Alternative Pyramid Theories

[Agent Mulder's Hair]

The theory is retarded on so many levels. For example, how come they only developed super technology to create giant ceremonial buildings with no purpose? Were is the evidence of advanced weapons or other aspects of their society?

You really think the pyramids had no purpose?

 

[DoomPatrol]

Why is the concept of losing knowledge over time so hard for you to believe? It happens all the time. If you found a Marconi machine, would you know how to operate it? Would you even know what it was? Or even more recently, would kids today know what to do if they had a cassette tape and it unspooled? Would they know to stick a pencil in it and rewind it? I've even heard cursive handwriting is not being taught at schools anymore. So that will eventually be something that's lost to the past. Losing knowledge over time happens quite a lot.

There's a difference in lost knowledge and ancient knowledge that surpasses the capabilities of today's technology. It's one thing to say "we don't know exactly how they did it" and another to say "we don't know how they did it and we couldn't even match it with the technology we have today".

You literally just made that up...In 500 more posts you'll come to the conclusion I don't believe that either.

You've said several times that it was too difficult for them to accomplish with the technology they had. So are you now saying that you agree with the fact that they accomplished it with the tools and techniques they had available to them in a reasonable time period? Maybe you should go back through your post history and remember what claims you've made.

Yes there is look at all the megalithic sites around the world that have similar precision stone work that was obliterated and strewn all around (most of these sites are completely missing considering the size of the fragments and walls) and then later built upon by primitive man. Primitive man did not recreate that stone work. We can do it now but back then those people built on the ruins or tried their best to recreate it.

I have a broken hand so I can't do much at the moment except deal with douche bags/post on sherdog but even if I could do stuff I wouldn't want to do anything with you. I think conversations with you would be dull and I could see you getting all whiny about everything.

No, there isn't. Ancient stonework was created by the civilization in the area at that time period. They used techniques commonly available to them.

Well considering I try to hang out with people smarter than me, conversations are usually pretty great. I just don't hang out with lunatics. I hang out with adults who have critical thinking skills. We talk about real issues and real science.

 

[Nononononotorious]

It's easy to post memes and make rediculous claims. It's hard to bring hard evidence to the discussion. Might be why despite all that mashing on the keyboard, you've yet to say a single thing that makes sense.





These jackasses don't get that. They think it took hundreds of years and they had magical technology lost to time. @andnowweknow is what I call an asshat. No legitimate and respected archaeologists think what he does. He's just attracted to the nuts because they have the same whackjob ideas as him.




Of course. The people who actually dedicated their lives to the authentic study of these structures aren't saying crazy shit. Because they understand how capable the society was at building these structures.

@Agent Mulder's Hair and @andnowweknow are both clowns who have a giant attitude. They should be on a Conspiracy site when they aren't flipping burgers at work.

Again, common knowledge that today's machines cannot move the blocks that made the pyramids successfully. This is why is so amazing.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

However, I wouldn't expect anything more than a 10th grade intelligence from someone who eats crickets.

 

[andnowweknow]

There's a difference in lost knowledge and ancient knowledge that surpasses the capabilities of today's technology. It's one thing to say "we don't know exactly how they did it" and another to say "we don't know how they did it and we couldn't even match it with the technology we have today".



You've said several times that it was too difficult for them to accomplish with the technology they had. So are you now saying that you agree with the fact that they accomplished it with the tools and techniques they had available to them in a reasonable time period? Maybe you should go back through your post history and remember what claims you've made.



No, there isn't. Ancient stonework was created by the civilization in the area at that time period. They used techniques commonly available to them.

Well considering I try to hang out with people smarter than me, conversations are usually pretty great. I just don't hang out with lunatics. I hang out with adults who have critical thinking skills. We talk about real issues and real science.

No, your reading comprehension remains downright awful. You missed the nuance of "the tool record"...I never said they didn't have the technology to do anything, I said the tools attributed to the construction by the orthodox representation don't match the construction itself (IE, you can't pound out a perfect granite box with a copper chisel, that's not how this works). Thus, whatever was used to create what we see today is unaccounted for.

It's ok to be wrong. I think slowly you're realizing that we don't even really disagree, you just come to the conversation itching to scream and tantrum about aliens and magic and other dumb shit when nobody is really talking about that at all.

