aikido vs sub-wrestling

[Balto]

Everything positive mentioned about Aikido is leftover from its Jiu Jitsu roots (the Aikijujutsu style really).

Aikido, Judo, and BJJ are changes from old Jiu Jitsu. The difference is that Judo and BJJ made positive changes -- full resistance randori, competition to keep us sharp since we aren't fighting to the death on a regular basis, a focus on evolving technique with scientific principles, etc.

Aikido made negative changes -- compliant partners, absolutely nothing competitive, a bunch of cult leader mystical BS about ki, etc.

Of course I realize that you can do Aikido for decades and incidentally happen to get about as effective in a fight as a fucking two stripe white belt in BJJ. That doesn't make it any less lame. The only variants of Aikido that aren't completely lame are the ones that are more like Aikijujutsu or Judo than the mainline school of Aikido.

Aikido doesn't make spirituality better; it makes martial arts worse.

 

[Zankou]

Aikido is ok. It's actually more of an "internal" art and not something you learn to fight with.
You also learn weapons. Obviously, their throws are cooperative. It has also been watered down since the Master started it. The Master fought many challenge matches in his day (no doubt using judo and juijitsu techniques) and won.

It's cool to see them actually being humble and being willing to learn.
No McDojo in the US would feature a black belt putting himself out there and getting humbled in front of the others.

Dude, the master was the entire problem. I get the guy posting below you who talks about why he trains aikido. But aikido's lack of utility for combat is entirely *due* to the master's decision to go down a cultish philosophical path and jettison everything that had originally been useful in the art, which came from judo/jiu jitsu.



Put another way, it was the master's attempt to develop his own art that was the entire problem. He made it much, much worse as a combative art. If you are into his philosophy, great, but that's another issue. Myself, this kind of "spiritual achievement" strikes me as appalling on every level.

 

[Spazzmaster]

Jeeeeezus. never seen ueshiba in action before. Ugh
aikido is magic, apparently. tiny old asian man is immovable!

 

[Zankou]

It's like any cult, you get involved without seeing the ridiculousness, then you learn to sort of mentally wall off the ridiculousness as it becomes apparent, then you don't see it as ridiculous at all.

I think BJJ also often verges on this kind of nonsense. Spirituality in the martial arts all too often is just another word for grovelling before authority. You gotta double-leg it, before it gets too caught up in its own ludicrousness.

Clearly, as that aikido school shows, and as that black belt's post shows, there are aikido schools that have humility and are open-minded. Most seem to be whacked-out, uncritical cultfests though, IMO.

 

[TornadoGward]

I'm a bjj guy but I feel very bad for the aikido instructor.

He was just embarrassed bad twice in a row in front of his whole class. He's probably been training for 10+ years and his students probably really respected him.

Now what? Where do they student or instructor go from there? The poor guy probably poured his life into the art only to be completely and utterly owned twice in 1 minute flat.

No excuses can be said. I mean...how does one continue training aikido after that? Might as well hang up the luau skirt no? All the years training for absolutely nothing. What can u do..smh.

 

[beeble]

nice find, cool vid. surprised how the students reacted tho

 

[Balto]

Imagine a BJJ school where they did basically the same moves as regular BJJ but in a different way. Instead of drilling them normally, they force your partner to throw himself into the move for you every time. He throws himself into armbars, triangles, etc.

Then imagine that you never roll at all. In fact, if the instructor even thinks you might try to roll, he yells at you and reminds you that rolling is not what this is about.

Then imagine that you come on here and tell us about it. Do you think we are going to react by saying "Hey man, that sounds spiritual as fuck. Stay there for 30 years and you might accidentally become a badass."

No. We would say that BJJ school is a fraud and tell you to find a real one. Someone would probably talk about going there to beat up the instructor too.

Well that's what Aikido did to Aikijujutsu. Pretty hard to believe that Aikido somehow magically gets a pass for doing something that ridiculously lame.

 

[Saenchai]

It's like any cult, you get involved without seeing the ridiculousness, then you learn to sort of mentally wall off the ridiculousness as it becomes apparent, then you don't see it as ridiculous at all.

I think BJJ also often verges on this kind of nonsense. Spirituality in the martial arts all too often is just another word for grovelling before authority. You gotta double-leg it, before it gets too caught up in its own ludicrousness.

Clearly, as that aikido school shows, and as that black belt's post shows, there are aikido schools that have humility and are open-minded. Most seem to be whacked-out, uncritical cultfests though, IMO.

BJJ was like it once, "I am the best, no one can defeat me!".

 

[MMAwisdom**]

On socks, like a boss.

 

[sh1tehawke]

lol who?

is sun moon not river pheonix's sister??? im pretty sure i could kick her ass.

 

[nefti]

BJJ was like it once, "I am the best, no one can defeat me!".

the difference was that the gracies put their asses on the line.

