aggressiveness in bjj sparring bad???

[fedor4life]

You two are either the same person, or are sucking eachothers cocks.

I mean really, you're feeding off eachother and it's a tad bit suspicious.

"BJJ guys are making up all these stupid rules, like knee on belly!" "All these BJJ guys are about technique over raw power, idiots!"

Just shut the fuck up and learn the game. People who have been in it know what works, it's got nothing to do with being high and mighty. if someone spazzes out I tap them and explain how I did it. That way they learn from their mistakes. But you two assholes refuse to listen, you want to make asses of yourselves because you wrestled in high-school, good for you.

you're an unskilled spaz, Fedor, and with your "BJJ guys are all acting high and mighty" attitude you'll never be able to learn from better grapplers than yourself, and you will always suck.

But hey, feel free to suck eachother ignorant gonads all day long, it will only make it easier to tap you out.

And I'll once again laugh my ass off at you When Jeff Joslin comes on here and puts you in your place again..

I wonder if this other jerk off will back you up then?

ok, some points that i would like to argue...also, i would like to say that i wasnt trying to start a fight, so i dont appreciate derragatory terms really...i didnt call you any names, so i would expect you to give me the same respect...ok, i said that some bjj guys make up rules (like u cant be aggressive when u first start out), yet dont tell new white belts about it, and then they get pissed when the white belts do "spaz out"...haha, the ole knee to the belly reference...man, i didnt really care about the knee to the belly, it didnt really hurt, no more than tapping to a hard kimura or armbar, at the time i just thought that the teacher did it out of spite (now looking back i realize how stupid this actually was) and that was what i was pissed about...ok, now your quoting bjj guys acting all high and mighty...u missed the first word of the quote....SOME bjjj guys...i wasnt talking about people like frodo and others that actually tried to give me sound advice without making fun of me...i was talking about u, and that other guy talking a lot of shit...and i wrestled in high school, and like i said, i was not very good...and seriously, i dont know what this thread has to do with jeff joslin or the club...i am not badmouthing bjj, because if i really thought badly of it, would i go out of my way to learn it??...to be honest this thread has nothing to do with joslins, so i dont know how anyone at the club could get pissed...to be honest, im pretty sure you are the one that is seeming like a jackass right now

 

[fedor4life]

dude...you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. you've been to two (2) bjj lessons, had an online hissy fit because you got put in knee on belly, and you havent been back to that academy since...now you make some retarded thread arguing with us about how to train. fucking brilliant!!!! you know NOTHING about the sport. you know NOTHING about how good bjj players train. please, tell me more about how i get upset when people don't obey my secret bjj ettiquette......

then promptly stfu to maintain the legitimacy of this forum.

p.s. 95% of the posters on this forum could tap you out, and the other 5% just got lost looking for the mma forum.

i cant really argue with any accusations u made here, i do suck, but i bet when u had the same amount of training that i did in bjj, u sucked too...i guess i kinda screwed myself with the whole some bjj guys are all high and mighty...by some i meant a select few, and that select few that i was referring to were the people that were talking shit to me...in no way did i try to annoy more people...seriously, u dont have to tell me this stuff, im going to bold everything in here that i agree with so u guys can stop talking shit...i wasnt trying to argue with u guys, u just took 1 thing i said a little wrong...if someone were to say "wrestler are all high and mighty" do u think i would respond like this...the answer is NO...so maybe there was some validity to my statement (and i still mean that only a few bjj guys are high and mighty, but this guy is one of them)

 

[fedor4life]

I'd just like to comment on Fedor4Life's comment here:

"if some brazillian in 1985 fought rickson but was "hauling ass, jumping around" they would have ended up hurting rickson and winning the fight?? "

No, Rickson wouldnt of got hurt. But thats the whole point.

Rickson is a bjj master, he's competent enough to deal with someone "hauling ass, jumping around" and he would probably tap them in about 5 seconds.

The thing is when your rolling with people who arent masters like Rickson, or people with considerable ground skills. The chance they could get hurt increases exponentially.

