Almost took my stripes off today

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Darrin1, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. Darrin1

    Darrin1 White Belt

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    So I've been training a year and a half at a well respected school. 4th stripe white belt, 6'1/180lbs. I'm at the point where I can survive entire rounds against some of ourblue belts around my size,(though some other blues smash me).

    Today a 245lb dude walked in off the street. He was both strong and fat, about 5'10. He was jacked with a belly basically. Starting from knees, he threw me on the ground and got side control on me. My instructor said he had no prior experience, but he kept me flat pretty well. I had a hard time even grabbing half guard. I gassed eventually and tapped because his belly was smothering me and I couldn't breathe. It was the first time I felt ashamed of having any stripes on my white belt. During drilling the guy didn't know what he was doing, so my ego is hoping he had wrestling experience of some sort.

    2 questions:

    1. At what belt should one be a able to handle stronger and heavier opponents? This was a huge ego check for me. My guess is around purple belt, you can overcome size and strength differences?

    2. Any tips for escaping when you're getting smashed? My instructor wasn't happy I even ended p on the bottom. But honestly I felt like a rag doll.
     
  2. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    1) It's not black and white. The better you get, the more you're able to handle physical advantages. It's a sliding scale. As a 140 lb purple belt with 7-8 years experience in BJJ alone, I will tell you that size and strength will always matter. We have a 280 lb guy who is a fairly skilled white belt, and let me tell you it sucks to deal with him. He's not passing my guard, and I can sweep and get position on him, but he's hard to submit and he really makes me work.

    2) The fundamental escapes you've learned are your best bets. I still use all my white belt escapes. It's a matter of practice, and actually being put in those bad positions and having to work out of them. As a general rule, you want to keep your hips mobile, arms in tight and framed, look to create space, and never stay flat.
     
  3. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    Martial Arts are a part of a whole array of strategy and tactics. The idea that overcoming someone in a one on one fight with your backs against the wall is the only fair way to win is wrong. It is a myth invented to sell heavy weight tickets.

    Giving up any advantage you had of technique, speed or strategy, you squared off with a larger person directly in front of you. If it were a real fight, that would be stupid.

    Even if he didn't know grappling, you don't know what kind of an aggressive mind he has or what sort of experiences brought him there. Not everyone is equal. Not all guys off the street are equal.

    If it had been a real fight, you would have done ANYTHING not to end up on your knees in front of the big man. You could have punched him in the neck or arm dragged and jumped on his back or run away. Instead of any of that, you conceded the absolute maximum advantage to him that is possible.

    The idea that martial arts or belts can make you invulnerable to any man outside of your group is the blatant egoistical lie that makes martial arts a joke.

    Just because BJJ comes out on top more than Shotokan, doesn't mean that its practitioners aren't still full of shit when they think they can walk around unafraid of strong, dangerous men. There is no such thing as that level of skill.

    You just learned something important about how the world works.
     
  4. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Herein lies the problem with the belt system as it currently stands. People get promoted for various reasons that have nothing to do with how well they can handle themselves against other people who are actually trying to beat them.

    It might hurt but I will tell you this: No 4 stripe white belt at my gym would tap to a belly on their face. That includes the women.
     
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    I would more concerns on how you ended up in side control than anything else really.

    Did you try to midget wrestle from your knees and you got rag dolled?
     
  6. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    I think you're acting like a little baby about the whole thing. Hurt ego, tapped to nothing, got beat up. Don't strop and take your stripes off. Man up and train harder.
     
  7. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    Tapping to a belly in the face is so three stripish.
     
  8. valjits

    valjits White Belt

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    yea i hate to tell you man but i am with dirty holt on this one. as a four stripe white belt I would think you would have the experience to at least survive a round with some joe shmoe of the street. my coach allways says that he wont have one of high ranking jiu jitsu guys get beat up on the street. So even if you are training for sport make sure you can still proctect yourself
     
  9. Gfreak

    Gfreak Purple Belt

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    Arm drag, arm drag, arm drag. By far the easiest thing to do against someone with no experience. Get em to come forward and extend their arms a bit, then grab it and go. Never go flat to your back.


    Also, for everyone criticizing him. Y'all might be missing hte part where he said he gassed out. (not that i'm excusing the tap, far from it). But you very well just could've relaxed a bit when on the bottom. Waited for him to try to go for something (if he's as new as you say, he easily would've given space) and then taken the opening to escape. That way you wouldn't have been fighting strength against strength, and you wouldn't have gassed out.
     
