Anderson Silva fighting stance...

[flanellograf]

I agree, but I'm wondering what people will have to say about how Silva was able to do nothing to Weidman in the standup or on the ground. He landed some knees in the clinch, before getting dropped, and some pretty hard shots from the bottom in exchange for Weidmans elbows and punches. I just want people to give Weidman some credit and recognize the unique things he presented to Silva. It's a shame that the fight ended how it did, but I believe there was enough action for Weidman to prove he can beat Silva soundly clowning or not.

Conversely, people saying the fights prove anything conclusively are equally annoying.
It's was pretty clear Weidman was a special fighter after the Munoz fight already, if not sooner. Silva however does take some time to get going, and has lost many a first round previously, and did not look like himself in the first one (even if you disregard the excessive clowning, he fought half-heartedly). Which is why the fight still leave some questions unanswered, unfortunately. However, I'm not sure they would have been answered either way, since Silvas chin doesn't seem to be what it used to.

EDIT: lol, red belt? Damn, I have no life.

 

[SummerStriker]

I don't think his technique is at fault even though it was sloppy - that inside low kick break was something you see mainly when guys don't give their shins adequate time to recover in training - all the shin breaks I can recall - most guys admitted to slight injuries in training & not allowing recovery time - I wonder if Anderson Silva when he's fit might shed light on the issue because I suspect it was done during training camp but it's rare to see from someone with his experience (15 years +).

People will start hyping checking from now - in fact it will become the new technique to use in the octagon lol.

I agree.

I was just trying to practice sounding like I post on Sherdog.

 

[a guy]

Sure, but generally people don't shoot anymore without setting it up or without timing it. Most fighters keep their hands pretty low in mma anyway, so I doubt it makes much of a difference, and it sure didn't stop Chris from trying takedowns in the first fight.

This isn't about just Silva, this is about the fact that keeping the hands low helps stop take downs. If most MMA fighters keep their hands low and countless people talk about how keeping the hands low helps TDD, don't you think there's something to that?

The only time Weidman really shot in the first fight was when Silva had his high guard. After that, I'm pretty sure Weidman even said in an interview he was just trying to mix it up and keep it in Silva's mind. I could also argue that, even if Weidman was trying hard to shoot, Silva easily stuffed him once he dropped his hands. Do you need low hands for TDD? Absolutely not, but they make a big difference.

 

[flanellograf]

No I don't think you need to have terrible reflexes for it to matter. It's about the striking when you strike and put your hands up like you actually should in striking the other guy can start exchanging punches and use them to set up a TD even if you have good reflexes it's very likely that they aren't good enough and/or that you can't get your arms fast enough down to get underhooks. It makes a difference. Robert Whitaker fought his last fights with his hands completely down not even chest level but hanging down and defending punches only with headmovement and his shoulder and he showed very good TDD and he said he does it for TDD.
If you have your hands down you have it much easier to throw punches and commit to them without getting taken down you don't even need to overcommit in a pure striking sense but even if you punches textbook-ish you open yourself up to TDs

Note that I said it doesn't matters much, especially if you have good wrestling anyway. There is also the problem of being somewhat more susceptible to punches set up by a possible takedown, like the overhand from a lowered stance.

 

[flanellograf]

This isn't about just Silva, this is about the fact that keeping the hands low helps stop take downs. If most MMA fighters keep their hands low and countless people talk about how keeping the hands low helps TDD, don't you think there's something to that?

The only time Weidman really shot in the first fight was when Silva had his high guard. After that, I'm pretty sure Weidman even said in an interview he was just trying to mix it up and keep it in Silva's mind. I could also argue that, even if Weidman was trying hard to shoot, Silva easily stuffed him once he dropped his hands. Do you need low hands for TDD? Absolutely not, but they make a big difference.

Again it comes down to semantics. People generally mean hands at the hips when saying low hands. I'm saying having the hands in a mid position between that and a high guard is basically equally effective. The extra tdd you might from keeping them at the hip get seems negligible to me, especially since you are at greater risk for the overhand as I just mentioned.

 

[a guy]

Conversely, people saying the fights prove anything conclusively are equally annoying.
It's was pretty clear Weidman was a special fighter after the Munoz fight already, if not sooner. Silva however does take some time to get going, and has lost many a first round previously, and did not look like himself in the first one (even if you disregard the excessive clowning, he fought half-heartedly). Which is why the fight still leave some questions unanswered, unfortunately. However, I'm not sure they would have been answered either way, since Silvas chin doesn't seem to be what it used to.

EDIT: lol, red belt? Damn, I have no life.

I'm not saying they prove anything conclusively. I'm not one of the people who thinks Weidman is a better striker, or that he can dominate Silva in any aspect of the fight. But I do think Weidman deserves a ton of credit for the technical and mental skills he showed. As well as for the fact that Silva couldn't land any of his trademark moves, and never even had Weidman in trouble. I think this is a great article that honestly gives Weidman his dues: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...is-weidman-162-mma-technique-judo-chop-ko-gif I don't agree that Silva was fighting half-heartedly, I just think he was trying very hard to give that impression to everyone.
Silva getting old was always going to be a problem when he got beat. I've been thinking for years that the guy who beats him will never do so without all kinds of factors that appear to taint the legitimacy of the win.