Honestly, my impression after having rolled with you once, is that your NOT a spaz. You werent constantly freaking out. I would have to say your movements didnt seem too controlled though. You relied on your size, which I dont blame you for, I would probably use it too, just look to be more controlled in your movements, I found being more controlled leads to more efficient movements, less energy, and a better game.

thanks a lot for the advice man, i have come to respect you a lot...thanks for the advice as well, i will take it into stride...i appreciate it that you didnt take some of the things i said wrong as well...hopefully no one at joslins took this thread the wrong way...thanks for actually clearing up that i wasnt a spaz tho, that actually has a lot of validity considering you are the only person on this site that i have actually sparred with

 

[fedor4life]

its good o be aggressive, but everyone has a different definition of agressive. being fast, or applying power at the right time is a good thing. Always relying on them to "win" in sparring is not. there are a couple of reasons why i think you should curb your aggresivness when sparring, see if you can see where the line should be drawn between techique and power.

1) you become reliant on power and lose on techique (as has been said 1000 times). I can think of lots of examples of this happening at our gym. people training for months and still relying on their power. One guy everytime we tie up i i duck under his arm and go to take his back. As i do, he usually panics and tries desperatly to grab head and arm. i usually slip a hook in and sit back. he still is cranking head and arm but eventually i slip it off and take the back. Occasioanlly i wont fight for it and he will turn into my gaurd. In anycase his problem isnt that he cant always turn into my gaurd to stop me from taking his back. Its that he is not tieing up properly to stop me from taking his back. Of course he doesnt see this, all he thinks is that he needs to learn how to power through the move properly, even though i have more leverage, and the best he can hope for is to end up in my gaurd

2) I train 4 to 5 times a week. If i went full tilt everyday i would no doubt get injured and have to take weeks or even months off. The idea behind controlled sparring is to be able to train and learn consistently without having to worry about injury. this will raise your game a lot faster than training intermittantly because of injury. I know when i played hockey and football we wouldnt use full body contact in practice.

3) in my opinion people who are 'aggressive' are the same ones who never want to tap. this leads me to link the aggressiveness with a inflated ego. until a person can forget about winning and losing and actually let themselves tap, they will not learn anything. I fnd most people who are out there being aggressive are there to win and cannot let go. This type of ego can lead to injury as well. I cant tell you how often i have had that type of person in an armbar and could have just cranked it for a tap but didn't because i knew it would lead to injury. the important thing is i knew it there

all that being said, strength, speed and explosivness do have there place. Like when upa'ing out of mount or side control (explosivness). Or when circling to take the back from four quarters or sprawling on a shot(speed). Or even when appling a subission, when done in a slow, controlled manner (strength).

thanks for the advice, i will definately think about what you have said...also, i have no problem tapping out, if im caught, im caught...the only time i dont tap out is when someone has a hold, and i dont even realize, but they dont crank it or anything cuz they dont want to hurt me, but i cant feel anything, so i dont tap, but as soon as they put some pressure on it, im tapping...to me there is no loss of pride in tapping to someone that is better than you, its inevitable really, u cant start out as a black belt

 

[fedor4life]

careful?!? i had to bring the intensity up on this thread!! you will never be a good poster if you don't post with intensity all the time!! fuck you pussies with your lazy ass posting style, i'm the man, i know how to post!!!

i was merely stating an argument, if u read what i had said i actually see both sides of the argument very clearly now...in my opinion you guys are the ones that are looking like jackasses, so im just going to be a bigger man and respond intelligently without really insulting you

 

[thewaterchapter]

thanks a lot for the advice man, i have come to respect you a lot...thanks for the advice as well, i will take it into stride...i appreciate it that you didnt take some of the things i said wrong as well...hopefully no one at joslins took this thread the wrong way...thanks for actually clearing up that i wasnt a spaz tho, that actually has a lot of validity considering you are the only person on this site that i have actually sparred with

and he gave you great advice which you should listen to. again PAY ATTENTION TO TECHNIQUE. end of thread.

 

[colinm]

you bet i sucked when i first started...the difference is that i was humble, stuck around, and absorbed as much as i could from those who are better than me while NOT wasting my time debating shit i had no idea about on internet forums. shit, i STILL suck in the grand scheme of things (im a middle of the road blue belt).

listen man, IF you ever make it to a blue belt level of proficiency (and i personally think you won't, hopefully you'll prove me wrong) you will look back on all the bullshit you've posted in the last few weeks and laugh because you won't beleive that you were once so full of it...and the only way you will learn anything is by spending some serious time on the mat. so go the fuck back to joslins and apologize and get to it...or stop making stupid threads.

