Ancient megalithic structures and sites.

[andnowweknow]

That's a whole lot of subjective circumstantial inferences with any type of actual evidence, there.

It's large rocks with flat surfaces and holes drilled in them. I'd need a shitload more evidence than that before I conclude technology comparable to modern day.


Btw, the "biggest mass extinction event of the last several million years" is still ongoing (and accelerating), and is for the greatest part attributed to human activity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

I'm not sure how in depth you have looked at this subject matter, but it's literally all circumstantial evidence, especially for something like the building of who, when and why when it comes to the Great Pyramid. I'm happy to go into what little detail there is regarding why the Great Pyramid is attributed to Khufu, or why certain Mayan or Incan construction is attributed to them. To say it is "subjective" or "circumstantial" even in the "mainstream" opinion is putting it mildly.

That aside, and I'll just stick with Giza for now, the Great Pyramids mystery doesn't lie in the blocks and how they are cut for the most part. It's the mathematical precision and architectural knowledge that obviously went into it that puts the construction so far out of context for the time period it was supposed to have been built and what we know about the people living in that area at the time.

The "Holocene extinction" is no where near as extreme as the Younger Dryas event, it is a slow burn extinction and isn't predating in the same way. For some perspective, if the events that led to and ended the younger dryas were to happen again today, our civilization and probably well over half the population of humans on planet earth would go away almost overnight. The scariest part is that we still have no consensus as to the cause, although it's becoming more and more obvious as research on the topic continues that we have huge immediate threats in near earth space...and we're not really doing anything about it. Climate change is going to shift and change our civilization as a world society...another Younger Dryas is essentially the reset button, everything is gone and we're back in the proverbial stone age overnight.

So I completely understand the Holocene extinction ongoing...it isn't even worth mentioning in comparison to the Younger Dryas.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

To me Pumapunku in Bolivia beats them all. If there is proof of alien existence, this is it. How can a people with one foot in the 'stone age' and no language accomplish this? Masonry today can barely accomplish this.

Masonry easily accomplishes all that today.

I think what people forget about is how much time these people had to do this stuff. I bet many of these people dedicated their entire lives to building these monoliths. Doing it by hand would be extremely tedious for us these days because we have so many other responsibilities but if your food and water was taken care of and all you had to do was this stuff day in and day out, you could get a lot more done than you think. Especially once you become proficient at it.

 

[miaou]

I'm not sure how in depth you have looked at this subject matter, but it's literally all circumstantial evidence, especially for something like the building of who, when and why when it comes to the Great Pyramid. I'm happy to go into what little detail there is regarding why the Great Pyramid is attributed to Khufu, or why certain Mayan or Incan construction is attributed to them. To say it is "subjective" or "circumstantial" even in the "mainstream" opinion is putting it mildly.

That aside, and I'll just stick with Giza for now, the Great Pyramids mystery doesn't lie in the blocks and how they are cut for the most part. It's the mathematical precision and architectural knowledge that obviously went into it that puts the construction so far out of context for the time period it was supposed to have been built and what we know about the people living in that area at the time.

The "Holocene extinction" is no where near as extreme as the Younger Dryas event, it is a slow burn extinction and isn't predating in the same way. For some perspective, if the events that led to and ended the younger dryas were to happen again today, our civilization and probably well over half the population of humans on planet earth would go away almost overnight. The scariest part is that we still have no consensus as to the cause, although it's becoming more and more obvious as research on the topic continues that we have huge immediate threats in near earth space...and we're not really doing anything about it. Climate change is going to shift and change our civilization as a world society...another Younger Dryas is essentially the reset button, everything is gone and we're back in the proverbial stone age overnight.

So I completely understand the Holocene extinction ongoing...it isn't even worth mentioning in comparison to the Younger Dryas.

Sidestepping the extinction event talk (which I, and wikipedia, both think you are wrong about), you completely evaded my point.

My point is that large rocks with flat surfaces and holes drilled in them is not evidence for technology comparable to modern day. Seeing rocks and concluding modern-level technology is making subjective circumstantial inferences without any type of actual evidence.



This is what evidence of technology actually looks like:

12,000 BC:

5,000 BC:

2,000 BC:

100 BC (if you don't know what this is, read the wikipedia page):

Today:

 

[Phr3121]

How do you explain these ancient saw and drill marks?

Excellent video. Thank you. Exactly, how do you explain that? Going from a higher technology to a lower one. To me it leaves no doubt of alien involvement. And no, I don't think that is a big deal at all. Man cannot possibly be the only living being in the universe. The odds are against that.

 

[Phr3121]

Masonry easily accomplishes all that today.

Refer to post #160.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

Today I learned of the blue avian aliens by accident.
They seem like some advanced ... dudes.

But for real : very interesting topic.
In one of the best docu's on the building of these structures they talk about htis too.
It's called 'Revelation of the Pyramids'

 

[Cold187um]

Im mostly in the Graham Hancock camp that there were supremely advanced ancient civilzations that were erased from history during the Younger Dryas meteor impact that caused an enormous flood. Marine archeology is going to uncover some amazing things in the future.

