An Executive Order that'll make a Democrat's Head Explode

[KILL KILL]

Well do not have to track anyone down. Why dof people keep repeating that nonsense?

Mandatory E-Verify. Huge penalties to anyone employing illegals. We can still have work visas. Guest worker programs... but WE call the shots. Problem solved... no rounding up anyone. If they cannot work, they'll go hone... or stay and commit crime. I am betting on the former.

So, I guess you are against what I proposed in my OP and there is no changing your mind?

-T

Yes, in your scenario "WE" call the shots, but "WE" also lose billions.

I read your OP and I do not believe the scenarios are the same. Again, it seems you are so intent on punishment, regardless of the negative repercussions. I provided a viable solution that would not only fix the problem, but allow us to profit instead of tanking the economy.

 

[T-Bone]

Yes, in your scenario "WE" call the shots, but "WE" also lose billions.

I read your OP and I do not believe the scenarios are the same. Again, it seems you are so intent on punishment, regardless of the negative repercussions. I provided a viable solution that would not only fix the problem, but allow us to profit instead of tanking the economy.

Remember when the restaurant owners said when states were going to outlaw smoking in restaurants? They said they were going to lose money. then they outlawed smoking in restaurants. And they did not lose any money. The restaurant were still full.

I'm an open-minded guy. Let's Do It My Way first. And if it fails, or if it is causing the economy, then we can try it your way.

Are you open to that?

-T

 

[KILL KILL]

Remember when the restaurant owners said when states were going to outlaw smoking in restaurants? They said they were going to lose money. then they outlawed smoking in restaurants. And they did not lose any money. The restaurant were still full.

I'm an open-minded guy. Let's Do It My Way first. And if it fails, or if it is causing the economy, then we can try it your way.

Are you open to that?

-T

That's a false analogy. States that simply cracked down a bit have already shown incredible losses. It's already proven. Did you read the articles I posted?

 

[T-Bone]

That's a false analogy. States that simply cracked down a bit have already shown incredible losses. It's already proven. Did you read the articles I posted?

What do you have to worry about? Try It My Way first. And then if we lose money and it damages the economy, we don't have to try my way anymore and we can try it your way. Are you open to yhat?

-T

 

[KILL KILL]

What do you have to worry about? Try It My Way first. And then if we lose money and it damages the economy, we don't have to try my way anymore and we can try it your way. Are you open to yhat?

-T

What do I have to worry about? Billions of dollars lost to the economy. Your way has been shown to be detrimental. It's not a question of "trying it out", it's already been done to a smaller degree, and the results were disastrous.

 

[Bloodworth]

Everyone wants to pay as little as possible and it doesnt really makes sense to have inflated prices on certain products.

Its similar to the tariffs arguments, some people are against, some people are for it.

The people that are against tend to see the value of low skilled well-paying jobs, the people that are for tend to see the value of low priced goods.

Cost associated with illegals, tend to be exacerbated by the illegal condition in the first place, as in turning an otherwise temporary worker into a permanent one.

I have this worker that works like a mule, its polite, punctual and honest, as smart as it gets for the kind of labor he performs and i pay him well, the dude also works in Canada under termporary work.

It a win for both Canada and Mexico, for once i get to profit from the guy for 8 months, Canada profits from the guy for 4 months, he gets to have his family living a Mexican cost of living while earning Canadian payments for a few months a year, Canada doesnt gets to deal with healthcare, pension or anything else, since the guy is happy to work temporarily and live here.

In America there are so many illegals sending cash out of the country it's about to be a big problem .
The government is looking into a tax that will take a % of any money send to a south American country.
You have a large % using infrastructure like roads and bridges, use hospitals and schools.
But never put back in the cookie jar.

Illegals have flipped America upside down.

 

[Rod1]

In America there are so many illegals sending cash out of the country it's about to be a big problem .
The government is looking into a tax that will take a % of any money send to a south American country.
You have a large % using infrastructure like roads and bridges, use hospitals and schools.
But never put back in the cookie jar.

Illegals have flipped America upside down.

America has more of a problem with an excess dollars coming inside of the country than the opposite.

 

[T-Bone]

This is this is what I do not understand. Nancy Pelosi was a prominent Democrat in Congress. Today, not so much. But she and her Democratic partners we're claiming that unemployment insurance benefits stimulate the economy and create jobs.

Assuming she is correct, let us look at taxpayers underpaying their taxes, and the administration, via the executive order, does not prosecute. Putting the money in the hands of the people that earned it is going to be spent and stimulate the economy... and create jobs. Just like Nancy Pelosi said it would because it is like a stimulus.

This is a win-win. Unless Nancy Pelosi was wrong?

-T

 

[Bloodworth]

America has more of a problem with an excess dollars coming inside of the country than the opposite.

Taxes are extremely high.
Infrastructure is in decay
Inflation is raising rapidly

If amErica has too much money coming in, why in so much debt to communist China

 

[T-Bone]

Taxes are extremely high.
Infrastructure is in decay
Inflation is raising rapidly

If amErica has too much money coming in, why in so much debt to communist China

Because he was full of crap when he made this statement?