 

[a guy]

Again it comes down to semantics. People generally mean hands at the hips when saying low hands. I'm saying having the hands in a mid position between that and a high guard is basically equally effective. The extra tdd you might from keeping them at the hip get seems negligible to me, especially since you are at greater risk for the overhand as I just mentioned.

People call hands at the chest hands down all the time. Anything that isn't hands at chin level is basically considered hands down. I agree that there's a point where you stop getting a lot of benefit, and hands at the hips is getting to the point where it's the mental factors at play more than anything else. But those mental factors are important, especially to someone like Silva. The threat of the overhand is minimized if you have a good stance and know how to defend it without blocking. It's actually more dangerous when you rely on blocking it, because then you become very easy to set up for take downs.

 

[flanellograf]

I'm not saying they prove anything conclusively. I'm not one of the people who thinks Weidman is a better striker, or that he can dominate Silva in any aspect of the fight. But I do think Weidman deserves a ton of credit for the technical and mental skills he showed. As well as for the fact that Silva couldn't land any of his trademark moves, and never even had Weidman in trouble. I think this is a great article that honestly gives Weidman his dues: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...is-weidman-162-mma-technique-judo-chop-ko-gif I don't agree that Silva was fighting half-heartedly, I just think he was trying very hard to give that impression to everyone.
Silva getting old was always going to be a problem when he got beat. I've been thinking for years that the guy who beats him will never do so without all kinds of factors that appear to taint the legitimacy of the win.

If he intended to look half-hearted or not, is not really relevant. The result it the same; ineffectuality. It was pretty clear he was full of himself in that fight, and was sure a counter would just manifest itself without him even having to try hard.
Which is why this fight was compelling, even though there was the looming age factor. It's just unfortunate that the most credible threat Silva has ever faced, had to happen in the twilight of his career, and the result be as freakish as it was. Regardless of the skill Weidman showed, the fights both ended weirdly.

 

[flanellograf]

People call hands at the chest hands down all the time. Anything that isn't hands at chin level is basically considered hands down. I agree that there's a point where you stop getting a lot of benefit, and hands at the hips is getting to the point where it's the mental factors at play more than anything else. But those mental factors are important, especially to someone like Silva. The threat of the overhand is minimized if you have a good stance and know how to defend it without blocking. It's actually more dangerous when you rely on blocking it, because then you become very easy to set up for take downs.

What people? I've not noticed that much.

It depends on how you defend it. The arm out defense while moving back, that I've seen Gus use for instance, seems pretty effective as it doesn't block your vision and as long as the other hand is decently low the risk for a takedown is mitigated.
Obviously positioning and distance is the first thing you should worry about, but that goes for defending takedowns as well, so that doesn't really say much.

 

[a guy]

If he intended to look half-hearted or not, is not really relevant. The result it the same; ineffectuality. It was pretty clear he was full of himself in that fight, and was sure a counter would just manifest itself without him even having to try hard.
Which is why this fight was compelling, even though there was the looming age factor. It's just unfortunate that the most credible threat Silva has ever faced, had to happen in the twilight of his career, and the result be as freakish as it was. Regardless of the skill he showed, the fights both ended weirdly.

Him trying to look half-hearted was him working hard to make a counter manifest. As the article I posted mentions, Silva does his worst clowning when he doesn't get opportunities. That was the first time he was ever losing AND not getting any opportunities. He didn't clown in the second fight, but he still didn't land a single counter. Weidman deserves credit for that. His solid footwork, his broken rhythm and his own mind games give Silva nothing to work with.
Agreed. I would hate to be Weidman right now. He gave his best efforts and looked great but no one cares, everyone just wants to talk about Silva.

 

[ThatBJJGuy]

I have been thinking alot about Anderson Silva lately. So i want to start a discussion about his fighting style. And with focus on his fighting stance. What do you think about it?

I have watched him fight since his pride and cage rage days. And i think he was at his most technical clean style at his cage rage champion days, and up to his rematch against franklin.

Back then he would come out with a high guard MT inspired fighting stance. He would use small but slick footwork to feel out the other guy, before getting into a agressive counter mode.

Then he started to get more and more fancy.. And it worked for him because of his unique way of staying cool during fighting, his timing and almost endless toolkit of strikes..

But i really miss the more textbook clean Anderson Silva.. IMO what was more badass to watch.

What do you guys think?

I totally agree with you! This was a prime Anderson Silva who didnt fight with the pressure he has today. Then he's got too many people surrounding him. Just look at how big his entourage is when he travels. He's got like 16 people around him lol.

I think age and motivation is playing a factor here. He should have just retired on top and no one would say anything.

