stories, demonstrations, a little bit of training, movie fight scenes and some sparring wearing pads and headgear. That's not enough to go by though when determining how good he really was. I believe he was above average by the standards of the day. Not the best. In fact when it comes to street fighting I don't believe there is such as thing as anyone can be beaten and being tough on the street isn't the same as being the most accomplished in your sport. Anyone can have an off day or be bested including Bruce Lee.
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In a "just let em fight scenario" Wrestlers slams become better on solid floor and Seven could have dumped him on his head at will with that 100lbs on him.
I love to cut out all "position" scoring in grappling myself it favors wrestlers for sure and especially with a cage wall where pinning them against that is chalking up points.
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Close but there were no rules preventing Severn from doing this. that was as close to a straight up fight as it gets.
If Severn could have slammed him, he would have. I agree, however, the point fighting rules favor wrestlers.
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mma stands for mixed martial arts, lee was a pioneer of mixing martial arts. You're stupid
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MMA is gender segregated so it was Joanna who put out her eye.
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Bruce Lee had the foresight to bring in BJJ black belts to train with back in the 1970's. The dude was many years ahead of his time.
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How many BJJ black belts were there in Hollywood/LA in the 1970's?
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Fewer than there is now...
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Who were they?
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If you think Cain is 20% or better body fat youre a complete fucking moron. period.