 

[JAEGERX]

it amazes me people these days underestimate the genius of the ancient egyptians engineers, architects and artists when the evidence of their great achievements stand for all to see, its a pretty arrogant position to assume they were backwards morons, at this point we can all agree the worhtless shitbags that live in Egypt now have no resemblence whatsoever to the ancients that lived in those lands

 

[andnowweknow]

Are you suggesting that mainstream academia does not take into account geological evidence? Some of the leading theories that date the Sphinx to around 2500 BC were created by geologists.

People here are talking about the Orion correlation theory as if it is something significant, of course most of the posts here are stupid.

If you care to look into it, you'll see it's an incredibly small minority of geologists (like climate change denier small) who still think that errosion is wind and sand. Those geologists also just happen to be incredibly linked to the Oriental Institute in Chicago (IE, Mark Lehner, nuff said).

As for Bauval and his Orion Correlation, I'm not a big fan of the theory so I don't feel the need to defend it.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Again, common knowledge that today's machines cannot move the blocks that made the pyramids successfully. This is why is so amazing.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

However, I wouldn't expect anything more than a 10th grade intelligence from someone who eats crickets.

You don't know shit about modern machinery. The larger limestone blocks weigh only about 10 tons, or 9,000 kilograms. There are some estimates of some being about 15 tons. That's still only 13,600 kilograms.

The Hitachi EH500AC-3 Haul Truck has a payload capability of 326 tons, or 295,742 kilograms. That could haul 21 of the largest blocks in the pyramid each trip.

The Hitachi EX800-6 Mining Excavators have a backhoe capacity of 921 tons, or 837,000 kg. It could pull and move 61 of the largest blocks into position at a time with it's backhoe.

That's just two machines that aren't even the best in their class. With a few dozen of them, we could easily replicate the pyramids. So when you mock me and say I have the intelligence of a 10th grader, I find it quite hilarious. That would give you the comparable intelligence of a preschooler. You just don't know a single fucking thing about our construction capabilities boy.

Also, there's plenty of information available about how they most likely built the pyramids. Giza, as mentioned several times, isn't even the first. There are several others before that were of worse quality. They worked up to it, building their knowledge and tricks of the trade as they went.

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/khufu-numbers.html

 

[DoomPatrol]

No, your reading comprehension remains downright awful. You missed the nuance of "the tool record"...I never said they didn't have the technology to do anything, I said the tools attributed to the construction by the orthodox representation don't match the construction itself (IE, you can't pound out a perfect granite box with a copper chisel, that's not how this works). Thus, whatever was used to create what we see today is unaccounted for.

It's ok to be wrong. I think slowly you're realizing that we don't even really disagree, you just come to the conversation itching to scream and tantrum about aliens and magic and other dumb shit when nobody is really talking about that at all.

If that were the case, then you wouldn't have argued with me because that was literally my first post. I simply said they probably used some techniques that we didn't know about today and you said it wasn't possible because it was too complicated. Just go back and look at your first posts to me. You've certainly toned down your bullshit in the last couple posts.

 

[BearGrounds]

Aliens or Atlantis people am I right?

Most likely humans with a much better tool set than what the orthodox theories suggest (copper and rock hand tools, lol). In other words, humans with stone working machinery of some sort. People with an advanced understanding in multiple disciplines, including mathematics, engineering, stone masonry, etc..

Have you even academically researched this topic?

I don't have a degree in archaeology, if that's what you're asking. But I don't need one (and neither do you) to see that a 20 year allotted time for the full construction of the great pyramid (cutting and quarrying included) is quite an extraordinary claim, given their supposed tool box.

So if that's the theory that you're here defending, I've almost certainly done a great deal more research into the matter than you have.

Almost all the shit posted in this thread is pseudoscience or just plain false.

People think watching the Joe Rogan Experience is a substitute to going to University these days.

This is just you attempting to straw man down the thread without actually addressing anything in particular; as if everything provided herein, that suggests the orthodox theories are lacking in some way, was Rogan quoted.

What's your position, that 20 years with hand tools sounds legit?

 

[Nononononotorious]

You don't know shit about modern machinery. The larger limestone blocks weigh only about 10 tons, or 9,000 kilograms. There are some estimates of some being about 15 tons. That's still only 13,600 kilograms.

The Hitachi EH500AC-3 Haul Truck has a payload capability of 326 tons, or 295,742 kilograms. That could haul 21 of the largest blocks in the pyramid each trip.

The Hitachi EX800-6 Mining Excavators have a backhoe capacity of 921 tons, or 837,000 kg. It could pull and move 61 of the largest blocks into position at a time with it's backhoe.

