Anyone else lol when someone mentions Bruce Lee in a serious MMA-context?

[TrueFightFan]

Hey clown/karate movie nerd...you nor anybody else has ever seen Bruce Lee in a real mma style fight...points karate means nothing. Movies man nothing. Now go watch Return of the Dragon cheeto fingers

What are you, 13??? If it isn't on Youtube, then it didn't happen, right? Moron.

 

[CombatScience]

What are you, 13??? If it isn't on Youtube, then it didn't happen, right? Moron.

Cheeto stains...stop trying to debate wheather or not an actor who YOU'VE never seen fight would be good in MMA.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Cheeto stains...stop trying to debate wheather or not an actor who YOU'VE never seen fight would be good in MMA.

Moron, you missed the argument but I see you've got you Weinstein avatar out, so you've probably missed a lot of things. The debate that I was a part of was on how well Lee would do in a real fight. Not MMA.

 

[Fyreborn]

You are misusing the word "striking" for "boxing". That is the first fatal flaw in your argument.

Now, I've got you by 8 years but at 38, you should know better. There were no MMA tournaments or matches back then that weren't watered down with rules. Even the matches that Chuck Norris took part in were all about "point fighting" and not real fighting. So, what was available in public or in private for actual fighting was not advertised freely. Nor would there be any photo, video or general evidence of these things existing. Bruce Lee challenged everyone that disagreed with his style and wished to prove that their style was superior. He was LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.

Now, you say you are not overemphasizing size but you are basically saying that one of Lee's punches or kicks would do no damage, whatsoever, to someone like Mike Tyson. Would Tyson know how to protect himself from leg kicks or strikes to the arms? Also, that you say Couture would out strike Lee, is absolutely ridiculous. I don't think that Machida is anywhere near as quick as Lee was and you saw a front kick land cleanly on Couture. You will say that Machida is much bigger than Lee but then I will ask you, how many kicks from Lee would it take to topple Couture if one of his kicks were not as strong as Machida?

You are, obviously, a fan of the hype and awe that surrounds the fighters from YOUR era.

Maybe this will solve everything (more for me than for you).... Jordan or LeBron?

Boxing is a form of striking. The most important part of striking is punching.

What is Lee's vale tudo track record? He had none. He wasn't a Helio Gracie or something. And even if he had a vale tudo record, guys from back then wouldn't compete with modern guys. But Lee would likely have gotten wrecked in vale tudo by BJJ guys from his own day.

Lee is unlikely to do much to Tyson with punches. Kicks would be his best bet. But Tyson is much bigger, longer reach, and could probably counter with punches at Lee's kicking range. I also don't think he'd have much trouble closing distance.

Lee needs TDs to avoid getting mauled, and we have no evidence he had decent TDs (though it's not impossible). But you're not arguing Lee could conceivably win if his grappling edge was big enough, you're saying he could actually strike with Tyson, which is insane.

Machida is not only much bigger than Lee, but much more skilled. The crazy fucking thing is that you aren't even saying it's *possible* that Lee had elite striking that could compare to modern top fighters - you are assuming he actually did. When it's ridiculously unlikely that this is the case.

It isn't just about era. HW boxers from the 70's were better than now. Overall fighters though weren't. People then wouldn't do well in NHB against guys today, as they weren't training well for that. The training didn't exist. Fighting wasn't a developed sport at all.

Jordan had the better career. Lebron's isn't over, but I doubt he'll surpass Jordan.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Boxing is a form of striking. The most important part of striking is punching.

What is Lee's vale tudo track record? He had none. He wasn't a Helio Gracie or something. And even if he had a vale tudo record, guys from back then wouldn't compete with modern guys. But Lee would likely have gotten wrecked in vale tudo by BJJ guys from his own day.

Lee is unlikely to do much to Tyson with punches. Kicks would be his best bet. But Tyson is much bigger, longer reach, and could probably counter with punches at Lee's kicking range. I also don't think he'd have much trouble closing distance.

Lee needs TDs to avoid getting mauled, and we have no evidence he had decent TDs (though it's not impossible). But you're not arguing Lee could conceivably win if his grappling edge was big enough, you're saying he could actually strike with Tyson, which is insane.

Machida is not only much bigger than Lee, but much more skilled. The crazy fucking thing is that you aren't even saying it's *possible* that Lee had elite striking that could compare to modern top fighters - you are assuming he actually did. When it's ridiculously unlikely that this is the case.

It isn't just about era. HW boxers from the 70's were better than now. Overall fighters though weren't. People then wouldn't do well in NHB against guys today, as they weren't training well for that. The training didn't exist. Fighting wasn't a developed sport at all.

Jordan had the better career. Lebron's isn't over, but I doubt he'll surpass Jordan.

