Anderson Silva fighting stance...

[a guy]

The difference is I'm not stating my opinion as absolute fact, which is what I perceive he often does.
Apart from that I am mostly arguing for what I see to be the more plausible scenarios.
Also, it still could be conjecture if Silva comes out and explains things. It depends on how he explains them. He seems to troll a lot, or just speak in very ambiguous and general terms. That doesn't just apply to him though, a lot of fighters and trainers say weird shit.

My opinion is just that, my opinion. I don't think I need to type that out every time I make an argument though.

 

[flanellograf]

You're saying it isn't part of his game and that he's just clowning-- if he is more affective at that, how is it not part of his game plan?

Maybe I'm confusing your position, and if I am, I apologize.

You are confusing my position.

 

[flanellograf]

You're guessing as much as I am. But I said in my last past that Silva spends a lot of time trying to assert his dominance and win the mental aspect of fights. He wants his opponents to get angry, frustrated and desperate. He works very hard to make those things happen, and to make it look like he's not trying at all in the process. Does he NEED to clown? Maybe not, but he certainly benefits from it when his opponents react as he hopes.

I never said it couldn't. And I'm not saying his hubris comes from Weidman, I'm saying that IF his hubris is responsible for the loss then Weidman gets credit for beating him soundly enough to infuriate him and wound his pride.

There's no reason to suggest that Silva was gonna turn into a late finisher when he had very little success against Weidman, and Weidman (unlike Sonnen) has no glaring weaknesses. Silva does wait to get timing, but if he hasn't found it in the amount of time he spent standing in both fights against Weidman then historically he won't be able to find it. As I said, the amount of time he waits is largely overstated by fans hyping his mystique. It generally takes him a few minutes of standup before he starts taking over, but he never showed any signs of even being able to do that against Weidman.

I am just saying you have a tendency to express yourself in what sounds like absolutes. It's more conducive for a productive discussion to be as specific as possible when making value judgements so we don't get bogged down in semantics and people having to guess what the other person means and rephrasing the same points ad nauseum. It feels like a large part of this discussion has been just that.
(Not that I proclaim to be entirely without fault here either. I could ask for clarification more often instead of jumping down your throat immediately. )

That last hubris sentence makes no sense to me. Perhaps try and rephrase it.

Historically? How many times has it happened that he didn't get his timing in fights after a certain time had elapsed? Not many, if any; a very small sample size indeed. Certainly not enough to suggest he couldn't do it. Remember, he also spent a big part of the first round on the ground. He did fairly decent in the second round in the standup. I just recently saw a post counting the blows landed, and he apparently outstruck him in the second, before the end.
Look, I'm not saying he would have. Just that it's Anderson Silva after all, and it's almost common place to expect the unexpected with him. I contend you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, even though I have doubts myself. Especially considering his age and failing chin.
Again, I'm just saying I would have liked to see more, that's all. This very likely was the last chance we had.

 

[a guy]

I am just saying you have a tendency to express yourself in what sounds like absolutes. It's more conducive for a productive discussion to be as specific as possible when making value judgements so we don't get bogged down in semantics and people having to guess what the other person means and rephrasing the same points ad nauseum. It feels like a large part of this discussion has been just that.
(Not that I proclaim to be entirely without fault here either. I could ask for clarification more often instead of jumping down your throat immediately. )

That last hubris sentence makes no sense to me. Perhaps try and rephrase it.

Historically? How many times has it happened that he didn't get his timing in fights after a certain time had elapsed? Not many, if any; a very small sample size indeed. Certainly not enough to suggest he couldn't do it. Remember, he also spent a big part of the first round on the ground. He did fairly decent in the second round in the standup. I just recently saw a post counting the blows landed, and he apparently outstruck him in the second, before the end.
Look, I'm not saying he would have. Just that it's Anderson Silva after all, and it's almost common place to expect the unexpected with him. I contend you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, even though I have doubts myself. Especially considering his age and failing chin.
Again, I'm just saying I would have liked to see more, that's all. This very likely was the last chance we had.

Fair enough, you're right that I tend to word my arguments as if they're absolutely true but that's not my intention. Maybe this would all go smoother if I put "I think" before everything haha.

What I mean by the hubris is that silva was clearly furious at the end of the round. If everything he was doing was an attempt to show off, then I think you have to give Weidman credit for shutting him down and making him that mad by hurting his ego.

The sample size is small, but it almost always is when talking about one fighter. That's the thing. He usually finishes, but when he doesn't do it early he doesn't do it. Even if you just skim his record and have never seen him fight. It's not impossible that he would have finished Weidman, but it's very unlikely. The ONLY time silva has finished after the second round was against sonnen who has a history of being submitted anyway. And I don't put much stock in strikes landed, silva didn't land any clean damaging shots but Weidman did.
That last part we can absolutely agree on. There are questions that are never going to be definitively answered.

