Social Anti-vax MegaThread

[abiG]

I also haven't ever been robbed or mugged

Therfore, I have no need to ever worry about walking down a dark ally at night. 0%!

Based on your prior posts that I have read, I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this.

 

[Andy Capp]

Typical fake news.
"People who have had the vaccine can still get sick. The booster shot protects 70% of people from whooping cough in the first year after receiving it and 40% four years after receiving it, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Whooping cough tends to be most dangerous in babies, killing one out of every 100 infants infected, according to the CDC."

"Forty-six students have been diagnosed with pertussis at Harvard-Westlake, where enrollment is about 1,600. Eighteen students there have not been vaccinated against pertussis, but none of them has caught the illness, school spokesman Ari Engelberg said."

46 out of 1600 is even better than the stats above would suggest and without further information, other students not getting sick doesn't mean anything. The 18 students who weren't vaccinated had medical exemptions. It stands to reason they're already taking extra steps to avoid contagion of any kind.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Based on your prior posts that I have read, I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this.

Says the guy who has no grasp whatsoever on statistical significance, fractions and odds really, which I tried to lay out in an understandable format for you?

But you just throw your head in the sand because you think you found something that supports your preconceived world views.

 

[abiG]

Says the guy who has no grasp whatsoever on statistical significance, fractions and odds really, which I tried to lay out in an understandable format for you?

But you just throw your head in the sand because you think you found something that supports your preconceived world views.

I understand 0%. You do not.

 

[BEER]

Based on your prior posts that I have read, I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this.

You are the most disingenuous poster on Sherdog. My God.

 

[WhiteMousse]

Now you are being fucked.

NO unvaccinated student got sick.

The outbreak began and spread from the vaccinated community.

Where does the true danger lie?

You can do mental gymnastics all over this thread, but that changes none of the facts here.

Hold on, that's not mental gymnastics. That's stats. 1.1% of the population. If you chose another attribute, say, people who had green eyes, there would be a 98.9% chance that they would not contract whooping cough.

It's possible that vaccination plays a role but that is not something that is indicated in this data.

 

[HockeyBjj]

I understand 0%. You do not.

You actually don't understand 0% of 18 people catching a disease which they have a 3.1% chance of getting in that school.

You do not understand that that is what is to be expected. If a single unvaccinated kid got whooping cough there, non vacs would be catching the disease at a higher rate than those whose vaccination effectiveness had run out.

 

[Happy Man]

From @abiG 's own article, which he cherry picked only the parts of the story that conform to his own personal worldviews so he left this out-

It turns out that four years after someone receives the booster shot in about the seventh grade, the vaccine’s protection nearly vanishes, endangering high schoolers such as those at Harvard-Westlake, said Dr. James Cherry, a UCLA expert on pediatric infectious diseases.

“It is not surprising at all,” Cherry said of the recent cases.

The outbreak is a real-life example of something that experts have been noticing since doctors switched to a new form of the pertussis vaccine in 1997: Immunity wanes quickly.
___________________

So maybe instead of an erh ma Gerd, vaccines iz useless!!! Angle, it should be "the whooping cough vaccine is not a one and done immunity and requires boosters. Are scientists looking into another booster needed after 7th grade in the reccomended schedules with the uptick of highschool cases? And why was the whooping couch vaccine changes in 97 anyway?"

Lol, man big pharmaceutical has it figured out. Make useless and dangerous vaccines. Then make it so their ugly shit doesn’t even work after only a few years.

That way, everyone has to keep getting lots and lots and lots of shots!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$

And even better, use lobbying to corrupt politicians to FORCE people to buy your shots Year after year.

Yep, nothing wrong there.

For fucks sake people

 

[ShadowRun]

What’s the point of this thread

 

[PhitePhan]

When an anti-vaxer can tell me what, other than vaccines, caused the end of smallpox and polio I will agree with them that vaccines don't work. But yes, somebody not understanding or misusing science and math annoys me either way.

