Opinion Americans Not Loyal to America

[Fergelmince]

I'm sorry you hate cultures that arent your own, Bro.

that's not what I said at all, but it doesn't surprise me that you would purposely misinterpret it to fit your world view. I'm sorry you hate your own culture, bruh, but maybe you can get some help.

'I Hate Myself': 8 Ways to Combat Self-Hatred

Are you having the thought, "I hate myself"? If so, here are 8 coping strategies you can use to combat self-hatred, other signs and symptoms, and possible causes.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Normal for all immigrants everywhere and it’s usually the first and second generation.

When the 4th are raised by their assimilated 3rd generation family, they usually lose their native identity. The nationalistic first gen died off and second are in their deathbed so they don’t have anyone to tell them how great our motherland is.

Great point and very true.

Immigration has been studied and continues to be studied so we have data on all of this. And what the data shows is that the current immigrants assimilate just as fast as the previous, "good" (aka, white) immigrants.

A huge study done by the National Academy of Sciences with the top immigration scholars in the country showed this. It's paywalled but if you can get around it, it's a great read:

Newest Immigrants Assimilating as Fast as Previous Ones, Report Says (Published 2015)

The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine says immigrants are eager to learn English and are not burdening the health care system.

www.nytimes.com

I've been sharing this link in the WR for about a decade anytime this subject comes up. Rightists have been ignoring it for a decade as well.

 

[Sinister]

that's not what I said at all, but it doesn't surprise me that you would purposely misinterpret it to fit your world view. I'm sorry you hate your own culture, bruh, but maybe you can get some help.

'I Hate Myself': 8 Ways to Combat Self-Hatred

Are you having the thought, "I hate myself"? If so, here are 8 coping strategies you can use to combat self-hatred, other signs and symptoms, and possible causes.

www.verywellmind.com

You dont have to say "I hate cultures that arent my own" to be transparent in how you spoke of those cultures. But backpedaling from your own disdain is telling enough. Being appreciative of other cultures doesnt constitute hatred of one's own, bruh.

 

[Sinister]

It‘s interesting that the posters ITT who are pretty vocally siding with the ungrateful immigrants are also the usual ones pushing all leftist talking points in other threads.

That would be due to the fact that egalitarianism means you don't require other people making you feel good about yourself or where you're from to do the right thing by them. I mean many of us have said that people will be "grateful" based on how they're treated, not that someone merely opened a door to another place where they can still be treated like sh*t. Rightists continuously bellow about how basically any immigrants should just be happy to be here, and accepting of whatever treatment they encounter or benefits that are denied to them so that the tiered society is maintained. "Real Americans" deserve more, or priority, everyone else is lower.

 

[Fergelmince]

You dont have to say "I hate cultures that arent my own" to be transparent in how you spoke of those cultures. But backpedaling from your own disdain is telling enough. Being appreciative of other cultures doesnt constitute hatred of one's own, bruh.

But you do hate yourself and the country in which you reside. Its 100% apparent from your posts over the years. You just want to twist your self hating world view in to some kind of deranged virtue signalling to absolve yourself of guilt.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

That would be due to the fact that egalitarianism means you don't require other people making you feel good about yourself or where you're from to do the right thing by them. I mean many of us have said that people will be "grateful" based on how they're treated, not that someone merely opened a door to another place where they can still be treated like sh*t. Rightists continuously bellow about how basically any immigrants should just be happy to be here, and accepting of whatever treatment they encounter or benefits that are denied to them so that the tiered society is maintained. "Real Americans" deserve more, or priority, everyone else is lower.

Listen I dislike your world views but I respect you from the standup forum and as an estabished boxing coach. So let‘s just leave it at that. Cheers bro.

 

[Andy Capp]

That would be due to the fact that egalitarianism means you don't require other people making you feel good about yourself or where you're from to do the right thing by them. I mean many of us have said that people will be "grateful" based on how they're treated, not that someone merely opened a door to another place where they can still be treated like sh*t. Rightists continuously bellow about how basically any immigrants should just be happy to be here, and accepting of whatever treatment they encounter or benefits that are denied to them so that the tiered society is maintained. "Real Americans" deserve more, or priority, everyone else is lower.

Indeed, "You'll take what we give you and like it. Now, show us some gratitude."

 

[Koro_11]

Lol@living in a different Country should require an abandonment of culture.

In certain cases yes they most definitely should.

Fortunately for me my birth country's culture is not so different from North American culture, so there was not much to abandon.

But if you come from a place where your culture is to kill your daughter if she happens to get raped, then yeah you need to abandon that shit the second you cross the border.... or do you disagree?

 

[Sinister]

In certain cases yes they most definitely should.

Fortunately for me my birth country's culture is not so different from North American culture, so there was not much to abandon.

But if you come from a place where your culture is to kill your daughter if she happens to get raped, then yeah you need to abandon that shit the second you cross the border.... or do you disagree?

Are we taking religious extremists and painting them as an entire culture so we can require assimilation of people who DON'T feel that way wanting to escape that sh*t?