That's just two machines that aren't even the best in their class. With a few dozen of them, we could easily replicate the pyramids. So when you mock me and say I have the intelligence of a 10th grader, I find it quite hilarious. That would give you the comparable intelligence of a preschooler. You just don't know a single fucking thing about our construction capabilities boy.

Also, there's plenty of information available about how they most likely built the pyramids. Giza, as mentioned several times, isn't even the first. There are several others before that were of worse quality. They worked up to it, building their knowledge and tricks of the trade as they went.

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/khufu-numbers.html

Negative

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

imo the best documentary about the subject

 

[Agent Mulder's Hair]

imo the best documentary about the subject

Watching it now. About 30 mins into it. Very interesting, thanks for the upload

 

[DoomPatrol]

Negative

What an amazing rebuttal. You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.

Oh wait, no you're a loon who can't back up hit stupid statements.

 

[andnowweknow]

You don't know shit about modern machinery. The larger limestone blocks weigh only about 10 tons, or 9,000 kilograms. There are some estimates of some being about 15 tons. That's still only 13,600 kilograms.

The Hitachi EH500AC-3 Haul Truck has a payload capability of 326 tons, or 295,742 kilograms. That could haul 21 of the largest blocks in the pyramid each trip.

The Hitachi EX800-6 Mining Excavators have a backhoe capacity of 921 tons, or 837,000 kg. It could pull and move 61 of the largest blocks into position at a time with it's backhoe.

That's just two machines that aren't even the best in their class. With a few dozen of them, we could easily replicate the pyramids. So when you mock me and say I have the intelligence of a 10th grader, I find it quite hilarious. That would give you the comparable intelligence of a preschooler. You just don't know a single fucking thing about our construction capabilities boy.

Also, there's plenty of information available about how they most likely built the pyramids. Giza, as mentioned several times, isn't even the first. There are several others before that were of worse quality. They worked up to it, building their knowledge and tricks of the trade as they went.

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/khufu-numbers.html

Without getting into the rest of your post, which is pointless because you don't even consider what others say, the Great Pyramid is BY FAR the best quality of any pyramid in Egypt or anywhere else.

Since you are suggesting some sort of linear progression of building technique (based on bunk dating which I've already explained ad nauseum) how would you explain all the comparative junk pyramids built AFTER the Great Pyramid? If your progression idea had merit you wouldnt expect the best stuff at the beginning and that it get progressively worse over time.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Without getting into the rest of your post, which is pointless because you don't even consider what others say, the Great Pyramid is BY FAR the best quality of any pyramid in Egypt or anywhere else.

Since you are suggesting some sort of linear progression of building technique (based on bunk dating which I've already explained ad nauseum) how would you explain all the comparative junk pyramids built AFTER the Great Pyramid? If your progression idea had merit you wouldnt expect the best stuff at the beginning and that it get progressively worse over time.

Different people made them that didn't have the same resources and skill set.

WOW!!! Did you see what I did there? It's called common sense.

 

[andnowweknow]

Different people made them that didn't have the same resources and skill set.

WOW!!! Did you see what I did there? It's called common sense.

That is exactly what you've been arguing against this whole time and others have been trying to explain to you...And by different people you are clearly implying different people who didn't have the same skills as other people, as in, didn't know about those skills. Humans don't just ignore the right way of doing things if they have access to it.

Let's say it was just idiots vs smart people building in your scenario with the morons making the worse stuff. Where did the accumulated knowledge go in your opinion? Or did they all just have vision problems or mental impairments that prevented them from following a tried and true established formula?

Also, since you've never bothered to explain (or likely look into why the dating is what it is) why you agree with the poorly thought out timeline of construction, tell me why you are such an avid supporter of it?

 

[DoomPatrol]

That is exactly what you've been arguing against this whole time and others have been trying to explain to you...And by different people you are clearly implying different people who didn't have the same skills as other people, as in, didn't know about those skills. Humans don't just ignore the right way of doing things if they have access to it.

Let's say it was just idiots vs smart people building in your scenario with the morons making the worse stuff. Where did the accumulated knowledge go in your opinion? Or did they all just have vision problems or mental impairments that prevented them from following a tried and true established formula?

Also, since you've never bothered to explain (or likely look into why the dating is what it is) why you agree with the poorly thought out timeline of construction, tell me why you are such an avid supporter of it?

