aikido vs sub-wrestling

[Balto]

Try again except without a strawman. If you need help understanding what that is, use google.

You're trolling.

I said you can't draw your weapon in a non-lethal force scenario, which is true. Without other training to back you up, you're just exposed hoping that it won't escalate.

You don't have to shoot just because you drew your weapon. If the guy goes away, okay. But you had better be prepared to use it imminently if you draw it. Many common self-defense scenarios do not justify drawing.

Why are you trolling around here so bad? Who are you? You claim all this experience, but you just showed up. What's up with all the trouble?

 

[deadlizard]

Most of this is absolute rubbish, because lethal weapon training teaches you NOT to brandish.

People who have a gun to wave around wave guns around. Just as serious MMA pros don't walk around wearing fuckin tapout shirts, people who have guns for the purpose of shooting people don't advertise it.

That said, I have no clue where you concocted the rest of that stuff. In most cases, merely producing a firearm is sufficient to end a conflict. The notion of "escalation" is laughable bullshit and doesn't exist. It's a libtard fiction. In the vast majority of gun-use incidents, the firearm isn't discharged.

Most people get robbed without a shot being fired. Most burglars scamper at the sound of a slide being racked. Most people put their fkin hands up and comply when the police draw their sidearms. Occasionally, the opposite happens, sure, but it's comparatively rare. Usually people scatter at the sight of a firearm or the sound of a gunshot in close proximity.

All your posts makes you look like a douchebag.

But I find myself agreeing with you.

 

[ozyabbas]

The Grandmaster
TURKISH SUBMISSION WRESTLING

"Time has hidden many of man

 

[Patrick F Carey]

The answer to self-defense is not "get a gun". That is only a part of the answer. A gun without the ability to protect yourself with non-lethal methods is not a good solution. There is a continuum of force.

to expound on the 'use of force continum'; for those who do not know, this allows a police officer to go one step above the perceived level of force. If you punch him, he can hit you with his baton,

if one approached an officer with a bat, he has to make many decisions such as how many officers there are with him and how many attackers there are to decide the level of engagement.

The only way a civilian can be authorized to use deadly force is in a situation where it is a very REAL and CLEAR threat on one's life (exceptions in homes). If someone isn't trying to kill you, you can't use a gun.

 

[Balto]

to expound on the 'use of force continum'; for those who do not know, this allows a police officer to go one step above the perceived level of force. If you punch him, he can hit you with his baton,

if one approached an officer with a bat, he has to make many decisions such as how many officers there are with him and how many attackers there are to decide the level of engagement.

The only way a civilian can be authorized to use deadly force is in a situation where it is a very REAL and CLEAR threat on one's life (exceptions in homes). If someone isn't trying to kill you, you can't use a gun.

It does vary a bit from state to state, but generally:

Why You Should Never Draw Your Gun in This Situation

The summary is that drawing a gun to deter a guy who is going to punch you in an argument gets you charged with brandishing. Only draw your weapon when you are justified using deadly force. You don't have to shoot, but it better be damn close to requiring you to shoot.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

GD, you are dumb...sigh.

If they AREN'T going to pull 50/50 on the street, why are they training it? Isn't it a MARTIAL ART?

I don't know what the rest of the nonsense you were babbling was supposed to add up to. Take a minute, compose your thoughts, and try again.

why are they? becaue they are training the sport side, not the selfdefense side? you have been doing bjj for 11 years but you dont know that you can train for sport purpuses, for SD and for MMA? yeah right black belt, please tell me where you academy is, where guys train berimbolos and 50/50 for streets fights LMFAO...

 

[rekd]

You're trolling.

I said you can't draw your weapon in a non-lethal force scenario, which is true.

Nah, that's not what you said, nor is that in any way responsive to my rebuttal of what you DID say.

You don't have to shoot just because you drew your weapon. If the guy goes away, okay. But you had better be prepared to use it imminently if you draw it. Many common self-defense scenarios do not justify drawing.

sure, I agree with this; nothing erroneous here. But it's quite a departure from what you said before.

Why are you trolling around here so bad? Who are you? You claim all this experience, but you just showed up. What's up with all the trouble?

Speaking the truth to people who apparently don't want to hear it isn't trolling. You talk a lot above on this very thread about truth in MA and what's real. Take a step back and self-reevaluate. Cuz when it's something you don't wanna hear, you sound a lot like TMAers did back in 1993 or these Aikido guys out there who think they can take pro fighters.

As far as who I am, I am remaining anonymous.

 

[rekd]

to expound on the 'use of force continum'; for those who do not know, this allows a police officer to go one step above the perceived level of force. If you punch him, he can hit you with his baton,

if one approached an officer with a bat, he has to make many decisions such as how many officers there are with him and how many attackers there are to decide the level of engagement.

The only way a civilian can be authorized to use deadly force is in a situation where it is a very REAL and CLEAR threat on one's life (exceptions in homes). If someone isn't trying to kill you, you can't use a gun.

This isn't even remotely close to true. You can defend yourself with sufficient force anytime you reasonably apprehend imminent danger of grave bodily harm, subject to duties to retreat, and various state-law pecularities.

