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Opinion Americans Not Loyal to America

Cooks is saying that many Countries dont display the level of "patriotism" we do, and thought I havent lived outside the US, I do work with people from all over the World. They think our absolute need to consistently demonstrate our devotion is weird.
That's pretty much it. And the other thing I am saying is that if you look around the world at the other places that have the same kind of obsession about this that we do, you will not find a single first world democracy among them. But you will find a LOT of authoritarian regimes and places that treat their own people really, really shittily.
 
I'm against animal cruelty. I wasn't a van of Michael Vick.


In the case of the "Irish" guy I knew, he never been to Ireland but talked about how great it is over there. I'm sure Ireland is great but it's kind of funny to hear from someone who's lived their whole life in America.
- Brazilians leftists cant find their own nose on a anatomy chart, but they talk hjow great Cuba is.
 
I think there is a difference between wanting to see your new country be better and do better, and just trashing it and saying how awful things are. It's a very fine line, but there is a difference.

If people have the intention of making the country better and improving things for everyone, I think that is acceptable.

Shitting on your new country - including its customs, ideals and traditions - just to shit on it because its not what you grew up with is something altogether different IMO.

If America is such a shit hole, why are they here? It's a valid question. Respect and improve, but don't denigrate and demean.
We don't have freedom of speech so we can talk about the weather, it's so people can say things that are controversial.
 
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So you don‘t think it‘s reprehensible behavior to criticise the country you moved to in this very context, whereby the the person in question is vocal about her allegiance to another country?

Let me guess, you are one of those people to whom allegiance has no meaning, and foreigners are morally free to talk shit all they want about the country they moved to, because of free speech and because you „are the bigger man“ or something similar?

You don‘t even need to try to convince me, like I won‘t try to convince you. Just laying out respective positions here. From my perspective, their is a fine line between being a foreign agitator and what this woman is doing. And I do not think that foreign agitators should be tolerated anywhere, they should be escorted to the border.
Criticizing the country is obviously covered under free speech even if it's bad faith or otherwise uncouth. It's pretty insane to suggest people should be deported for uttering protected speech but in fairness come Jan 20th we'll have a president in office who, more than any in recent memory, would be willing to make that a reality.
 
We don't have freedom of speech so we can talk about the weather, it's so people can say things that are controversial.

There is a difference between controversial and disrespectful. I have said multiple times that people can say whatever they want, I just think its important for immigrants to show gratitude and respect for the country that took them in. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that thought whatsoever and it is not censoring anyone. It's just in good taste.
 
There is a difference between controversial and disrespectful. I have said multiple times that people can say whatever they want, I just think its important for immigrants to show gratitude and respect for the country that took them in. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that thought whatsoever and it is not censoring anyone. It's just in good taste.
This kind of makes it seem like showing gratitude (whatever that means) is conditional to living somewhere. It's already weird AF to me that humans think they can dictate where other humans live, but suggesting that there has to always be this air of gratitude from immigrants is weirder to me. It goes back to lessons of merit. As a Father and Coach, I try to teach my Sons and students to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because you're gonna get something back from it. If an immigrant Family moves in next door and I want them to love the US, I don't start by gauging their sense of gratitude, or taking exception if they hang a different flag or speak their native language. I do it by being welcoming, helping if they need it, just being nice. Like Walter had to learn:

 
Saudi First, MSGA!
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This kind of makes it seem like showing gratitude (whatever that means) is conditional to living somewhere. It's already weird AF to me that humans think they can dictate where other humans live, but suggesting that there has to always be this air of gratitude from immigrants is weirder to me. It goes back to lessons of merit. As a Father and Coach, I try to teach my Sons and students to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because you're gonna get something back from it. If an immigrant Family moves in next door and I want them to love the US, I don't start by gauging their sense of gratitude, or taking exception if they hang a different flag or speak their native language. I do it by being welcoming, helping if they need it, just being nice. Like Walter had to learn:



I never said I would treat them differently. I don’t think they should be here if they hate my country, but I am not going to treat them differently. You are making it seem like I’d spit on them and not help them if they were my neighbor lol - I never said I wouldn’t be welcoming or help them. You are making things up.