I'm not familiar with the elimination of smallpox, however, it is fact that the criteria for a polio diagnosis became much more stringent the same year the polio vax was introduced... sort of the inverse of the oft cited reason for increased autism diagnosis more recently.

In addition, textbooks also recognize sanitation and better understanding of polio as reasons for decline that are independent of the vaccine (makes sense since polio is transmitted oral fecal route). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the vax has helped (I would assume), although i think it is very clear that the idea that vaccination eliminated polio is not supported by facts. Also, you may be interested to hear about "provocative polio" which has shown that needle pokes leave people vulnerable to polio for some reason.

"The application of epidemiological surveillance and statistical methods enabled researchers to trace the steady rise in polio incidence along with the expansion of immunisation programmes for diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus... The impressive volume of literature on polio provocation by the 1950s fuelled changes in health policy. US health organisations and charities, including the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Public Health Association, accommodated the possibility of polio provocation and encouraged health professionals to avoid “indiscriminate” injections and “booster shots” during epidemics." https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61251-4/fulltext

 

[Happy Man]

Nobody suggested getting shots for life. Children are more at risk of severe consequences than adults so the vaccine makes more sense for them. Personally, I don't care whether people get vaccinated for minor stuff. It bugs the shit out of me the anti-vaxers act like vaccines don't work.

Its been proven and proven again that many times they don’t work. And many other times are straight dangerous.

But don’t let that other you. There is money to be made.

Imagine big pharmaceutical going, well just imagine our profit if we forced EVERYONE to put our shitty product in their bodies.

Then some evil person says, hey I got an idea, let’s make our product shitty enough that they have to keep buying it! No one and done. Our profits will skyrocket!

 

[HockeyBjj]

Lol, man big pharmaceutical has it figured out. Make useless and dangerous vaccines. Then make it so their ugly shit doesn’t even work after only a few years.

That way, everyone has to keep getting lots and lots and lots of shots!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$

And even better, use lobbying to corrupt politicians to FORCE people to buy your shots Year after year.

Yep, nothing wrong there.

For fucks sake people

At least this is a valid point here. What good are vaccines that need such repetitive boosts?

In whooping cough's case, it's that it's very deadly for infants and small children. So a "temporary" vaccine until they're older where it becomes near 100% survivable is to me sensible. Discussions should still be had however as that's clearly not a perfect system and needs work.

My arguments with abiG in here have been around him trying to extrapolate that because none of the 18 non vax kids got whooping cough while 50 of their classmates in a school of 1600 did, the non vax kids are better off.

I'm trying to use basic math to show that the odds are actually in favor of 50 kids getting sick with none of any control group of 18 yet contracting it, but math is too complicated I guess and logic and facts gets in the way of a desired emotional response.

 

[PhitePhan]

Its been proven and proven again that many times they don’t work. And many other times are straight dangerous.

But don’t let that other you. There is money to be made.

Imagine big pharmaceutical going, well just imagine our profit if we forced EVERYONE to put our shitty product in their bodies.

Then some evil person says, hey I got an idea, let’s make our product shitty enough that they have to keep buying it! No one and done. Our profits will skyrocket!

You forgot the part where they successfully lobbied to have liability for vaccine injuries removed in the 80's...

 

[abiG]

RE: Understanding the importance of 0%

Pertussis is one of the most highly contagious diseases on this planet. Ask the CDC.

When several vaccinated people get the disease while no one, literally not one UNvaccinated person gets the disease, bells, no horns, no bombs should be going fucking off (mental gymnastics aside).

If 16 out of the 18 got sick, or even 14, or even 1/2, with the current narrative, that would make sense. That is why we supposedly vaccinate.

But it was none.

 

[PhitePhan]

RE: Understanding the importance of 0%

Pertussis is one of the most highly contagious diseases on this planet. Ask the CDC.

When several vaccinated people get the disease while no one, literally not one UNvaccinated person gets the disease, bells, no horns, no bombs should be going fucking off (mental gymnastics aside).