 

[Cold187um]

These ancient super civilisations had realty poor planning when it came to wear to build all of their infrascture didn't they?

Our "super" civilization has the same problems, major coastal cities that will disappear in the case of a flood/fault line earthquake

 

[Green Poncho]

Semi-related, if I recall correctly the Sphinx had flood damage yeah? How high would the Nile had to have flooded to cause that?

 

[jimbob27]

I'm pretty sure stupid people in the future will think the Empire State Building and Burj Kalifa were built by aliens, considering the average human of these times lives in a crappy little 2 story building.

 

[andnowweknow]

Sidestepping the extinction event talk (which I, and wikipedia, both think you are wrong about), you completely evaded my point.

My point is that large rocks with flat surfaces and holes drilled in them is not evidence for technology comparable to modern day. Seeing rocks and concluding modern-level technology is making subjective circumstantial inferences without any type of actual evidence.



This is what evidence of technology actually looks like:

12,000 BC:

5,000 BC:

2,000 BC:

100 BC (if you don't know what this is, read the wikipedia page):

Today:

you don't have to sidestep anything regarding the extinction thing, I made my point pretty clear and one event fucked the world sideways in an instant, the other will rise sea level by a meter or so in the next 100 years. If you think the extinction of the megafauna at the end of the last ice age is less severe than human encroachment on ill adapted previously isolated species and corals we can agree to disagree.

A quote from from a government website, again, you don't understand what you are talking about on this end of the discussion, climate change now ain't shit...

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/abrupt-climate-change/The Younger Dryas

The Younger Dryas is one of the most well known examples of abrupt change. About 14,500 years ago, Earth's climate began to shift from a cold glacial world to a warmer interglacial state. Partway through this transition, temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere suddenly returned to near-glacial conditions. This near-glacial period is called the Younger Dryas, named after a flower (Dryas octopetala) that grows in cold conditions and that became common in Europe during this time. The end of the Younger Dryas, about 11,500 years ago, was particularly abrupt. In Greenland, temperatures rose 10°C (18°F) in a decade (Alley 2000 (link is external)). Other proxy records, including varved lake sediments in Europe, also display these abrupt shifts (Brauer et al. 2008 (link is external)).

I'm glad you found some examples of "technology" from different time periods, as if that is all representative of the world as a whole. There are still people living in the "stone age" today using the same shit you posted from 12k years.

I guess I can just leave the technology conversation at this. We could build the Great Pyramid today. It would be exceptionally difficult for us, we would need to produce new tools and new cranes to accomplish it and it would be the single most expensive single building construction project in recorded history. You know why there is no consensus on how it was built? Because nobody can figure out a way of doing it with the tools and "technology" available at the time.

There are different paths of technology. The great pyramid is the most accurately aligned building on the planet...STILL. The next most accurately aligned building to true north is the Paris observatory, which is 6/60ths of a degree off true north. The Great Pyramid is 3/60ths of a degree off true north, it's made of 2.3 million blocks of stones covering 14 acres of ground, there are perfectly formed rooms made out of red granite within it with blocks weighing up to 80 tons each assembled hundreds of feet up in the air within the structure, with the amount of stone in it you could build 30 Empire State buildings or build a wall 3 feet high and 1 feet high from from New York to LA.

The organization alone is almost unfathomable and it had absolutely zero to do with slavery, it was organized armies of, as someone already put it, Rembrandt level architects, masons, etc...building something that is almost impossible once you have fully studied what it is (which hundreds of the worlds smartest people have done for literally thousands of years)...yet there it is.

 

[miaou]

you don't have to sidestep anything regarding the extinction thing, I made my point pretty clear and one event fucked the world sideways in an instant, the other will rise sea level by a meter or so in the next 100 years. If you think the extinction of the megafauna at the end of the last ice age is less severe than human encroachment on ill adapted previously isolated species and corals we can agree to disagree.

A quote from from a government website, again, you don't understand what you are talking about on this end of the discussion, climate change now ain't shit...

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/abrupt-climate-change/The Younger Dryas

The Younger Dryas is one of the most well known examples of abrupt change. About 14,500 years ago, Earth's climate began to shift from a cold glacial world to a warmer interglacial state. Partway through this transition, temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere suddenly returned to near-glacial conditions. This near-glacial period is called the Younger Dryas, named after a flower (Dryas octopetala) that grows in cold conditions and that became common in Europe during this time. The end of the Younger Dryas, about 11,500 years ago, was particularly abrupt. In Greenland, temperatures rose 10°C (18°F) in a decade (Alley 2000 (link is external)). Other proxy records, including varved lake sediments in Europe, also display these abrupt shifts (Brauer et al. 2008 (link is external)).

I'm glad you found some examples of "technology" from different time periods, as if that is all representative of the world as a whole. There are still people living in the "stone age" today using the same shit you posted from 12k years.

I guess I can just leave the technology conversation at this. We could build the Great Pyramid today. It would be exceptionally difficult for us, we would need to produce new tools and new cranes to accomplish it and it would be the single most expensive single building construction project in recorded history. You know why there is no consensus on how it was built? Because nobody can figure out a way of doing it with the tools and "technology" available at the time.

