aikido vs sub-wrestling

You could say exactly the same about America, except there would be a shitload more money to make.
 
fry_ed said:
Is a tennis racket really a weapon? lol..
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Are you serious? Anything can be a weapon. A tennis racket is very light and very strong. It can be a very good defensive weapon. Granted it won't kill you with 1 strike, but it sure as hell can do some damage.
 
Aikido should never advertise as self defense, tricks people into thinking they can protect themselves with it.

By law all advertisements should say "for fitness and entertainment value only, will not function well in real life combat".

I mean even worse is that there are guys going to boxercise and capoeira dance classes (as in capoeira purely for working out) and think they're trained fighters now.
 
The thing is we talk about EVERYTHING ELSE here in the context of Mixed Martial Arts. People used to crap on Karate the same way until Machida, Liddel, now Jimmo, etc. showed what it can do if applied intelligently within a Mixed Martial Arts regimen. HIGHLY EFFECTIVE if just practised and applied properly.

Aikido is just sub-wrestling taken to its philosophical extreme. There are athletes who are finding it helpful if it is practised in conjunction with hard, sport martial arts. There are even Judoka on these boards who have seen benefits from Aikido training.
 
JerkWeed said:
Aikido is just sub-wrestling taken to its philosophical extreme. There are athletes who are finding it helpful if it is practised in conjunction with hard, sport martial arts. There are even Judoka on these boards who have seen benefits from Aikido training.
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hmmmm.... subwrestling without wrestling?

some wrist locks could be useful, nothing more.
 
rekd said:
I have to take issue with this as I did Aikido to blue belt, across a couple of different ryus. I would not say that anyone there ever really advertised it as practical martial art, certainly not something that would be functional for at least a decade. Aikido is very upfront that this shit will not work for you for a long time.

As far as working against the same type of sloppy tackles as the other TMAs demonstrate, I suppose after a lot of practice, it works as well as they do. In fact, I knew bouncers who used Aikido techniques to control passably compliant drunks, and a dude I used to train with put down a would-be purse snatcher with a kokyu nage, then pinned him for the cops. Aikido works. How "well" it works, especially against purpose technique, that's another story, but there are lots of examples where the dumbest crap works in the "real world."

However, ragging on Aikido as ineffective when you have Miyaos and Rafa using the whole berimbolo game, cmon. People STILL sell BJJ as you will win fights, you will dominate in the street, you will be a badass, and all that BS. Look at the people in F12, minds are getting blown out of heads when Roger or Chael say most of what they trained is not useful for MMA. Lots of people want to make bjj "more relevant" for mma, talking about banning this or that technique or position. It's absurd. We have MMA if you want to do MMA. BJJ was never GOOD MMA in the first place! That is the error. It was just better than the other forms of it 20 years ago. A journeyman MMA fighter of today would KTFO Rickson in 30 seconds with as shitty as his posture, punching, and overall standup work was.

BJJ *NEVER* dominated in the street. Numbers and guns did...it was fkin Rio for christ's sake. Luta livre guys were known for carrying guns...ask the guys up your lineages for some stories. BJJ dominated in controlled fights, effectively social status posturing by males, the same as walruses and polar bears and bighorn sheep arbitrate their differences.

As far as "dependency" on the weapon from your earlier post...a professional fighter (aka soldier) has a very different perspective on this. Essentially if you lose this weapon, you are fucked. You may live and you may die, absolutely try to keep fighting, but you fucked up
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Abysmal. I would say BJJ is one of the most failproof self defense systems for the street assuming you are in a one-on-one fight. Even if you're a boxer, EVERYONE can throw a punch, yet with BJJ a very small number of people know what to do. I know that guard passes and submissions I learned on day one WILL work on 95% of potential opponents. And that's just shit you've learned on day one. What other system gives you skills in the first lesson that will be effective against nearly everyone right off the bat? Boxing is definitely practical but you want to tell me you can slip people's punches after one class? You can make the argument with BJJ you have to learn to get the takedown... True... But say somebody jumps on me, I already have real, effective, practical skills of defending myself.

Supposedly with Aikido after 20 years it gets better exponentially, so people can go from utterly hopeless to fighting champions who can beat practitioners of real martial arts who have gradually improved their skills of using practical techniques over the same period of time.
 
Crab Nicholson said:
Supposedly with Aikido after 20 years it gets better exponentially, so people can go from utterly hopeless to fighting champions who can beat practitioners of real martial arts who have gradually improved their skills of using practical techniques over the same period of time.
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thats a myth.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
About rickson, a current top mma fighter under current rules will probably beat rickson, because you know, that journey man is training bjj, wich back in the rickson days, they were not, not to mention rules, that guy and royce fought some savages (some with skills, some with not so much)...
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Actually you can beat Rickson without training any BJJ, all you need is wrestling and good striking. Training BJJ isn't going to stop Rickson from mounting you unless you're Garcia or something, using wrestling to prevent him flooring you, will.
 
So does anyone actually know what the difference between turkish submission wrestling and bjj is?
 
Crab Nicholson said:
Supposedly with Aikido after 20 years it gets better exponentially, so people can go from utterly hopeless to fighting champions who can beat practitioners of real martial arts who have gradually improved their skills of using practical techniques over the same period of time.
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It saddens me that people actually believe this.
 
Crab Nicholson said:
Actually you can beat Rickson without training any BJJ, all you need is wrestling and good striking. Training BJJ isn't going to stop Rickson from mounting you unless you're Garcia or something, using wrestling to prevent him flooring you, will.
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under current rules, hes fucked. But, Back on Ricksons days, there was no good wrestling with good boxing, or if any, very very very extremely rare... there was boxers and wrestlers, not both combine... Under vale tudo rules, Pulling guard would be the best shot rickson would have, and without time limit and certain rules, Rickson could pull it off, and even under this rules, is not like wreslters with no bjj training areng getting subed... For a Wrestler, subdefense is a must.
 
Wrestling and Sambo yes, not so sure they are the best at the others. Russia in the 90's wasn't exactly the place to be. Tournaments were international anyway.
 
GBDaz said:
Why not, but russians are known for being the best in fighting, sambo, wrestling, judo, boxing, kickboxing, they have everything.
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Same thing with Chinese kung fu, or at least, the perception of it.

The reason is simple: because there's no money in it.
 
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