If 16 out of the 18 got sick, or even 14, or even 1/2, with the current narrative, that would make sense. That is why we supposedly vaccinate.

But it was none.

Abi, I more than most appreciate your efforts on this topic, but the critique against you is valid... for example, the number of non vaccinated is usually so small that they have very low odds of catching the disease by that fact alone. Imagine, there are 30 classrooms with 50 people each, the 100 nonvaccinated students are in completely different classrooms than those who were exposed to the virus, and therefore, the nonvaccinated have a high likelihood of having never exposed to the virus, therefore they were never going to catch it... The obvious failure of the vaccine warrants further exploration rather than emphasizing this near statistical certainty that the nonvaccinated did not catch the disease.

 

[all caps]

At least this is a valid point here. What good are vaccines that need such repetitive boosts?

In whooping cough's case, it's that it's very deadly for infants and small children. So a "temporary" vaccine until they're older where it becomes near 100% survivable is to me sensible. Discussions should still be had however as that's clearly not a perfect system and needs work.

My arguments with abiG in here have been around him trying to extrapolate that because none of the 18 non vax kids got whooping cough while 50 of their classmates in a school of 1600 did, the non vax kids are better off.

I'm trying to use basic math to show that the odds are actually in favor of 50 kids getting sick with none of any control group of 18 yet contracting it, but math is too complicated I guess and logic and facts gets in the way of a desired emotional response.

I believe it's important we (normal citizens) get rid of the idea, in our own minds, that any of this stuff is put on the market with the idea of helping humanity or eliminating disease. That is not the way the world works.

 

[PhitePhan]

I believe it's important we (normal citizens) get rid of the idea, in our own minds, that any of this stuff is put on the market with the idea of helping humanity or eliminating disease. That is not the way the world works.

As a vocal "antivaxxer" I disagree. Read up on the history of polio and the panic when this disease was at its peak, you will find honorable medical professionals making the ultimate sacrifice in attempts to figure out this disease and stopping it's spread. By ultimate sacrifice, I mean doctors in early trials of the vaccine exposed their own children to the vaccine and some of them died...

 

[abiG]

Abi, I more than most appreciate your efforts on this topic, but the critique against you is valid... for example, the number of non vaccinated is usually so small that they have very low odds of catching the disease by that fact alone. Imagine, there are 30 classrooms with 50 people each, the 100 nonvaccinated students are in completely different classrooms than those who were exposed to the virus, and therefore, the nonvaccinated have a high likelihood of having never exposed to the virus, therefore they were never going to catch it... The obvious failure of the vaccine warrants further exploration rather than emphasizing this near statistical certainty that the nonvaccinated did not catch the disease.

I more than most appreciate your efforts on this topic as well. I also wish we could have larger sample sizes, but the near mandatory nature of injecting this crap into our kids, let alone the barrage of propaganda does not permit this.

That is no excuse to make the argument that the unvaccnated children in this example were safer. But, I never made that argument. I was hoping some of the provaxxers would get to this point by themselves, so I guess my overly cryptic 0% = 0% fell upon deaf ears. That said, this goes to what I have discussed prior, that these outbreaks occur in the vaccinated community. No one here can deny that in this case, this is exactly what has happened.

And I guess I need to point out as well that this comes at a time when politicians and their mouthpieces are screaming for mandatory vaccination.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Based on your prior posts that I have read, I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this.

I don't think anyone reading this thread would say the same thing with regards to you and your posts.

You clearly do not understand Math.

 

[abiG]

I don't think anyone reading this thread would say the same thing with regards to you and your posts.

You clearly do not understand Math.

It isn't even about that. It's about everyone with preconceived notions jumping on the vaccines are safe and proven bandwagon instead of realizing that this came from the vaccinated community.

If no unvaccinated people had the disease, then they could not have started the outbreak which is always the narrative we are presented with.

Everyone might wanna go read the OP so they can understand the topic.