The danger needn't be real, merely believed by a reasonable actor.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Most of this is absolute rubbish, because lethal weapon training teaches you NOT to brandish.

People who have a gun to wave around wave guns around. Just as serious MMA pros don't walk around wearing fuckin tapout shirts, people who have guns for the purpose of shooting people don't advertise it.

That said, I have no clue where you concocted the rest of that stuff. In most cases, merely producing a firearm is sufficient to end a conflict. The notion of "escalation" is laughable bullshit and doesn't exist. It's a libtard fiction. In the vast majority of gun-use incidents, the firearm isn't discharged.

Most people get robbed without a shot being fired. Most burglars scamper at the sound of a slide being racked. Most people put their fkin hands up and comply when the police draw their sidearms. Occasionally, the opposite happens, sure, but it's comparatively rare. Usually people scatter at the sight of a firearm or the sound of a gunshot in close proximity.

you take out a gun aaginst the wrong people and you do not intend to use it, you are goig to get shot one time, its ridiculous and stupid.... much easir to end a fight by fighting or running, not shoting somone because you got punch in the face.

And I seriusly doubt anyone training bjj or martial arts (unless those who live in this planet and dont think they are the encarnation of superman) dont train to avoid getting robbed, some idiot tries to take your wallet on the street and pulls a gun, you give and thats it, guys have its place, for me, in my house, someone break into my house at night, you bet Im going to shoot the fucker till he dies.

 

[rekd]

why are they? becaue they are training the sport side, not the selfdefense side? you have been doing bjj for 11 years but you dont know that you can train for sport purpuses, for SD and for MMA? yeah right black belt, please tell me where you academy is, where guys train berimbolos and 50/50 for streets fights LMFAO...

the "self defense side"?? ROTFL. Rafa and the Miyaos, among others, do EXCLUSIVELY sport BJJ. The techniques they spend all day working on have no street relevance. You yourself will be on here to whine after the next major tournie about how fight irrelevant the BJJ you saw was.

My academy is in the USA

 

[BJJ_Rage]

the "self defense side"?? ROTFL. Rafa and the Miyaos, among others, do EXCLUSIVELY sport BJJ. The techniques they spend all day working on have no street relevance. You yourself will be on here to whine after the next major tournie about how fight irrelevant the BJJ you saw was.

My academy is in the USA

and how the fuck do you kjnow what they do or dont? and if they train for sport purpuses, why on earth would they pull berimbolo on the street if they know its for sports and nothing more? and oyou dont think these sport guys can pull a single leg, take your back and choke the fuck out of you? Did roger gracie trained for sports or sd when he fought ron waterman? did damian maia trained for mma or sports or sd or what before joined the UFC? did bibiano fernanzdez, jacare yuri alcantara, werdum, jeff monson, and others world champ trained only for sports or for syd or for mma? they were all world champs and at the same time were fighting mma...

again, whats your belt and lineage? I guess I know wich one is, BS rank from BS academy.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

All your posts makes you look like a douchebag.

But I find myself agreeing with you.

This. He has many interesting and even valid points, but they are completely masked by the manner in which he states them.

It reminds me of once hearing Neil Degrasse Tyson chewing out a famous atheist (maybe it was Hitchens...though I can't remember) for saying the right things, but in a wrong way, guaranteed to turn anyone off to listening to him.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

This. He has many interesting and even valid points, but they are completely masked by the manner in which he states them.

It reminds me of once hearing Neil Degrasse Tyson chewing out a famous atheist (maybe it was Hitchens...though I can't remember) for saying the right things, but in a wrong way, guaranteed to turn anyone off to listening to him.

he has some points, but some stupid ridiculous ones too....

plus he claims to have trained for 11 years, pretty sure no 11 years old grappler will come out like a douchbag like he does, so basically he is full of shit.

 

[KoalaJJ]

This is so 90's.

 

[woooo]

Honestly this seems like you have some kind of pathology now against aikido.

sure seems like it.

And you keep generalizing that there is no training with resisting opponents which is incorrect. Yoshinkan Aikido, Tomiki/Shodokan Aikido, Yoseikan Aikido do randori with live resisting opponents as does Chrsitian Tissier dojo (head of Aikikai Aikido in Europe).

You keep demeaning Aikido and saying these guys are hucksters & frauds. And that's unfair and disrespectful. Like I said the head of the IBJJF broadcasting crew and Rolled Up is a huge Aikido proponent and blackbelt practitioner. And he's also done an awful lot for the BJJ community helping to bring you the Mundials and Rolled up interviews. Are you saying Jake intentionally misleads his students, even though he is a BJJ Brown Belt and Aikido blackbelt who has probably been doing martial arts longer than you? I find that offensive, Jake's a great guy.

Jake McKee Aiki Push Hands:
Aiki Push Hands by Jake McKee - YouTube

Jake's Randori: (granted this is more of a soft randori):
Aikido Randori @ OCBC Aikido Club - YouTube

Jake's Aikido blog:
Twisting Wrists*|*All aikido, all the time

 

[deadlizard]

he has some points, but some stupid ridiculous ones too....

plus he claims to have trained for 11 years, pretty sure no 11 years old grappler will come out like a douchbag like he does, so basically he is full of shit.