No, I've been arguing against your insane idea that they had some crazy technology lost to the world that helped them create them. I never said idiots vs smart people, I said people with different resources and skill sets. They didn't have vision problems, they had a communication problem. People didn't just google how to build a pyramid. There were people who had experience and people who didn't who built them. There were people who cared more about a better product and people who threw shit together.

As far as the exact timeline, I've never made any real assertions. If you want me to take a guess, I'll say it's probably fairly close to what archaeologists think because they've dedicated their lives to learning about them and have access to plenty of information and evidence to come to their conclusions. It may be a few years more or less, but I highly doubt they are off by hundreds of years.

 

[andnowweknow]

No, I've been arguing against your insane idea that they had some crazy technology lost to the world that helped them create them. I never said idiots vs smart people, I said people with different resources and skill sets. They didn't have vision problems, they had a communication problem. People didn't just google how to build a pyramid. There were people who had experience and people who didn't who built them. There were people who cared more about a better product and people who threw shit together.

As far as the exact timeline, I've never made any real assertions. If you want me to take a guess, I'll say it's probably fairly close to what archaeologists think because they've dedicated their lives to learning about them and have access to plenty of information and evidence to come to their conclusions. It may be a few years more or less, but I highly doubt they are off by hundreds of years.

I would just encourage you to look into why the timeline is what it is and why they think the Great Pyramid in particular was built as a tomb for Khufu.

I'm sorry for my snarky posting regarding yours. Normally your tack of appealing to authorities would be advisable and something I myself would do, but Egyptology is an outlier and it's one of the few disciplines that has had a very hard time updating it's stance based on new information over the years. This is mainly to do with the players involved individually though, namely Zahi Hawass. Having an obvious charlatan in charge of antiquities in a corrupt country for decades isn't helpful. The guy used a world heritage site to write a history he wanted and to enrich himself. That's another part of the totality of my viewpoint on the subject but not really worth going into with you I don't think because your mind is made up.

In brief, you're appealing to a poor authority, albeit an authority.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I would just encourage you to look into why the timeline is what it is and why they think the Great Pyramid in particular was built as a tomb for Khufu.

I'm sorry for my snarky posting regarding yours. Normally your tack of appealing to authorities would be advisable and something I myself would do, but Egyptology is an outlier and it's one of the few disciplines that has had a very hard time updating it's stance based on new information over the years. This is mainly to do with the players involved individually though, namely Zahi Hawass. Having an obvious charlatan in charge of antiquities in a corrupt country for decades isn't helpful. The guy used a world heritage site to write a history he wanted and to enrich himself. That's another part of the totality of my viewpoint on the subject but not really worth going into with you I don't think because your mind is made up.

In brief, you're appealing to a poor authority, albeit an authority.

I'm appealing the evidence they have presented to us. Scientists have even calculated the amount of people it would take to do each part of the process, and the math works out fine. I think it's much more reasonable than to assume that all the evidence is false and that it took hundreds of years. I just think you're underestimating their capabilities.

 

[andnowweknow]

I'm appealing the evidence they have presented to us. Scientists have even calculated the amount of people it would take to do each part of the process, and the math works out fine. I think it's much more reasonable than to assume that all the evidence is false and that it took hundreds of years. I just think you're underestimating their capabilities.

speaking of math...

there are 4.2M blocks of stone in the great pyramid.

7300 days is 20 years, the time period you are suggeting.

Divide 4.2M by 7300.

Under your conception and that or orthodox egyptology they worked around the clock and laid down 575 blocks per day ranging from a ton to 100 tons...and did it perfectly.

OK....and to make the assertion even more ridiculous, that speaks nothing of the planning (with incredible accuracy and complexity regarding the interior) OR actually quarrying and moving the stones.

This is a dumb argument and it's dissapointing to be having it with someone who has a degree...in engineering no less.

The Indiana quarry that provided the limestone for the empire state building (there is 30 times the stone in the Great Pyramid as in the Empire State Building...btw) said that at full capacity using modern equipment it would take them 20 years to cut and transport the amount of stone in the great pyramid...working 24/7 which is 3 times normal work load.

The time period for completion argument can just be ended here...or you can try to come up with some sort of rebuttal, but the math, as you like to appeal to, is above. Want to change your opinion after having thought about this a bit more?

Oh, and just to add insult to injury, this math doesn't include the smooth white limestone facing stones which are now missing from the facade of the pryamid...and incidentally make a up a large portion of modern day Cairo.