another shooting at ft hood.

[UpaLoompa]

I wonder, what might the stats been in the past. Before after WWI, Before After WWII, etc... (as far as base shootings n what not)

Wonder if there's any correlation that might glean anything.

If the past mirrors the present, there may in fact be little fixable here. If its more a recent phenomena, then maybe........

After Newtown I went back and looked at the incidence of school shootings. Based on incidents reported in wikipedia tables they're not really any more common now than in the past.

What is different is that more people die in them now than in the past. Looking at the accounts this isn't because of gun-free zones or any of that shit but simply that it is in fact easier to kill more people with a Bushmaster and a 30 round clip than a double barrel shotgun. Of course school shootings are still so rare that this isn't a compelling argument for banning "Assault Weapons".

Ha ha, Internet context being what it is, that wasn't meant an insult.

Course I post at work, I only post at work, what do you think I do all day, work?

:icon_lol:

 

[Bay Area]

Assumption, the mother of all fuckups

 

[45ACP]

Assumption, the mother of all fuckups

So you agree it's silly to assume that armed service members will all just start shooting each other during an active shooter scenario.

That's good.

 

[Torami]

If multiple people are armed the threat will be taken care of long before the MAs arrive, no?

That doesn't mean they will actually kill him. He could get away with no wounds or only minor injuries. Knowing that other people are possibly armed also changes how you would approach the situation as the shooter. If they don't kill/stop him it slows down the process of actually apprehending the shooter greatly.

 

[MusterX]

So how would you tell the difference between the shooter and other armed uniformed people?

He's the one carrying a gun and shooting it at people, probably people you know.

 

[Torami]

He's the one carrying a gun and shooting it at people, probably people you know.

This question was if other people besides MAs were armed. Pls.

 

[45ACP]

That doesn't mean they will actually kill him. He could get away with no wounds or only minor injuries.

I don't see how that relates to not allowing soldiers to carry weapons on base. Since they might not be able to stop an active shooter instantly, it's better to ensure there is a wait time before any effective resistance can be made?

Knowing that other people are possibly armed changes how you would approach the situation as the shooter.

It sure does, a lot of the time it causes the shooter to find a situation to approach that doesn't involve armed resistance.

 

[Torami]

I don't see how that relates to not allowing soldiers to carry weapons on base. Since they might not be able to stop an active shooter instantly, it's better to ensure there is a wait time before any effective resistance can be made?

Gives him more time to harm others if hes not stopped, also causing more confusion who is actually the shooter with multiple guns on scene. Also creates a good possibility of collateral damage against other bystanders.

It sure does, a lot of the time it causes the shooter to find a situation to approach that doesn't involve armed resistance.

Doesnt mean he wouldnt go to the same place, would just mean he wouldnt start firing right in the middle of a crowd rather preferring to be near walls and a quick exit.

 

[MusterX]

I'm curious what medications he was on.

Pay attention if you hear "Anti Depressants", "Paxil", "Zoloft", or "SSRI"... Same medications almost every mass shooter recently has been taking.

Also very interesting that once he encountered the first ARMED RESISTANCE, he immediately turned the gun on himself and ended it.

Strangely its almost always the same narrative. Also, the U.S. is the most medicated nation on earth.

 

[Torami]

Strangely its almost always the same narrative. Also, the U.S. is the most medicated nation on earth.

We love our prescription drugs.

 

[45ACP]

This question was if other people besides MAs were armed. Pls.

If other people besides MAs were armed they would be shooting at people you know?

I really don't see the issue here. Even if everyone is dressed the same and carrying weapons it can't be that hard to tell which one is the guy with his weapon drawn shooting at random people.

Personally, I wouldn't advocate forceably arming everyone on a base, that's kinda stupid. I just don't see why those who choose to do so can't carry a weapon provided they do it within the limits of the local laws just like any civilian.

 

[Torami]

If other people besides MAs were armed they would be shooting at people you know?

wat?

 

[Its Me Austin]

After Newtown I went back and looked at the incidence of school shootings. Based on incidents reported in wikipedia tables they're not really any more common now than in the past.