 

[flanellograf]

Fair enough, you're right that I tend to word my arguments as if they're absolutely true but that's not my intention. Maybe this would all go smoother if I put "I think" before everything haha.

What I mean by the hubris is that silva was clearly furious at the end of the round. If everything he was doing was an attempt to show off, then I think you have to give Weidman credit for shutting him down and making him that mad by hurting his ego.

The sample size is small, but it almost always is when talking about one fighter. That's the thing. He usually finishes, but when he doesn't do it early he doesn't do it. Even if you just skim his record and have never seen him fight. It's not impossible that he would have finished Weidman, but it's very unlikely. The ONLY time silva has finished after the second round was against sonnen who has a history of being submitted anyway. And I don't put much stock in strikes landed, silva didn't land any clean damaging shots but Weidman did.
That last part we can absolutely agree on. There are questions that are never going to be definitively answered.

Sure, I can totally give Weidman credit for hurting his ego. My only point really, was that his ego was pretty huge at that point, and because of it instead of dialing down the clowning and trying to be crisper in his approach, he did the opposite. Which wasn't the rational thing to do and pretty uncharacteristic for a fighter known for being mentally strong and having pretty good fight IQ.

I did also come to the realization of why you could view the fight the way you do. Analysts tend to focus on what happens in the fight, and not really on surrounding, extraneous, factors such as injuries, personal life issues etc.
Which makes total sense when trying to break down technique and the specifics of a fight, but can be a nearsighted approach when analyzing the complete picture. Maia could have gotten under Andersons skin making him want to "embarrass" him. Andersons rib injury in the first Sonnen fight likely affected him in their first fight, etc. Especially since the sample size is small, these factors can make a big difference.

 

[WillW]

Lol u guys still goin at it.

flanellograf vs. guy

winner gets realist for the belt.

My only point really, was that his ego was pretty huge at that point, and because of it instead of dialing down the clowning and trying to be crisper in his approach, he did the opposite. Which wasn't the rational thing to do and pretty uncharacteristic for a fighter known for being mentally strong and having pretty good fight IQ.

Agree. Chris was doing well and not giving Anderson the looks he wanted, so what did Anderson do, even worse clowning to try and bait he clearly prepared/intelligent opponent and put himself in a horrible position to get KTFO. If Anderson wanted to win he should have used more leg kicks (in the first fight:wink
It was strange, not sure why were still talking about the first fight.

 

[a guy]

Sure, I can totally give Weidman credit for hurting his ego. My only point really, was that his ego was pretty huge at that point, and because of it instead of dialing down the clowning and trying to be crisper in his approach, he did the opposite. Which wasn't the rational thing to do and pretty uncharacteristic for a fighter known for being mentally strong and having pretty good fight IQ.

I did also come to the realization of why you could view the fight the way you do. Analysts tend to focus on what happens in the fight, and not really on surrounding, extraneous, factors such as injuries, personal life issues etc.
Which makes total sense when trying to break down technique and the specifics of a fight, but can be a nearsighted approach when analyzing the complete picture. Maia could have gotten under Andersons skin making him want to "embarrass" him. Andersons rib injury in the first Sonnen fight likely affected him in their first fight, etc. Especially since the sample size is small, these factors can make a big difference.

You're right, I focus a lot more on what happens in fights than outside factors. I don't ignore them entirely, but when I see things in the fights that explain what's going on I focus more on that.

 

[flanellograf]

Lol u guys still goin at it.

flanellograf vs. guy

winner gets realist for the belt.



Agree. Chris was doing well and not giving Anderson the looks he wanted, so what did Anderson do, even worse clowning to try and bait he clearly prepared/intelligent opponent and put himself in a horrible position to get KTFO. If Anderson wanted to win he should have used more leg kicks (in the first fight:wink
It was strange, not sure why were still talking about the first fight.

Someone is wrong on the internet and all that.
It's also refreshing to have a decently high-brow disagreement on this forum, that actually does get somewhat resolved.
At any rate, how ever dissatisfying (and unfortunate) the outcomes of their two fights were, it does lend Weidmans next couple of fights some added interest. Will he prove himself against probably the strongest MW-roster yet?
If he beats Vitor, Jacare, Mousasi, Machida, Kennedy and Rockholt, then we really need to start talking about him as a P4P contender.
The question is also how injury prone he is, and how much injuries will be a factor in the future. He has already had some serious injuries, and has a very physical style that probably wears on the body quite a bit.