Single parenthood sucks. I can understand why he needs the forum to let loose.

Nonetheless, he still sounds like a well informed douchebag. I'm sure he's a nice guy in person though.

 

[rekd]

and how the fuck do you kjnow what they do or dont? and if they train for sport purpuses, why on earth would they pull berimbolo on the street if they know its for sports and nothing more? and oyou dont think these sport guys can pull a single leg, take your back and choke the fuck out of you? Did roger gracie trained for sports or sd when he fought ron waterman? did damian maia trained for mma or sports or sd or what before joined the UFC? did bibiano fernanzdez, jacare yuri alcantara, werdum, jeff monson, and others world champ trained only for sports or for syd or for mma? they were all world champs and at the same time were fighting mma...

again, whats your belt and lineage? I guess I know wich one is, BS rank from BS academy.

Demian Maia trained MMA before going to the UFC. Before that he did sport BJJ. Same with Souza and Werdum.

Like any athlete, they trained the sport they trying to compete in, not something else.

I'm not going to give you any information about me beyond what I have already disclosed.

 

[Balto]

Nah, that's not what you said, nor is that in any way responsive to my rebuttal of what you DID say.



sure, I agree with this; nothing erroneous here. But it's quite a departure from what you said before.

Must be a miscommunication because I don't see a difference. Wait until the need to use your weapon is immediate before drawing it.

Only being able to defend yourself against deadly force threats gives you an incentive to start classing stuff as deadly force too early. Let's say a guy goes to punch you. Is that deadly force? Probably not in most circumstances so you can't draw your weapon.

If you can't defend yourself well with non-deadly force, what do you do? Just take the punch? What happens if he punches again? Deadly force then? The whole time you are just waiting for things to escalate to deadly force so you can draw. Of course you have a very immediate urge to do something to protect yourself, which makes it much more likely that you will draw too early. That's brandishing at best and murder at worst. If you had unarmed training, you'd be able to take steps to actively stop the threat before it got to deadly force.

The point is that most things fall into the non-deadly force part of the continuum. A firearm is not useful for that part.

Speaking the truth to people who apparently don't want to hear it isn't trolling. You talk a lot above on this very thread about truth in MA and what's real. Take a step back and self-reevaluate. Cuz when it's something you don't wanna hear, you sound a lot like TMAers did back in 1993 or these Aikido guys out there who think they can take pro fighters.

The trolling part is stirring shit up on purpose and getting dubs already.

As far as who I am, I am remaining anonymous.

Fair enough, but it's kind of hard to figure out where you are coming from accordingly. You talk about a lot about your background but are very vague. You have some strange ideas. You also like to personally insult people who are helpful around here. That's not going to be received well.

 

[Balto]

sure seems like it.



^^ All of this went completely unaddressed.

No, I responded to that.

The videos do not show real resistance. Do you think that they do?

I don't care that Budo Jake does or did Aikido. It doesn't make me think it is any less flawed. Plenty of BJJ practitioners teach things that are flawed also like some of the Gracie self-defense against a knife. It doesn't work against real resistance. It is dangerous.

Just because someone teaches one thing that is flawed does not mean that I can't respect other things that are taught. Or that I dislike them personally. But it doesn't make me think it is any less flawed.

 

[rekd]

Must be a miscommunication because I don't see a difference. Wait until the need to use your weapon is immediate before drawing it.

Only being able to defend yourself against deadly force threats gives you an incentive to start classing stuff as deadly force too early. Let's say a guy goes to punch you. Is that deadly force? Probably not in most circumstances so you can't draw your weapon.

maybe, maybe not. Big enough dude or some guy in tapout shirt who you reasonably believed was a tough MMA fighter.

If you can't defend yourself well with non-deadly force, what do you do? Just take the punch? What happens if he punches again? Deadly force then? The whole time you are just waiting for things to escalate to deadly force so you can draw. Of course you have a very immediate urge to do something to protect yourself, which makes it much more likely that you will draw too early. That's brandishing at best and murder at worst. If you had unarmed training, you'd be able to take steps to actively stop the threat before it got to deadly force.

maybe...maybe not. See the problem here is what if you lose? You should wait until your skull breaks to have cause?

The point is that most things fall into the non-deadly force part of the continuum. A firearm is not useful for that part.

use it as a club then.

The trolling part is stirring shit up on purpose and getting dubs already.

i'm rollin on dubs son

Fair enough, but it's kind of hard to figure out where you are coming from accordingly. You talk about a lot about your background but are very vague. You have some strange ideas. You also like to personally insult people who are helpful around here. That's not going to be received well.

i'm not all that vague...but there are things you can and can't say, even if true, once you get past blue belt. Suppose i was in the alliance camp and i was sticking up for that schultz dude or i was in some other camp talking about how hall reneged on or screwed filipe. all this stuff is politics...you see how stuff goes down