What is different is that more people die in them now than in the past. Looking at the accounts this isn't because of gun-free zones or any of that shit but simply that it is in fact easier to kill more people with a Bushmaster and a 30 round clip than a double barrel shotgun. Of course school shootings are still so rare that this isn't a compelling argument for banning "Assault Weapons".

People STILL do this?

 

[Torami]

People STILL do this?

Well some weapons do use clips >>

 

[45ACP]

Well some weapons do use clips >>

He's obviously referring to a bushmaster AR-15. They use magazines, not clips.

He also believes it's settled fact that AR-15s are more deadly than shotguns. I'll provide a real fact: a 12g slug is almost infinitely better at incapacitation than a .223. The only real advantage the .223 has is penetration - which is what makes it better for shooting through cover, but worse for actually killing something.

 

[Torami]

He's obviously referring to a bushmaster AR-15. They use magazines, not clips.

Prolly why I said some, not the ar in question. Thanks tho captain obv!

He also believes it's settled fact that AR-15s are more deadly than shotguns. I'll provide a real fact: a 12g slug is almost infinitely better at incapacitation than a .223. The only real advantage the .223 has is penetration - which is what makes it better for shooting through cover, but worse for actually killing something.

More damage at close range obv, but the ar allows you to reach out and touch someone safely. The AR will end up with more wounded/killed due to ease of reload and capacity.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

After Newtown I went back and looked at the incidence of school shootings. Based on incidents reported in wikipedia tables they're not really any more common now than in the past.

Maybe so, I was wondering specifically about military & military bases in this case.

I know the Military look at and report on a lot of things, Be it the strategy of the cavalry at Custer's last Stand to John Bell hood's employment of Colt revolvers at Devil's River against the Indians, to on and on; going way back, right.

So I'm thinking there may exist reports on this sort incident too.

At the very least I bet the question is going to be asked, (if it hasn't been already):

How can a single asshole move that free, that long and shoot that many people at a military installation? Who's to stop a concerted effort made by a motivated group of armed individuals from completely taking a base hostage?

It's a legitimate military concern, I think.

Get the right base, and much mayhem could ensue.

Deranged groups watch & read the news too, and predators are always on the alert for easy targets.

 

[UpaLoompa]

He's obviously referring to a bushmaster AR-15. They use magazines, not clips.

You're being more pedantic than I am in a science thread. Fact of the matter is you knew what I was referring to and my usage is hardly uncommon. Everyone knew what I was referring to.

He also believes it's settled fact that AR-15s are more deadly than shotguns. I'll provide a real fact: a 12g slug is almost infinitely better at incapacitation than a .223. The only real advantage the .223 has is penetration - which is what makes it better for shooting through cover, but worse for actually killing something.

We're talking about mass shootings and going back over historical records the death tolls increase over time. It isn't ridiculous to attribute part of that to technology and frankly it is ridiculously dishonest to suggest otherwise. I recall that one of the earlier historical records of a school shooting I came across was with just one double barrel shotgun. Both the death toll and the number of people injured was pretty low. You're making a really disingenuous argument, which I suspect you know.

Then again, it isn't the worst argument I've seen. There was one guy trying to argue that the .223 round was damn near harmless since it was basically like a .22lr

Think about the V. Tech massacre. Do you think as many people would have been wounded and killed if he was using a revolver?

 

[UpaLoompa]

How can a single asshole move that free, that long and shoot that many people at a military installation? Who's to stop a concerted effort made by a motivated group of armed individuals from completely taking a base hostage?

It's a legitimate military concern, I think.

Get the right base, and much mayhem could ensue.

Deranged groups watch & read the news too, and predators are always on the alert for easy targets.

Sure but, at least compared to when I was a kid, it is a lot harder for people that don't belong there to get on bases now. Both this guy and the last Ft. Hood shooter weren't going to be kept off base because they were supposed to be on base.

 

[Torami]

At the very least I bet the question is going to be asked, (if it hasn't been already):

How can a single asshole move that free, that long and shoot that many people at a military installation? Who's to stop a concerted effort made by a motivated group of armed individuals from completely taking a base hostage?

It's a legitimate military concern, I think.

Get the right base, and much mayhem could ensue.

Deranged groups watch & read the news too, and predators are always on the alert for easy targets.

Fairly easy for the smaller bases.