Do we want to start discussing Christian extremism and painting every Country with "good Judeo-Christian values" by that same standard? Some of our States just passed laws that require children to give birth to their rapists babies, if you wanna go that route. And if that childbirth kills them...oh f*ckin well.

 

[Koro_11]

Are we taking religious extremists and painting them as an entire culture so we can require assimilation of people who DON'T feel that way wanting to escape that sh*t?

Do we want to start discussing Christian extremism and painting every Country with "good Judeo-Christian values" by that same standard? Some of our States just passed laws that require children to give birth to their rapists babies, if you wanna go that route. And if that childbirth kills them...oh f*ckin well.

Are we getting into whataboutism now?

I named one extreme example off the top of my head, and right away you go into the "what about Christianity" response. If you need someone to explain to you why one imperfect set of values is still light years better than another then you're pretty hopeless.

As for culture, my position is pretty straight forward, if you fled some country and came to what you believe is a better country, whether economically, whether in terms of safety, or your children's future, or all of the above, then you should embrace the country that has given you this opportunity and not try to make it into the shithole you fled.

You can keep certain aspects of your culture that are compatible with the country you now live in, and yes you should abandon the parts that are not.

 

[Sinister]

Are we getting into whataboutism now?

I named one extreme example off the top of my head, and right away you go into the "what about Christianity" response. If you need someone to explain to you why one imperfect set of values is still light years better than another then you're pretty hopeless.

As for culture, my position is pretty straight forward, if you fled some country and came to what you believe is a better country, whether economically, whether in terms of safety, or your children's future, or all of the above, then you should embrace the country that has given you this opportunity and not try to make it into the shithole you fled.

You can keep certain aspects of your culture that are compatible with the country you now live in, and yes you should abandon the parts that are not.

Pointing out hypocrisy that you dont want to grapple with isnt merely "whataboutism." And comparison is a normal response you're going to get when you make a vague point about...someone. I just took it you were probably talking about Muslims and its looking like I was right. If you're going to paint every Muslim as the same as the most extreme among them, then you're going to have to contend with the same sh*t that happens in Western Countries. Especially when we consider HOW people who pursue power got radicalized in places where interventionism and imperialism has never stopped.

I just dont think you have this same standard for Westerners who live abroad for better economic opportunities. There are millions of them. And hell, millions of them are also living where they're living "illegally." They're just in a place without a political climate of putting resources into getting rid of them so they'll feel more secure somehow.

 

[Koro_11]

Pointing out hypocrisy that you dont want to grapple with isnt merely "whataboutism." And comparison is a normal response you're going to get when you make a vague point about...someone. I just took it you were probably talking about Muslims and its looking like I was right. If you're going to paint every Muslim as the same as the most extreme among them, then you're going to have to contend with the same sh*t that happens in Western Countries. Especially when we consider HOW people who pursue power got radicalized in places where interventionism and imperialism has never stopped.

I just dont think you have this same standard for Westerners who live abroad for better economic opportunities. There are millions of them. And hell, millions of them are also living where they're living "illegally." They're just in a place without a political climate of putting resources into getting rid of them so they'll feel more secure somehow.

Nowhere did I claim "every" Muslim, I used a random extreme example that is practised only in Muslim countries. So not all Muslims do it, but it's only Muslims that do it. And your argument about "shit also happens in western countries" is completely nonsensical. Like I said, you can have two situations that are not perfect, but still acknowledge that one is much better than the other. Like you can get a flat tire on the way to work and yeah that sucks... but you could also have a head on collision and that sucks a whole lot more, to the point where the two are just not comparable. Imagine some guy rolling up in a wheel chair telling you he just had a head on collision and lost his entire family that was in the car with him, and you respond with "well I just got a flat tire this morning".

As for westerners that chose to live abroad, I hold them to the same standards. If you're an American that decides to live in China or Zimbabwe or wherever, then yes I would tell you the same fucken thing, embrace the culture and values of the place you're in or get out.

 

[UFCUCF]

A while back, I was seeing this woman who migrated from Peru to the US when she was in her early teens, became naturalized, went to college in the States, worked abroad as an English teacher (thanks to her US passport), and was preparing to apply for some job working for the US state department. To me, her story sounded like a success story of a poor immigrant who was able to make it in America. But she was a woke social justice warrior who complained about how America is racist and sexist, which sounds like every other American woman. When talking about "her country," she talks about Peru, despite now speaking English better than Spanish. Despite her having American citizenship, having had opportunities thanks to America, and was looking to work in the US Government, she still said she is loyal to "her country" of Peru. This seems like a contradiction in values to me.

Now I have no personal dog in this fight, but I find it funny that immigrants who willingly move to another country and become naturalized to reap the benefits are still patriotic to their "home country" instead of being grateful for the new opportunities. This cognitive dissonance must create some sort of unhappiness on a personal level for these individuals. I also think the US government should do a better job of vetting people and seeing where their loyalties lie.