 

[fedor4life]

you bet i sucked when i first started...the difference is that i was humble, stuck around, and absorbed as much as i could from those who are better than me while NOT wasting my time debating shit i had no idea about on internet forums. shit, i STILL suck in the grand scheme of things (im a middle of the road blue belt).

listen man, IF you ever make it to a blue belt level of proficiency (and i personally think you won't, hopefully you'll prove me wrong) you will look back on all the bullshit you've posted in the last few weeks and laugh because you won't beleive that you were once so full of it...and the only way you will learn anything is by spending some serious time on the mat. so go the fuck back to joslins and apologize and get to it...or stop making stupid threads.

u dont have to have such a dickhead undertone with everything you say to me...its like u dont think i know the only way to improve bjj skills is to actually do it...i was merely trying to have an intelligent argument, which i was having, until people like u came onto the thread and started talking shit...why dont u check out this post from earlier in my thread and then u will know what im trying to do with this thread...ok, here is a good post from earlier in the thread, from me:

as soon as i leave for a bit a bunch of people make some great points...im happy that everyone realized that i wasnt trying to fight or anything, i was just trying to argue my point and then see what everyone else had to say about it....thanks a lot for everyone that gave input

and heres another one:

i like the new mentality that i am having on the forums...respect people and they will respect u...its a lot less frustrating than arguing with everyone

 

[fedor4life]

and he gave you great advice which you should listen to. again PAY ATTENTION TO TECHNIQUE. end of thread.

and you know, i would have listened to u say it if werent such a JACKASS while u were doing it

 

[Greoric]

careful?!? i had to bring the intensity up on this thread!! you will never be a good poster if you don't post with intensity all the time!! fuck you pussies with your lazy ass posting style, i'm the man, i know how to post!!!

HAHAHAHAHA! I know that was kind of a pun towards me too but that was an awesome crack man!
HAHHAHAAHAHA!:icon_lol:
But watch yourself!

This thing is pretty much wrapped up, but there is still one loose end I have to address. Fedor pretty much was conceding for the latter third part of the thread, yet you guys were still hammering on the guy. I started saying most of the shit while he was concedeing and apologizing. Why were you all still giving him the heat and not me?
I was the real culprit. :icon_twis

 

[wOg]

this is the main difference between wrestlers and bjj guys...see i have heard of wrestlers being great at bjj, a whole lot actually, but i have never heard of anyon that does bjj then becoming a good wrestler.....hmmmm, does it have something to do with intensity is a good thing...ok, also, if u are using strength, why does that mean that you arent using technique??? wouldnt technique be better if u were strong with it rather than weak?

Interesting. I find that the wrestlers at our academy tend to top out at blue belt. Many start training no gi almost exclusively shortly afterwards--and I can't help but see their technique becoming less sharp.

Essentially they are great "submission wrestlers," but their technique isn't overwhelming. More often than not I see (or feel) them tugging and yanking on arms and legs to make things happen. They tend to be strong enough and knowledgeable enough to make it work with equal or lesser opponents. But it is completely different from the feeling of being almost effortlessly tossed around by our brown belt "bjj guys".

It's important to realize that you can't spar the same way with everyone. There are guys I can roll with and work technique. Other guys are so much better technically, that I'm just in survival mode--but I'm still trying to work technically. Last night I found myself getting annoyed at a bigger guy I was rolling with whose got some good technique, but can only go at 100 mph. Finally, I just told myself: "Jiu jitsu is about conserving energy and self-defense. So just defend yourself." I'm not saying that will work in all instances. But at least I've figured out a way to make my sessions with that guy work for me ...

And if I ever submit that guy, I'll be smiling for weeks!

 

[fedor4life]

Interesting. I find that the wrestlers at our academy tend to top out at blue belt. Many start training no gi almost exclusively shortly afterwards--and I can't help but see their technique becoming less sharp.

Essentially they are great "submission wrestlers," but their technique isn't overwhelming. More often than not I see (or feel) them tugging and yanking on arms and legs to make things happen. They tend to be strong enough and knowledgeable enough to make it work with equal or lesser opponents. But it is completely different from the feeling of being almost effortlessly tossed around by our brown belt "bjj guys".