What most of the country does not understand is we will become Greece in a few decades. We are all at the bar and we're putting all our drinks on our tab. We are having a good ol time with our friends. Laughing and drinking and singing and being stupid.

Eventually that party comes to an end then we have to pay the biLloyd.

Two-thirds of the budget was entitlements a short time ago. It's now projected to be 80 to 82% in a couple of years.

We can tax all of the rich people at a 100% tax rate. With no loopholes and no deductions. And if we did that for one year, we would still need to borrow money from China. That tells me we have a spending problem not a tax problem.

America is in sad shape financially. But nobody seems to care. They want to give money and benefits to those who put a drain on the economy. Every dollar that we give out that we don't need to, is a dollar extra that we have to borrow to make that payment.

-T

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Taxes are extremely high.
Infrastructure is in decay
Inflation is raising rapidly

If amErica has too much money coming in, why in so much debt to communist China

Because Reagan and Bush cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires but didn't cut spending?

 

[T-Bone]

Because Reagan and Bush cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires but didn't cut spending?

Oh my goodness. Sometimes I think the people do not know how government works.

Reagan entered into a deal with Congress. The president cannot cut spending. The Democratic Congress refused to cut spending. We created tens of millions of jobs under Reagan. Is it his fault or our fault that the Democratic Congress is money-grubbing and can't cut spending?

As for Bush 43, the GAO made a projection. They do this 10 years out in the future. All presidents rely on the projections. If the GAO projected a deficit of 1 trillion dollars over 10 years, Congress probably would have voted to raise taxes. But that did not happen. They projected a surplus of 1 trillion dollars over 10 years.

What does a surplus of 1 trillion dollars mean? It means you're taking one trillion dollars out of the hands of the people that are in the money and are more able to spend it then the government. Everyone agreed taking more than you needed from the people was bad. Bad tax policy. The Democrats wanted to spend the money. Bush 43 got the money back to the people. After all, it was their money that the government was taking and they were taking too much.

The Reagan presidency, following the Carter Administration, gave us unprecedented growth. We had a lot of growth under Clinton too. But these are different times and the techniques we use back then it won't work today.

Even though the top tax rate is close to 40% or 44%, we are still hurting. We don't have a tax problem. We have a spending problem. We have way too many people draining the economy. That's why entitlements are almost 82%.

-T

 

[kahiljabroni]

Debating how we are going to handle those here is a moot point until we actually stop the flow.

 

[Rod1]

Taxes are extremely high.
Infrastructure is in decay
Inflation is raising rapidly

If amErica has too much money coming in, why in so much debt to communist China

1.- Extremely low you mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

US government revenue as percentage of GDP is about 1/4th of GDP as opposed to almost 1/3rd for the European union average and 3/8s for the european large economies.

2.- But you got the most well funded military in the world, i wonder how many infrastructure projects could had been funded with the 4-6 trillion estimated cost of the iraq and afghanistn war will end up costing.

3.- WTF are you talking about the US is in big risk of entering deflation right now.

4.- Because America and the American government are 2 different things, if the US government managed to garnish taxes as efficiently as their european counterparts there wouldnt be any need to borrow from China.

5.- Also borrowing from China is a misnomer, the US borrows from itself, China just uses American dollars they gained in international trade to buy US bonds denominated in US dollars that the same government prints, its a fucking scam.

 

[T-Bone]

You know what is amazing to me? The Affordable Care Act. The administration knew, as did insurance companies, that you need a large base of healthy people paying into the system so they have money to pay the claims of the sick people.

When it comes to the country, that idea that is so important to make health care for everyone succeed, is abandoned. In other words, we need a large pool of taxpayers, so we have the money to pay the welfare and Medicaid and Social Security, VA benrfuts, etc, to those people that need it.

Too many sick people in an insurance plan causes the insurance plan providers to raise money. Or cut the sick people.

When it comes to the government tax payer system, the government is simply fine with having more and more people pull out of the system than paying into it. That's why entitlements are approaching 82% of the budget. When it hits 100%, there's nothing left.

-T

 

[xcvbn]

Few points:

1. They're breaking a law by entering and staying in this country without going through the legal immigration process. They must be held accountable, so long as we take a reasonable approach that won't be too costly(legalizing a certain plant should free up some manpower/money).

2. Oddly enough nobody talks about punishing those who provide the incentive for illegal immigration in the first place.
How about a mandatory minimum for the owner and anyone directly involved in the hiring process of 5 years per illegal hire? Plus they pay every cent of the deportation process and a heavy fine for each hired illegal.

3. So many people have this insane idea that somehow these 11 million people cause our country such great strife. They direct all this anger and hatred at people simply taking advantage of the US governments failure to punish employers of illegal hiring but they hardly talk about those who give the incentive. Furthermore, they bitch and moan about how this very low skilled, low wage segment of the population is somehow a huge drain on the economy- do you want to know who's a huge drain on this economy? The ones who pay virtually nothing in taxes while raking in millions or billions(Apple's 2.5% tax rate on $160BIL profit), and many of these corporate cocksuckers are the ones quickest to outsource.


