Another raping gang in England.

[original doom]

Yes, there are estimates that the number of Salafi Jihadists (which overlaps with this interpretation) represent "less than 1% of Muslims", which could still be an incredibly large number of people. I don't think there's much precision with those estimates though.
One of the Salafi Jihadists main avenues for recruitment is prisons, and amongst hopeless deadbeats, although environmental factors (ie civil war) can certainly increase that.
I think it's more likely that they are just criminal scumbags, and their disrespect for women might be cultural, but it's unlikely to be a result of religious devotion or teaching.
They are frequently involved with drugs, and that's outright prohibited by all interpretations of Islam.

your posts are very articulate......but your in no position to claim these men arent using islam or racism when choosing their victims.

too claim these drug taking muslims are just run of mill scumbags is nothing short of blatant dishonesty.

 

[Ruprecht]

your posts are very articulate......but your in no position to claim these men arent using islam or racism when choosing their victims.

too claim these drug taking muslims are just run of mill scumbags is nothing short of blatant dishonesty.

They might be using racism, but if they claimed justification through Islam, given their other behaviour it would simply be the usual religious hypocrisy.
The point was that their behaviour isn't condoned by Islam, as a reply to the poster that presented the idea that rape is condoned by Islam. It's a common tactic to interpret someone else's scripture for them, or choose an aberrant interpretation, and use that strawman as a criticism.
If you're going to criticise a religion or someone's beliefs, you should criticise what they actually believe.
That's not saying they aren't an ethnic gang.

 

[franklinstower]

They might be using racism, but if they claimed justification through Islam, given their other behaviour it would simply be the usual religious hypocrisy.
The point was that their behaviour isn't condoned by Islam, as a reply to poster that presented the idea that rape is condoned by Islam. It's a common tactic to interpret someone else's scripture for them, or choose an aberrant interpretation, and use that strawman as a criticism.
If you're going to criticise a religion or someone's beliefs, you should criticise what they actually believe.
That's not saying they aren't an ethnic gang.

I've read most of your posts on this subject and I appreciate the knowledge and perspective. Still it is hard to get around thinking this IS a muslim problem even if the problem only represents 1% of the population as you offered. Do you not think the problem here is primarily allowing muslims to immigrate to Europe? I mean-- left up to you to have total power to solve this problem what would you do

Also what is your take on the position that European governments are not reporting on these type of things and or not investigating them out of fear of seeming prejudice against Islam?

 

[surrealworlds]

your posts are very articulate......but your in no position to claim these men arent using islam or racism when choosing their victims.

too claim these drug taking muslims are just run of mill scumbags is nothing short of blatant dishonesty.

Is it? Id say if you take 1% of any group, religious or not you will come up with some scumbags.
Lets see if it works:
1% of priests are child rapists....yea, probably true
1% of Christians are scumbag drug addicts that dont pay attention to their claimed religion.....still holds true.

Now im dont defending Muslims but i do want an honest assessment which @Ruprecht has been kind enough to provide.

Now with that being said, if its less than 1% of Muslims(still a very large group) AND we take for granted the vast majority of Muslims are normal people that dknt want to harm anyone and although their religion might be different they just want to worship in their own way without interference....well if thats true, what the hell is going on in England? The media and this thread make it sound like its a Muslim invasion being propogated by Rape-gangs and coordinated strategies by Imams that are telling Mosque congregations to actively revolt against the country that has given them asylum. Is that a gross misrepresentation?

 

[Ruprecht]

I've read most of your posts on this subject and I appreciate the knowledge and perspective. Still it is hard to get around thinking this IS a muslim problem even if the problem only represents 1% of the population as you offered. Do you not think the problem here is primarily allowing muslims to immigrate to Europe? I mean-- left up to you to have total power to solve this problem what would you do

Also what is your take on the position that European governments are not reporting on these type of things and or not investigating them out of fear of seeming prejudice against Islam?

They should do the opposite and acknowledge that ethnic crime gangs are an issue and create task forces to address them.
I disagree that this (unlike Salafi Jihadism) is a "muslim" problem though, as the gangs have also included non-muslims from the Indian subcontinent. In the UK it appears to be an Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi issue.
They also need to reform the prison system to stop them operating as a recruitment centre for these criminal gangs (including the Salafi Jihadists). Most likely by isolating the gangs from other inmates.

 

[SaiWa]

At least I'm not the one running interference for child rapists.

You talking about the UK cops who didn’t do shit for years???

Yeah I agree...

 

[franklinstower]

They should do the opposite and acknowledge that ethnic crime gangs are an issue and create task forces to address them.
I disagree that this (unlike Salafi Jihadism) is a "muslim" problem though, as the gangs have also included non-muslims from the Indian subcontinent. In the UK it appears to be an Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi issue.
They also need to reform the prison system to stop them operating as a recruitment centre for these criminal gangs (including the Salafi Jihadists). Most likely by isolating the gangs from other inmates.

Thanks for the post. One more question and if you happen to have a link on this next question I would read it as I am floored that it is happening.


Do you not deny that governments in the UK are afraid to speak out against all of this and take real action? Are they as some are saying covering up for crimes that might be or seem to be muslim? Are they turning on their own citizens if they speak out?

 

[Ruprecht]

Thanks for the post. One more question and if you happen to have a link on this next question I would read it as I am floored that it is happening.


Do you not deny that governments in the UK are afraid to speak out against all of this and take real action? Are they as some are saying covering up for crimes that might be or seem to be muslim? Are they turning on their own citizens if they speak out?

I don't live in the UK, but I don't trust populist interpretations which rely entirely on anecdotes.