I realize that most of this is subjective but stating that punching is the most "important" aspect of fight depends on who you ask. Tyson would have a distinct reach and power advantage over Lee and, that is why, Lee's "most important" form of strinking would be his kicks. Why would he stand and bang with Tyson? I would expect him to side step a Tyson rush and attempt to rake the eyes while giving Tyson a steady diet of leg kicks until he wore him down. To not see this as a plausible strategy, exposes your bias. Are you telling me that no medium sized Asian in the world stands a chance against Tyson? You claim that i am showing no proof of Lee's fighting skills yet you are dismissing his ability without proof, yourself. EVERYONE can be beat, it just takes superb strategy and workable/adaptable skills which, coincidentally, happen to be the heart of Jeet-Kune-Do. Lee combined many different arts to handle all aspects of fighting. Karate and Kung Fu only work in a stand up fight and he knew this. I am not saying that Bruce would have been an MMA champion but i am saying that, in a street fight, he stood a better chance at victory against all opponents than you are giving him credit for.

Your Jordan / James answer has also exposed your "accomplishment based" thinking. Jordan was a better player, all around, regardless of championships which is what you were intimating in your response. There may be an MMA practitioner who is better than any fighter who has ever lived but because, according to you, he isn't on Youtube fighting hundreds of guys, he sucks. I don't know what it is that is keeping you from acknowledging the possibility (i assume major bullying by large black guys in your childhood) of fighter A beating fighter B no matter size or skill level but i hope you get those personal issues worked out. If it is not personal issues that have jaded you, well then, you are just a dense moron, sir.

 

[Fyreborn]

I realize that most of this is subjective but stating that punching is the most "important" aspect of fight depends on who you ask. Tyson would have a distinct reach and power advantage over Lee and, that is why, Lee's "most important" form of strinking would be his kicks. Why would he stand and bang with Tyson? I would expect him to side step a Tyson rush and attempt to rake the eyes while giving Tyson a steady diet of leg kicks until he wore him down. To not see this as a plausible strategy, exposes your bias. Are you telling me that no medium sized Asian in the world stands a chance against Tyson? You claim that i am showing no proof of Lee's fighting skills yet you are dismissing his ability without proof, yourself. EVERYONE can be beat, it just takes superb strategy and workable/adaptable skills which, coincidentally, happen to be the heart of Jeet-Kune-Do. Lee combined many different arts to handle all aspects of fighting. Karate and Kung Fu only work in a stand up fight and he knew this. I am not saying that Bruce would have been an MMA champion but i am saying that, in a street fight, he stood a better chance at victory against all opponents than you are giving him credit for.

Your Jordan / James answer has also exposed your "accomplishment based" thinking. Jordan was a better player, all around, regardless of championships which is what you were intimating in your response. There may be an MMA practitioner who is better than any fighter who has ever lived but because, according to you, he isn't on Youtube fighting hundreds of guys, he sucks. I don't know what it is that is keeping you from acknowledging the possibility (i assume major bullying by large black guys in your childhood) of fighter A beating fighter B no matter size or skill level but i hope you get those personal issues worked out. If it is not personal issues that have jaded you, well then, you are just a dense moron, sir.

Like it would be easy for Lee to avoid a much more skilled striker. And rake the eyes? Come on, stuff like that is hard (not impossible) to pull off in a fight.

There are medium sized Asian modern MT guys who might do OK in striking vs. Tyson. Lee was almost surely not one of those. Again...Lee had no competitive accomplishments.

I am dismissing his ability without proof...? You have a delusional view of his ability without proof.

I wasn't talking about championships with Jordan. Championships are massively overrated, as it's very teammate dependent and playoffs are incredibly random. Jordan was more valuable as a player, based on what we know - though evaluating athlete value is very difficult and complex. It's not clear at all who would have been better if they'd swap places (and possibly both would've done worse than the other did if they swapped). I'll estimate Jordan was better, but it's not like it's a fact. The question is too complex for anyone to know.

It's got nothing to do with youtube. There are many old school pro boxers not on YouTube that'd wreck Bruce Lee in all likelihood.

Major bullying by black guys? You are a weirdo bro...

"No matter skill level"...I'm talking about skill level...I have been this whole time. Lee had no proven legit skills. He had a rep any TMA guy with useless skills could acquire back then. I don't think Lee would be as ineffectual as a typical TMA guy, but still, don't compare him to modern elite pros.

Deluded people really shouldn't call others morons. I wonder if even a single other person here shares your crazy fantasy evaluation of Lee's skills. It's just not reasonable.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Like it would be easy for Lee to avoid a much more skilled striker. And rake the eyes? Come on, stuff like that is hard (not impossible) to pull off in a fight.

There are medium sized Asian modern MT guys who might do OK in striking vs. Tyson. Lee was almost surely not one of those. Again...Lee had no competitive accomplishments.

I am dismissing his ability without proof...? You have a delusional view of his ability without proof.

I wasn't talking about championships with Jordan. Championships are massively overrated, as it's very teammate dependent and playoffs are incredibly random. Jordan was more valuable as a player, based on what we know - though evaluating athlete value is very difficult and complex. It's not clear at all who would have been better if they'd swap places (and possibly both would've done worse than the other did if they swapped). I'll estimate Jordan was better, but it's not like it's a fact. The question is too complex for anyone to know.

It's got nothing to do with youtube. There are many old school pro boxers not on YouTube that'd wreck Bruce Lee in all likelihood.