  10. TSD-Bulldog

    TSD-Bulldog BJJ Student

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    Very harsh commentary/ thanks to Balto for lightening this up. Listen, a 4-stripe white belt is a beginner rank as you know. When you don the colored belts, you will continue to eat a slice of humble pie now and then. Lots of factors go into an experience like the one you posted, all of the non-absolute champs amongst us have gone through this and the rest won't admit they have. It is a reminder that you have a lot to learn (like all of us). You may have psyched yourself up about the guy's size and forgot to relax and work your escapes. Keep plugging and don't fret it!
     
  11. Striderxdj

    Striderxdj Brown Belt

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    I hate when big guys get side control, cant say ive had any guys with no experience get there, but we have a blue belt with comparable experience to me (save him also being a division one wrestler) and I do everything I can to prevent him from getting any form of top control or I know he's going to smash me.
     
  12. OldTimey

    OldTimey Orange Belt

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    Dude, it happens. He was well above your weight, and apparently stronger. Lose the ego and just have fun rolling. You'll learn more. If you coach was miffed that you lost, then find a new coach.

    I've seen a pure white belt tap a high purple. The white belt was just a beast that had cardio for days.
     
  13. winterbike

    winterbike Blue Belt

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    I asked my instructor for a blue belt test (under Roy Harris, we have tests) when I felt I could handle any new guy coming in without worrying, and handle other white belts without too much effort. Took me about two years, don't give up!
     
  14. Jonas g33k

    Jonas g33k Blue Belt

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    As Kurt Osiander would say "You [email protected] up a long time ago"! Is it bad? No. Instead of crying with your smashed ego, find some motivation within it. You learn from your mistakes. Try to improve your escapes from bottom side control so it never happens again. You lost a fight? Everyone lose a fight one day. You tapped from a bad position? Train more, at least you've spotten a weakness to correct. You were proud to have some stripes? Stripes mean nothing, and belts mean less than we use to think. Training time and quality of instruction matter. Do your experience in BJJ matter? It does, but sometimes a guy can win just by being tougher or athletic.
     
  15. Darrin1

    Darrin1 White Belt

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    You guys are right. Anyway, I have hit a wall as far as my training goes. I was going great for a while, sweeping some blues, surviving no problem and now I feel like I'm going backwards.

    Yea tapping to a belly in the face is sad, I agree. It is the second time I have ever done it, the first time was earlier this month. Don't know WTF is going on to be honest as I've wrestled big guys before and didn't tap from the smother.

    As far as how I ended up under him: Starting from the knees, he grabbed my arm and pushed me down. Again, this dude was huge, built like a brick $hithouse. I still say he had to have some type of mat experience. The fact that he tried to keep me flat, when I went for my escape, kind of made me wonder. He also tried to isolate my arm when he was on top, appeared to be a keylock attempt. He kept super tight to me the entire time, something I never see brand new guys with no experience do.
     
  16. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Brown Belt

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    You're a white belt. Shut up and train.
     
  17. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Nah, he was no beginner.

    next time, do not midget wrestle against bigger guys, just play guard straight away.
     
  18. AverageCanadian

    AverageCanadian White Belt

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    Difficult to see what is happening without actually seeing the roll. Talk with your instructor and ask him to give you some advice on the situation.

    When he had you in side control was he controlling your hips or more geared towards the head?

    My guess would be the head and if so work on moving your hips away from your opponent and trying to turn into him as well as trying to get the underhook.

    Not always possible but give it a shot.
     
  19. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    dude I know that feeling, im a blue 4 stripes, been grappling around 4 years... when I first got my blue, I was fuck, I dont feel like a blue, that was part of my insecurity to deal with biggers stronger people, im about 165 pounds, 5'7, so I have to deal all the time with people bigger than me, eventually you will start doing better against them, one of the reason why I love no gi much better is because size and strength dont matter as much as in the gi (at least for me, some say the oppositve) I can escape much better and use my speed to get to the back o move around... hate when elephants grab my gi, its a fucking pain in the ass to break their grips...

    I think I was finally feeling confidence against most size noobs around 2.5 years or so...
     
  20. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    there is zero reason to midget wrestling, specially someone whos 80 pounds bigger than you, its a falacy, if the dude wants you on your back, you will end up there.. so just pull guard and work from there...
     

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