Asking them to be respectful is not some evil thing that you are trying to make it out to be.

I’ve said this already, but say you are traveling to a different country. Do you tell the people there that their country sucks and is backwards and that your home country is so much better? No, I didn’t think so. You are respectful, right? Now.. what is so hard to accept about that? LOL
 
I never said I would treat them differently. I don’t think they should be here if they hate my country, but I am not going to treat them differently. You are making it seem like I’d spit on them and not help them if they were my neighbor lol - I never said I wouldn’t be welcoming or help them. You are making things up.

Asking them to be respectful is not some evil thing that you are trying to make it out to be.

I’ve said this already, but say you are traveling to a different country. Do you tell the people there that their country sucks and is backwards and that your home country is so much better? No, I didn’t think so. You are respectful, right? Now.. what is so hard to accept about that? LOL
It's not even about being respectful......just not being disrespectful would suffice. But in all honestly, that's something Americans need far more work on than our immigrant friends. Most immigrants just put their heads down and get to it. Americans are probably not THE MOST arrogant and disrespectful people on the planet, but boy we are up there. And we are often just as if not even more disrespectful with each other than immigrants. Millions of Americans out there consider it an act of patriotism to be as big a douche as possible and even lie. After all, lying is free speech unless it's defamation or in a court of law. Both 'sides' are participating in this and it's not healthy for anyone.
 
It's not even about being respectful......just not being disrespectful would suffice. But in all honestly, that's something Americans need far more work on than our immigrant friends. Most immigrants just put their heads down and get to it. Americans are probably not THE MOST arrogant and disrespectful people on the planet, but boy we are up there. And we are often just as if not even more disrespectful with each other than immigrants. Millions of Americans out there consider it an act of patriotism to be as big a douche as possible and even lie. After all, lying is free speech unless it's defamation or in a court of law. Both 'sides' are participating in this and it's not healthy for anyone.

Agreed - I have a problem with Americans being disrespectful as well. Not debating that whatsoever.

To me, immigrants being disrespectful is worse though because they don't even have to be here. People who are born here did not have a choice and were not admitted by the US. Immigrants were.

I think both should show more respect and be grateful, though. There are a lot worse countries to be in the world. That is not being an exceptionalist at all - it's the fucking truth LOL
 
A while back, I was seeing this woman who migrated from Peru to the US when she was in her early teens, became naturalized, went to college in the States, worked abroad as an English teacher (thanks to her US passport), and was preparing to apply for some job working for the US state department. To me, her story sounded like a success story of a poor immigrant who was able to make it in America. But she was a woke social justice warrior who complained about how America is racist and sexist, which sounds like every other American woman. When talking about "her country," she talks about Peru, despite now speaking English better than Spanish. Despite her having American citizenship, having had opportunities thanks to America, and was looking to work in the US Government, she still said she is loyal to "her country" of Peru. This seems like a contradiction in values to me.

Now I have no personal dog in this fight, but I find it funny that immigrants who willingly move to another country and become naturalized to reap the benefits are still patriotic to their "home country" instead of being grateful for the new opportunities. This cognitive dissonance must create some sort of unhappiness on a personal level for these individuals. I also think the US government should do a better job of vetting people and seeing where their loyalties lie.

I don't mean to rag on immigrants only. I met people like who were born in the US as well. I once knew a guy of Irish ancestry who hated American and always talked about how he's Irish and was going to move to Ireland even though he's never been there before.
Yeah this is not uncommon, I'm an immigrant myself and I'm ashamed to say that I had this childish mentality for a minute back in my late teens or early 20's, but fortunately I wised up and grew out of it.

My mentality today is anyone coming to live or visit any other country should look to assimilate and embrace that countries culture and values or get the fuck out and go back where they came from.
 
Agreed - I have a problem with Americans being disrespectful as well. Not debating that whatsoever.

To me, immigrants being disrespectful is worse though because they don't even have to be here. People who are born here did not have a choice and were not admitted by the US. Immigrants were.