Major bullying by black guys? You are a weirdo bro...

"No matter skill level"...I'm talking about skill level...I have been this whole time. Lee had no proven legit skills. He had a rep any TMA guy with useless skills could acquire back then. I don't think Lee would be as ineffectual as a typical TMA guy, but still, don't compare him to modern elite pros.

Deluded people really shouldn't call others morons. I wonder if even a single other person here shares your crazy fantasy evaluation of Lee's skills. It's just not reasonable.

Going to point-for-point you and hopefully we slay the dragon, once and for all.
Like it would be easy for Lee to avoid a much more skilled striker. And rake the eyes? Come on, stuff like that is hard (not impossible) to pull off in a fight.
Lee is MUCH smaller and quicker than Tyson so how would it be hard to pull off? Smaller fighters are quicker and faster than larger ones but we all know they don't hit as hard. No matter how "skilled" a striker Tyson is, he would still have to catch Lee, first.

There are medium sized Asian modern MT guys who might do OK in striking vs. Tyson. Lee was almost surely not one of those. Again...Lee had no competitive accomplishments.

So you are saying that NO medium sized Asian guy could BEAT Tyson in a real fight? Again, as for the competitive accomplishments, you are talking about fighting WITH rules whereas I am talking about fighting without them. Rules would most certainly doom Lee in a fight with Tyson.

I am dismissing his ability without proof...? You have a delusional view of his ability without proof.

He was fast on his feet, he could punch and kick at lighting speed (even if you aren't a fan of his, you can't dismiss how fast his strikes were). As for his power, that IS debateable, however, if you witnessed his "one inch punch" demonstration, he was able to generate incredible power in the shortest of distances so one can only imagine how much force would be generated or exerted via one of his kicks. He did not enter any competitions because that is not what he was teaching or training for. He taught and trained FIGHTING. This is one of the most crucial parts that you discount in this debate. All of his teachings and the whole premise behind Jeet-Kune-Do was to stop an enemy/attacker. None of it had to do with point fighting or winning a competition. It was for real world situations and that is why he dismissed using only one discipline and "mixed all martial arts" together.... hence MMA.

I wasn't talking about championships with Jordan. Championships are massively overrated, as it's very teammate dependent and playoffs are incredibly random. Jordan was more valuable as a player, based on what we know - though evaluating athlete value is very difficult and complex. It's not clear at all who would have been better if they'd swap places (and possibly both would've done worse than the other did if they swapped). I'll estimate Jordan was better, but it's not like it's a fact. The question is too complex for anyone to know.

When it comes to comparing two "basketball players" you suddenly become politically correct but have no problem discounting the Asian without proof. However, your "swapping" argument would demonstrate, perfectly, who is/was the better player. Lebron flops every time he is touched, all he does is complain and beg calls, he isn't a great shooter and is not as aggressive as his size/skills would dictate. He would much rather cast blame or pass the buck in big play situations. Throw him in against an '89-'90 Detroit Pistons defense and he would be laughed off of the court as a gotdammed sissy. YOU KNOW THIS. Place Jordan in today's "no touch / no breathing" on anyone or it is a foul and the guy would have 60+ point games every night. Basketball used to be a "foul me and I will still score on your ass" game. Now it has become a "touch me and I'll tell" touch-butt faag game. Jordan by a mile.

It's got nothing to do with youtube. There are many old school pro boxers not on YouTube that'd wreck Bruce Lee in all likelihood.

Again, fights with rules but I like how you use "likelihood."

Major bullying by black guys? You are a weirdo bro...

And you are a PC wimp, as I pointed out in your "touch butt" critique of Jordan vs Lebron.

"No matter skill level"...I'm talking about skill level...I have been this whole time. Lee had no proven legit skills. He had a rep any TMA guy with useless skills could acquire back then. I don't think Lee would be as ineffectual as a typical TMA guy, but still, don't compare him to modern elite pros.

Competition vs Real World fighting. There are probably a lot of untrained fighters who would wipe the floor up with elite pros in a real world situation. You somehow have this concept of fighting as if it is all "in a box, packaged and ribboned." Fighting is not this way. MMA competition is but a real fight, in the streets, is not.

Deluded people really shouldn't call others morons. I wonder if even a single other person here shares your crazy fantasy evaluation of Lee's skills. It's just not reasonable.

If what Lee taught is still being used by "elite pros" today, why would you think that his skills are nil? How can you discount someone who created a fighting system that, almost, all of MMA uses today? People can claim that "I invented this or I invented that" but there is a book that has influenced every MMA practitioner directly or indirectly. That you can't acknowledge this, speaks volumes about your opinions, in general.

 

[itrainUFC]

The greatest fighters all recognize Bruce Lee and some of them take from Bruce Lee.


Michael Jai White submitted.


Mike Perry recognizes.


McGregor recognizes.

Regardless of what anyone wants to say Bruce Lee did something for martial arts. Without him Martial Arts wouldn't have been notice. MMA wouldn't have been a thing. Only Boxing and wrestling would be big.