I don't mean to rag on immigrants only. I met people like who were born in the US as well. I once knew a guy of Irish ancestry who hated American and always talked about how he's Irish and was going to move to Ireland even though he's never been there

The contradiction with American values lies in the opinion expressed in the original post, not in the behavior of the naturalized citizen the post is about.

America is a strong country. Criticism of the government is protected by our very First Amendment. The disinfecting light of criticism in the marketplace of ideas, whether from natural-born or naturalized citizens, makes the country stronger, not weaker. If the criticism is accurate, agree with it. If the criticism is misguided, refute it. To negate criticism because of how someone became a citizen is weak, and-hoc, and snowflakey.

It is also not supported by the Constitution. This approach tries to create classes of citizenship—where these citizens can criticize the government because they were born here, but those other citizens must stay silent because they were naturalized. In your world, do we all carry citizenship papers to determine who gets First Amendment rights and who doesn’t?

Do we later get to single out other groups of citizens and take some of their rights away because their citizenship is “less American” than some other types of citizenship in other ways?

Let’s say we have a Cuban born naturalized citizen who is critical of what he thinks is a gun grabbing leftist U.S. government that he says doesn’t understand tyranny. This opinion is as valuable as our lady Peruvian social justice warrior. Both, as U.S. citizens, get to express that without having to pass some extra bonus citizenship test to protect your feelings.

 

[Andy Capp]

The contradiction with American values lies in the opinion expressed in the original post, not in the behavior of the naturalized citizen the post is about.

America is a strong country. Criticism of the government is protected by our very First Amendment. The disinfecting light of criticism in the marketplace of ideas, whether from natural-born or naturalized citizens, makes the country stronger, not weaker. If the criticism is accurate, agree with it. If the criticism is misguided, refute it. To negate criticism because of how someone became a citizen is weak, and-hoc, and snowflakey.

It is also not supported by the Constitution. This approach tries to create classes of citizenship—where these citizens can criticize the government because they were born here, but those other citizens must stay silent because they were naturalized. In your world, do we all carry citizenship papers to determine who gets First Amendment rights and who doesn’t?

Do we later get to single out other groups of citizens and take some of their rights away because their citizenship is “less American” than some other types of citizenship in other ways?

Let’s say we have a Cuban born naturalized citizen who is critical of what he thinks is a gun grabbing leftist U.S. government that he says doesn’t understand tyranny. This opinion is as valuable as our lady Peruvian social justice warrior. Both, as U.S. citizens, get to express that without having to pass some extra bonus citizenship test to protect your feelings.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Indeed, "You'll take what we give you and like it. Now, show us some gratitude."

That's exactly how immigrants to the UK should be treated.

 

[USA!USA!]

The contradiction with American values lies in the opinion expressed in the original post, not in the behavior of the naturalized citizen the post is about.

America is a strong country. Criticism of the government is protected by our very First Amendment. The disinfecting light of criticism in the marketplace of ideas, whether from natural-born or naturalized citizens, makes the country stronger, not weaker. If the criticism is accurate, agree with it. If the criticism is misguided, refute it. To negate criticism because of how someone became a citizen is weak, and-hoc, and snowflakey.

It is also not supported by the Constitution. This approach tries to create classes of citizenship—where these citizens can criticize the government because they were born here, but those other citizens must stay silent because they were naturalized. In your world, do we all carry citizenship papers to determine who gets First Amendment rights and who doesn’t?

Do we later get to single out other groups of citizens and take some of their rights away because their citizenship is “less American” than some other types of citizenship in other ways?

Let’s say we have a Cuban born naturalized citizen who is critical of what he thinks is a gun grabbing leftist U.S. government that he says doesn’t understand tyranny. This opinion is as valuable as our lady Peruvian social justice warrior. Both, as U.S. citizens, get to express that without having to pass some extra bonus citizenship test to protect your feelings.

I agree with a lot of what you said, I would just make a distinction that there is a difference between legitimate criticism with cogent arguments on how to improve society or culture, and rude & disparaging insults with no intention of cohesive improvement.

I'd like to think that the majority of people (not all, of course.. that is never the case) are perfectly fine with legitimate criticism and thoughts on how to improve the country. We may disagree, but people providing legitimate ideas is never a bad thing. If someone has a good idea, I couldn't care less if they are an immigrant.

However, it is a lot harder to overlook someone rudely disparaging my country for no reason other than they do not like us as a country and people, after they have been welcomed and taken in to our community already.

There is 100% a difference, would you not agree?

 

[Cid]

Being loyal only to yourself is American as fuck TS.

 

[White Whale]

Mitt Romney said the reason they are banning TikTok because it gives bad PR to Isreal.

 

[Andy Capp]

Mitt Romney said the reason they are banning TikTok because it gives bad PR to Isreal.

LOL the text says "a reason" and of course you have to change that to "the reason" because you are a troll and not worth a fuck.


Do you find it hard to spend your pay when it's in rubles?

 

[MacGregor]