It's certainly been the self admitted case in at least one of these gang incidents that reports were smothered due to worries about racism.

 

[original doom]

They might be using racism, but if they claimed justification through Islam, given their other behaviour it would simply be the usual religious hypocrisy.
The point was that their behaviour isn't condoned by Islam, as a reply to the poster that presented the idea that rape is condoned by Islam. It's a common tactic to interpret someone else's scripture for them, or choose an aberrant interpretation, and use that strawman as a criticism.
If you're going to criticise a religion or someone's beliefs, you should criticise what they actually believe.
That's not saying they aren't an ethnic gang.

it doesnt matter if its condoned by islam. it has been used as a justification for just that aka those pagan kurds.

too sum it up its racist muslims who believe underage white girls are fair game for rape and trafficing. debating on what the koran supposedly says doesnt really matter.

 

[original doom]

I don't live in the UK, but I don't trust populist interpretations which rely entirely on anecdotes.

It's certainly been the self admitted case in at least one of these gang incidents that reports were smothered due to worries about racism.

if the authorities have been caught red handed covering up these cases or at the very least ignoring them how can that attributed too "populist anecdotes"

 

[Ruprecht]

it doesnt matter if its condoned by islam. it has been used as a justification for just that aka those pagan kurds.

too sum it up its racist muslims who believe underage white girls are fair game for rape and trafficing. debating on what the koran supposedly says doesnt really matter.

Sure it does, because it's being used to characterise muslims generally and I was specifically responding to a poster who claimed it was a teaching in the Quran.
Also there's no evidence that these groups are explicitly religious in the same way that ISIS or other Salafi Jihadists are. Clearly it's an ethnic gang.

 

[Ruprecht]

if the authorities have been caught red handed covering up these cases or at the very least ignoring them how can that attributed too "populist anecdotes"

Because the idea that the UK government is covering up crimes and turning on citizens for speaking out about them is an interpretation of anecdotal reports feeding into a populist narrative.
The Police Deparment's own admission that they failed to follow up on reports due to fears of being seen as racist, doesn't justify that interpretation.
We saw a similar thing happen here (not with rape gangs, but ethnic gangs generally), and the consequence was the establishment of task forces to deal with ethnic crime.

 

[pinger]

They should do the opposite and acknowledge that ethnic crime gangs are an issue and create task forces to address them.
I disagree that this (unlike Salafi Jihadism) is a "muslim" problem though, as the gangs have also included non-muslims from the Indian subcontinent. In the UK it appears to be an Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi issue.
They also need to reform the prison system to stop them operating as a recruitment centre for these criminal gangs (including the Salafi Jihadists). Most likely by isolating the gangs from other inmates.

Thankfully in Australia the PC warriors have not YET completely taken over.

We still have groups like the Middle Eastern Task Force in policing. It makes sense that a specialist group with specialist knowledge should target crime groups who operate within cultural groups.

 

[Ruprecht]

Thankfully in Australia the PC warriors have not YET completely taken over.

We still have groups like the Middle Eastern Task Force in policing. It makes sense that specialist group with specialist knowledge should target crime groups who operate within cultural groups.

Yes, if you create a specific task force you can also employ members of the community. Which both helps stave off claims of racism and makes them more effective.

 

[nhbbear]

It is stuff like this that fuels the xenophobic and violent reactions that are never directed at the people responsible. And it is these acts taking place in European countries that welcomed them with open arms, and now are seeing that maybe they should screen a bit better, it then everyone of these guys could have been born in uk. Hang these fucks by their dicks over a pit of spikes. When the dick rips off, they get impales like the girls they raped.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why you don’t vote for progressive liberals.

 

[pinger]

Yes, if you create a specific task force you can also employ members of the community. Which both helps stave off claims of racism and makes them more effective.

Exactly. It makes sense to have people from the culture to help police the culture. Language is the most obvious of the myriad of logical reasons.

 

[IDL]

Exactly. It makes sense to have people from the culture to help police the culture. Language is the most obvious of the myriad of logical reasons.

It is one of the complexities and challenges of multicultural environments really. Who polices who? It becomes of group X policing group Y and then that raises all sorts of tribal issues.

This rape gang issue does seem like a tribal one. With Pakistani Muslim subgroup viewing young British girls as some sort of bounty from an outside tribe (outside tribe being the host people) for them to partake in.

Given the current political climate of pushing multiculturalism as a primary political agenda it is no wonder why there is a tendency to want to sweep it under the rug. It makes their political objectives look bad.

 

[KnightTemplar]

In jail for offensive Tweets.

Not even really a joke, considering the father of one of the Rotherham victims traced his 13 year old daughter to the house of a Muslim with a previous history of sex offences against underage girls. The Muslim called the cops, who arrested the father for racist abuse. And left his daughter with the Muslim, in spite of being aware of his criminal record.

A lot of the so-called coppers in the Rotherham area should be in prison, but while UK cops are shit are protecting citizens, they are bloody good at covering their own backs

 

[sweede]

Not even really a joke, considering the father of one of the Rotherham victims traced his 13 year old daughter to the house of a Muslim with a previous history of sex offences against underage girls. The Muslim called the cops, who arrested the father for racist abuse. And left his daughter with the Muslim, in spite of being aware of his criminal record.

A lot of the so-called coppers in the Rotherham area should be in prison, but while UK cops are shit are protecting citizens, they are bloody good at covering their own backs

Can you give me some details please? What about the daughter, did the police not even talk to the girl and asked if she wanted to come along? Why was she there in the first place, is she a drug addict?

If it is as you say, we are talking about Jeffrey Dahmer incompetent level of police work.