There are different paths of technology. The great pyramid is the most accurately aligned building on the planet...STILL. The next most accurately aligned building to true north is the Paris observatory, which is 6/60ths of a degree off true north. The Great Pyramid is 3/60ths of a degree off true north, it's made of 2.3 million blocks of stones covering 14 acres of ground, there are perfectly formed rooms made out of red granite within it with blocks weighing up to 80 tons each assembled hundreds of feet up in the air within the structure, with the amount of stone in it you could build 30 Empire State buildings or build a wall 3 feet high and 1 feet high from from New York to LA.

The organization alone is almost unfathomable and it had absolutely zero to do with slavery, it was organized armies of, as someone already put it, Rembrandt level architects, masons, etc...building something that is almost impossible once you have fully studied what it is (which hundreds of the worlds smartest people have done for literally thousands of years)...yet there it is.

Mate, you need to relax.

You just posted three links, zero of which even mention the word "extinction", let alone describe how big it was, how long it took, or compare it to the (ongoing, man-caused) holocene extinction (which is classified as the 6th major mass extinction event; the 5th was 66 million years ago).

As for the pyramids, there are a bunch of plausible theories for how they could have been built with the technology available in the early Bronze Age. The reason "why there is no consensus on how it was built" is because there are no written records describing how it was built and therefore we cannot know for certain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt...n_techniques#NOVA_pyramid_building_experiment

 

[andnowweknow]

I guess it comes down to either them placing the stones first and building the rest of the temple after, or teleportation, then.


Yeah, since google and wikipedia don't that mention the dates are in question, I'm gonna go with circa 500 AD.

Btw, the wikipedia page also describes that how they worked the rocks: "Some of the stones are in an unfinished state, showing some of the techniques used to shape them. They were initially pounded by stone hammers, which can still be found in numbers on local andesite quarries, creating depressions, and then slowly ground and polished with flat stones and sand."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumapunku#Engineering



Surprisingly enough, Greeks could drill holes into rocks, too:

When it came to rocks, turns out they could do a bit more than drill holes and cut right corners to them:

The serapeum, where the boxes are, is underground. Just fyi.

 

[Badger67]

Semi-related, if I recall correctly the Sphinx had flood damage yeah? How high would the Nile had to have flooded to cause that?

Erosion from rain IIRC, which means Egypt would have been more lush.

 

[andnowweknow]

Mate, you need to relax.

You just posted three links, zero of which even mention the word "extinction", let alone describe how big it was, how long it took, or compare it to the (ongoing, man-caused) holocene extinction (which is classified as the 6th major mass extinction event; the 5th was 66 million years ago).

As for the pyramids, there are a bunch of plausible theories for how they could have been built with the technology available in the early Bronze Age. The reason "why there is no consensus on how it was built" is because there are no written records describing how it was built and therefore we cannot know for certain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt...n_techniques#NOVA_pyramid_building_experiment

There is no consensus on how they were built Khufu using the known toolset of the time because a.) It's impossible b.) every theory has obvious, admitted and major holes in them. They found non meteoritic iron in the great pyramid, perhaps instead of assuming they only had copper chisels ideas should be expanded. The tools used aren't there because of the time that has passed. Metal gets reappropriated or disappears.

Climate change is the reason for the Holocene extinction and is also part of the extinction associated with the megafaunal collapse at the end of the pleistocene. You're sticking to your guns on the wrong topic, but suit yourself.

Last

 

[andnowweknow]

Erosion from rain IIRC, which means Egypt would have been more lush.

The parabolic profile of the walls of the Sphinx enclosure is consistent with thousands of years of rainfall. This isnt really a debate amongst the majority of geologists who have examined the site. You have to go back to about 7k years ago to get the sort of heavy rainfall in the Nile valley you would need to erode limestone at any reasonably fast rate. That only means the Sphinx was there 7k years ago to be rained on...it could be much older than even that.

 

[Stranger Come Knocking]

Isn't the sphinx head recarved out of the original head?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Our "super" civilization has the same problems, major coastal cities that will disappear in the case of a flood/fault line earthquake

Plenty of infrastructure away from the coast.

 

[BLIND]

maybe with a bunch of slaves he could come up with something that could. he moved a 1 ton stone by himself. why couldnt a team of 10 move a 20 ton stone. or a team of 1000

Still makes it wildly impressive

 

[90 50]

The parabolic profile of the walls of the Sphinx enclosure is consistent with thousands of years of rainfall. This isnt really a debate amongst the majority of geologists who have examined the site. You have to go back to about 7k years ago to get the sort of heavy rainfall in the Nile valley you would need to erode limestone at any reasonably fast rate. That only means the Sphinx was there 7k years ago to be rained on...it could be much older than even that.

7k years ago is when that kind of rain ENDED in the region, you still need a period of a couple thousand years with that kind of rainfall for the eroision. Sphynx is at least 10k years old , probublay much much more.