I miss this old style Anderson he was the most bad ass here instead of toying with low level strkers like thales leites, patrick cote and maia.

 

[flanellograf]

Him trying to look half-hearted was him working hard to make a counter manifest. As the article I posted mentions, Silva does his worst clowning when he doesn't get opportunities. That was the first time he was ever losing AND not getting any opportunities. He didn't clown in the second fight, but he still didn't land a single counter. Weidman deserves credit for that. His solid footwork, his broken rhythm and his own mind games give Silva nothing to work with.
Agreed. I would hate to be Weidman right now. He gave his best efforts and looked great but no one cares, everyone just wants to talk about Silva.

That's simply ridiculously untrue. He didn't need to clown Forrest, nor Bonnar, nor Maia. He could have comfortably beaten them without even countering once, and in fact did a lot of attacking. Neither of them were a significant threat in the standup or takedown department. He also DID get opportunities in the first fight with Weidman, even if they weren't plentiful. The ending sequence in particular. He just happened to be more passive and dismissive than usual, for no good reason.
Again, Weidman did very well, but that doesn't come close to explain everything that happened. That would just be curve fitting.

 

[WillW]

Do you need low hands for TDD? Absolutely not, but they make a big difference.

Do you need hands for striking defense? Absolutely not, but they make a big difference.





What fighters do rely on hands only for defense? Its not as though these guys dont know about footwork and head movement.

I really dont see many fighters use the exact same go to defense for the same shot, they mix it up.


Do you not like Anderson? He got KTFO, then his leg was split in 2. Its almost like your arguing with yourself. I havent seen much people not give credit to widemen, not need to point out the obvious.

 

[a guy]

That's simply ridiculously untrue. He didn't need to clown Forrest, nor Bonnar, nor Maia. He could have comfortably beaten them without even countering once, and in fact did a lot of attacking. Neither of them were a significant threat in the standup or takedown department. He also DID get opportunities in the first fight with Weidman, even if they weren't plentiful. The ending sequence in particular. He just happened to be more passive and dismissive than usual, for no good reason.
Again, Weidman did very well, but that doesn't come close to explain everything that happened. That would just be curve fitting.

He doesn't want to beat people comfortably, he wants to finish them. Which he can't do without them being aggressive. He barely got any good openings because he struggled greatly to control range. And he only takes perfect openings, he's the pickiest or laziest counter striker around.

 

[Jukai]

I really don't get how people are arguing this.

Anderson with his hands up = Gets taken down by Weidman

Anderson with his hands low = Doesn't get taken down

Is this just dumb luck?

 

[a guy]

Do you need hands for striking defense? Absolutely not, but they make a big difference.





What fighters do rely on hands only for defense? Its not as though these guys dont know about footwork and head movement.

I really dont see many fighters use the exact same go to defense for the same shot, they mix it up.


Do you not like Anderson? He got KTFO, then his leg was split in 2. Its almost like your arguing with yourself. I havent seen much people not give credit to widemen, not need to point out the obvious.

You can still block with low hands just like you can still sprawl with high hands. That's the point, neither is wrong and it depends on preference.

Overeem, lauzon, plenty of lower level fighters. And more if you count those who do it more than those other things.

I didn't say they do.

I actually love Silva. But tons of people give Weidman no credit. And plenty more think he can only beat a clowning silva or win with freak accidents, which is far from reality.

 

[Jukai]

I feel this statement is going to make some people upset, butttt...
Yes, you can have great takedown defense with a high guard.
Silva doesn't, and never had that ability. It was a HUGE weakness in his MMA game. He was able to get around it by dropping his hands, as it allowed him to get underhooks AND goad others into striking with him. Unfortunately, a combination of age and Chris fucking Weidman were too much.

There are many in this thread who keep parroting "but you don't NEED to do that to defend the takedown." This is true, but Anderson Silva did have to do that. That has always been his game. He can't suddenly just change that on a whim after twenty years of fighting.

 

[Frode Falch]

meh..

 

[flanellograf]

He doesn't want to beat people comfortably, he wants to finish them. Which he can't do without them being aggressive. He barely got any good openings because he struggled greatly to control range. And he only takes perfect openings, he's the pickiest or laziest counter striker around.

That is just conjecture, thus not really worth discussing. You don't have any actual idea about what his motivations are.
No, he most certainly does not just take perfect openings, unless you have a very broad definition of perfect.

 

[a guy]

That is just conjecture, thus not really worth discussing. You don't have any actual idea about what his motivations are.
No, he most certainly does not just take perfect openings, unless you have a very broad definition of perfect.

Well there's plenty of conjecture about his lack of motivation or seriousness, I don't think his desire to finish is that controversial.
Silva is well known for only countering when he has a read on his opponents rhythm and timing, and usually when they're over-extended and way out of position. To the point that he is called lazy about his opportunities. That's why his accuracy is so amazing, but also why he couldn't hit Weidman.