Trump/Sanders 2016

 

[T-Bone]

Few points:

1. They're breaking a law by entering and staying in this country without going through the legal immigration process. They must be held accountable, so long as we take a reasonable approach that won't be too costly(legalizing a certain plant should free up some manpower/money).

2. Oddly enough nobody talks about punishing those who provide the incentive for illegal immigration in the first place.
How about a mandatory minimum for the owner and anyone directly involved in the hiring process of 5 years per illegal hire? Plus they pay every cent of the deportation process and a heavy fine for each hired illegal.

3. So many people have this insane idea that somehow these 11 million people cause our country such great strife. They direct all this anger and hatred at people simply taking advantage of the US governments failure to punish employers of illegal hiring but they hardly talk about those who give the incentive. Furthermore, they bitch and moan about how this very low skilled, low wage segment of the population is somehow a huge drain on the economy- do you want to know who's a huge drain on this economy? The ones who pay virtually nothing in taxes while raking in millions or billions(Apple's 2.5% tax rate on $160BIL profit), and many of these corporate cocksuckers are the ones quickest to outsource.


Trump/Sanders 2016

You had me up until number 3.

They have studies that clearly indicate the disadvantages and the costs incurred with illegal immigrants in certain segments. Sigmon's meaning Workforce segments or physical areas within a state.

What Democrats will tell you is make them legal. The problem with that is then they can file tax returns. And qualify for earned income tax credit. And then a family that is illegal will get thousands and thousands of dollars back each year on their tax return. Getting 10 times more back than what they paid in. It's essentially welfare.


-T

 

[xcvbn]

You had me up until number 3.

They have studies that clearly indicate the disadvantages and the costs incurred with illegal immigrants in certain segments. Sigmon's meaning Workforce segments or physical areas within a state.

What Democrats will tell you is make them legal. The problem with that is then they can file tax returns. And qualify for earned income tax credit. And then a family that is illegal will get thousands and thousands of dollars back each year on their tax return. Getting 10 times more back than what they paid in. It's essentially welfare.


-T

I'm not saying it's nothing. What I'm saying is that the cost is overblown compared to corporations like Apple and people like Trump who are very good at using existing tax law to pay virtually nothing in taxes on hundreds of millions to hundreds of billions in profit. Meanwhile, people like me and others I know who don't have the means or know-how to lower our effective tax rate are stuck giving up nearly half of our income towards state tax, sales tax, social security tax, federal tax, and all the fees like DMV and other use taxes in order to fuel the neo-con war chest and the liberal entitlement programs.

It's a shame people are so quick to demonize and solely place blame on just one part of the problem. Especially when that one part isn't even the worst.

T-Bone, I know you mean well in your over the top triumph toward shitting on illegal people, but open your mind up a bit and let that hatred out on the other parts of the problem. Otherwise it's difficult to take you seriously as you seem to be caught up in the Republican vs Democrat rip current. Both parties sponsor legislation that suits themselves and those who fund their campaigns. Again, I'll point toward employers who will obviously disregard the "punishments" against hiring illegal workers. Surely, when both parties agreed to these "punishments" I'm sure their biggest rationale was to combat what is a serious fucking violation of law in illegally entering the United States.

Below I'll quote the Criminal and Civil penalties of section of U.S. Code 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens

(4)Cease and desist order with civil money penalty for hiring, recruiting, and referral violationsWith respect to a violation of subsection (a)(1)(A) or (a)(2), the order under this subsection—
(A)shall require the person or entity to cease and desist from such violations and to pay a civil penalty in an amount of—
(i)
not less than $250 and not more than $2,000 for each unauthorized alien with respect to whom a violation of either such subsection occurred,
(ii)
not less than $2,000 and not more than $5,000 for each such alien in the case of a person or entity previously subject to one order under this paragraph, or
(iii)
not less than $3,000 and not more than $10,000 for each such alien in the case of a person or entity previously subject to more than one order under this paragraph


(f)Criminal penalties and injunctions for pattern or practice violations
(1)Criminal penalty

Any person or entity which engages in a pattern or practice of violations of subsection (a)(1)(A) or (a)(2) shall be fined not more than $3,000 for each unauthorized alien with respect to whom such a violation occurs, imprisoned for not more than six months for the entire pattern or practice, or both, notwithstanding the provisions of any other Federal law relating to fine levels.

The laws against hiring illegals is absolutely laughable. First off, the fine doesn't even come close to what it would have cost the employers had they hired these people legally. Secondly, in order for the employers to be found criminally responsible they must show a pattern of illegal employment. And even then the most they are imprisoned for is 6 months. Man, that's one hell of a deterrent . Now consider that these are the very people giving the most incentive for people to enter this country illegally in the first place.