I think both should show more respect and be grateful, though. There are a lot worse countries to be in the world. That is not being an exceptionalist at all - it's the fucking truth LOL
You bet there are worse places to be. People like to bitch, but there is a reason so many come.

But you see..........to me...........the American disrespect is far worse.....Think about what most immigrants go through just to get here. I know something about this. I lived in Scotland for 10 years and my wife (now a US citizen) was Scottish. I know about the years (not weeks or months) and the thousands of $ it took just to get my own wife here legally. And the ones coming illegally take even greater risks. I know of the hurdles and effort my wife went through to become an American citizen. And I'll tell you this- My wife deserves to be an American Citizen more.....way more than any American gifted citizenship at birth. Why? Because it meant more to her and she had to earn it. Like virtually every natural born American citizen, I took my citizenship for granted. It was not until I got a birds eye view of someone busting their ass to earn something I got for free that I really appreciated it. WE SHOULD BE THE GRATEFUL ONES. WE SHOULD BE THE RESPECTFUL ONES. WHY? BECAUSE WE ARE THE LUCKY ONES. Because we are the Paris fucking Hilton's of global citizenship. We were gifted by blind luck that which so many work so hard and sacrifice so much just to get a piece of. And we behave towards our citizenship in a similar fashion as a young Paris Hilton did to her billionaire birthright.

I would be delighted if everyone had to earn their citizenship. I think it would solve a lot of our problems.
 
You bet there are worse places to be. People like to bitch, but there is a reason so many come.

But you see..........to me...........the American disrespect is far worse.....Think about what most immigrants go through just to get here. I know something about this. I lived in Scotland for 10 years and my wife (now a US citizen) was Scottish. I know about the years (not weeks or months) and the thousands of $ it took just to get my own wife here legally. And the ones coming illegally take even greater risks. I know of the hurdles and effort my wife went through to become an American citizen. And I'll tell you this- My wife deserves to be an American Citizen more.....way more than any American born here. Why? Because it meant more to her and she had to earn it. Like virtually every natural born American citizen, I took my citizenship for granted. It was not until I got a birds eye view of someone busting their ass to earn something I got for free that I really appreciated it. WE SHOULD BE THE GRATEFUL ONES. WE SHOULD BE THE RESPECTFUL ONES. WHY? BECAUSE WE ARE THE LUCKY ONES. Because we are the Paris fucking Hilton's of global citizenship. We were gifted by blind luck that which so many work so hard and sacrifice so much just to get a piece of. And we behave towards our citizenship in a similar fashion as a young Paris Hilton did to her billionaire birthright.

I would be delighted if everyone had to earn their citizenship. I think it would solve a lot of our problems.

Our opinions are not that far off. Definitely not making excuses for Americans who do it too.

That's not to say that people shouldn't be allowed to.. free speech and all that.. I just think it's in very poor taste and shows a lack of understanding of where you are in the world.
 
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There is a difference between controversial and disrespectful. I have said multiple times that people can say whatever they want, I just think its important for immigrants to show gratitude and respect for the country that took them in. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that thought whatsoever and it is not censoring anyone. It's just in good taste.
Should the gratitude go both ways given the immigrants come here and contribute to our economy, in many cases working jobs Americans won't or can't?
 
Yeah this is not uncommon, I'm an immigrant myself and I'm ashamed to say that I had this childish mentality for a minute back in my late teens or early 20's, but fortunately I wised up and grew out of it.

My mentality today is anyone coming to live or visit any other country should look to assimilate and embrace that countries culture and values or get the fuck out and go back where they came from.
Lol@living in a different Country should require an abandonment of culture.
 
Lol@living in a different Country should require an abandonment of culture.
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No, bro. Keep the 3rd world culture, put a cultural wall up, don't ingratiate yourself to the surrounding community, but get ALL the benefits. Sounds like a great future for the country.
 
<36>


No, bro. Keep the 3rd world culture, put a cultural wall up, don't ingratiate yourself to the surrounding community, but get ALL the benefits. Sounds like a great future for the country.
I'm sorry you hate cultures that arent your own, Bro.
 
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