 

[nefti]

I'm a bjj guy but I feel very bad for the aikido instructor.

He was just embarrassed bad twice in a row in front of his whole class. He's probably been training for 10+ years and his students probably really respected him.

Now what? Where do they student or instructor go from there? The poor guy probably poured his life into the art only to be completely and utterly owned twice in 1 minute flat.

No excuses can be said. I mean...how does one continue training aikido after that? Might as well hang up the luau skirt no? All the years training for absolutely nothing. What can u do..smh.

i have seen people have the "oh shit, what the fuck have i been doing with my life for the las "X" years?" look after their first time sparring. It's not a pretty sight...

 

[Shemhazai]

The Turk looks like a one year white belt at best, IMO.

 

[kenpeters8]

Sorry if this was posted before.

You still worrying about sharp objects on the mat?

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f16/g...ss-anyone-tried-method-their-academy-2139199/

 

[budoka68]

I did aikido for a few years. The techniques are very good, and I have used it off the mat for self defence. As much as I love it, though, I saw its limitations.

All techniques are responses to stylised attacks, 99% of these being arms-length, standing. You start by learning what to do when someone grabs your wrist, then move on to strikes (mostly diagonal, mirroring sword strikes).

It doesn't pretend to be a form of fighting. There is no actual sparring, just refining technique with a co-operative partner.

Things may have been a little different in that video if the wrestler had grabbed the aikidoka rather than the other way around. In aikido it is all about reacting to an attack, not initiating one.

I left it behind because I thought it could be more useful if it was taught in a more realistic context, but no-one seems to do that. I started wrestling and BJJ because of the value of competitive fighting.

No style is perfect, BJJ has limitations too; you can get KO'd before you get the chance to take it to the ground. Everything has its value, just in different ways.

 

[nomilkforsanta]

You still worrying about sharp objects on the mat?

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f16/g...ss-anyone-tried-method-their-academy-2139199/

Still bending over and taking it from the gracies?

 

[VillArreal**]

Turkey does have a strong wrestling tradition, but I dont think they use subs.

Turkish oil wrestling is no joke.

 

[dingoplata]

This guys English is too good. I've never heard of this art before him and basically Teslim Alma Guresh is Turkey/Australia's answer to Rorion Gracie 2.0

 

[tenniswhiz]

I think some of you are being harsh.
Every martial art has its limitations, and if you're looking to become a grappling wizard through training Aikido, then you're on the wrong path.

Last summer, some athletic looking guy showed up to train for a couple months at my BJJ school. He was a D1 collegiate wrestler. Our instructor (black belt, BJJ) put him in the middle of the mat and we each took turns, playing a 'kind of the hill' TD game. He took all of us down twice, including the instructor. On the 3rd pass, he was exhausted but still took a few guys down before the instructor finally got the TD. Our instructor asked us to give him a round of applause. The instructor was NOT embarrassed, and the students didn't think any less of BJJ or the instructor.
So should we all throw away our gi and find a college wrestling team?

Different arts have different goals. Aikido is not a realistic fighting art, but may have self defense uses as well as being good for discipline and character.

 

[Balto]

I think some of you are being harsh.
Every martial art has its limitations, and if you're looking to become a grappling wizard through training Aikido, then you're on the wrong path.

Last summer, some athletic looking guy showed up to train for a couple months at my BJJ school. He was a D1 collegiate wrestler. Our instructor (black belt, BJJ) put him in the middle of the mat and we each took turns, playing a 'kind of the hill' TD game. He took all of us down twice, including the instructor. On the 3rd pass, he was exhausted but still took a few guys down before the instructor finally got the TD. Our instructor asked us to give him a round of applause. The instructor was NOT embarrassed, and the students didn't think any less of BJJ or the instructor.
So should we all throw away our gi and find a college wrestling team?

Different arts have different goals. Aikido is not a realistic fighting art, but may have self defense uses as well as being good for discipline and character.

Yes, actually you should change your standup strategy in BJJ and try to learn from him if that is the result. You wouldn't just continue blindly with the BJJ mummy walk from standing because that's more traditional. You would learn and adapt. You don't need to throw away the parts that are working, but the standup part obviously isn't so that needs to be reworked.

The difference between BJJ and Aikido is that when people beat us in BJJ, we accept it and learn from our mistakes. That's why BJJ has started to incorporate a lot of other things like leg locks and stuff. That's why the BJJ guys who do MMA spend plenty of time with Wrestling and Boxing and Muay Thai.

It's not that BJJ is a magical art that never loses. It certainly does. The difference is that when BJJ loses, it changes. When Aikido loses, people rationalize about how the loss means nothing and keep on doing the same stupid stuff. It is a dead static art that stands for completely the opposite of quality arts based on aliveness.