It's important to realize that you can't spar the same way with everyone. There are guys I can roll with and work technique. Other guys are so much better technically, that I'm just in survival mode--but I'm still trying to work technically. Last night I found myself getting annoyed at a bigger guy I was rolling with whose got some good technique, but can only go at 100 mph. Finally, I just told myself: "Jiu jitsu is about conserving energy and self-defense. So just defend yourself." I'm not saying that will work in all instances. But at least I've figured out a way to make my sessions with that guy work for me ...

And if I ever submit that guy, I'll be smiling for weeks!

thanks for just not calling me a pussy newb and what not...when i saw what you quoted i was almost positive that this was going to be another long post bashing me, but it was actually quite informative...thanks for the advice, i guess i will have to figure out when i will be in survival mode and when i will be trying to execute technique

 

[fedor4life]

u dont have to have such a dickhead undertone with everything you say to me...its like u dont think i know the only way to improve bjj skills is to actually do it...i was merely trying to have an intelligent argument, which i was having, until people like u came onto the thread and started talking shit...why dont u check out this post from earlier in my thread and then u will know what im trying to do with this thread...ok, here is a good post from earlier in the thread, from me:

as soon as i leave for a bit a bunch of people make some great points...im happy that everyone realized that i wasnt trying to fight or anything, i was just trying to argue my point and then see what everyone else had to say about it....thanks a lot for everyone that gave input
and heres another one:

i like the new mentality that i am having on the forums...respect people and they will respect u...its a lot less frustrating than arguing with everyone

yeah i realize that im quoting myself but look at these 2 posts from earlier in the thread...this is how i truly feel about this thread...any time i was talking shit it was only because people started calling me pussy newb or talking shit to me even though i was trying to be respectful...maybe after u guys read these two posts from well earlier in the thread, u wont be so quick to judge what i have to say, and maybe u will give me some sound advice, which is what i was looking for on this thread...and i have gotten a whole lot of it, so to everyone that gave me advice, thank you, i will actually apply it...and for everyone that talked shit to me, just give me advice without it you know, im trying to respect you guys, but i cant take any advice from someone that calls me a spaz or something, u know what i mean

 

[Bama Zulu]

Good topic

 

[fedor4life]

Good topic

yet you dont have a stance on it??

 

[thewaterchapter]

Good topic

except its safe to say this thread is done. it was good for the first 3 pages.... then sporatically after that. but it seems as though we all covered the issue to death here. fedor, good luck man.

 

[colinm]

HAHAHAHAHA! I know that was kind of a pun towards me too but that was an awesome crack man!
HAHHAHAAHAHA!:icon_lol:
But watch yourself!

This thing is pretty much wrapped up, but there is still one loose end I have to address. Fedor pretty much was conceding for the latter third part of the thread, yet you guys were still hammering on the guy. I started saying most of the shit while he was concedeing and apologizing. Why were you all still giving him the heat and not me?
I was the real culprit. :icon_twis

he's got a bit of a history here in the grappling forum...which is why he got flamed. i guess you didnt see the other threads. plus it gets boring around here, and we need to give some tough love to keep things interesting. anyone worth a shit will get fired up to do if you tell them they can't, right?

fedor, just train man. get your ass back in there and train.

 

[fedor4life]

except its safe to say this thread is done. it was good for the first 3 pages.... then sporatically after that. but it seems as though we all covered the issue to death here. fedor, good luck man.

thanks man

 

[fedor4life]

he's got a bit of a history here in the grappling forum...which is why he got flamed. i guess you didnt see the other threads. plus it gets boring around here, and we need to give some tough love to keep things interesting. anyone worth a shit will get fired up to do if you tell them they can't, right?

fedor, just train man. get your ass back in there and train.

yeah dude, im going to bjj practise tonite...gotta apologize in front of the class...hopefully everyone can kinda forget about it and learn to actually know the real me...i guess we will see tho

 

[VampireMonk]

I like to be technical and slow, what you called LAZY sparring,
wish we divided up the schools to lazy sparring and intense sparring.

I don't care for intense sparring, because of many reasons, injury, cauli ears, don't
want to be too sore so I can do OTHER workouts like mountain climbing,
surfing etc.

I wish the intense people just stay together, but you know what? they don't. I wonder why,
because they like to go full speed on a someone who is not and just get the win and
be like, yep I'm good.
if your so good, go at my speed. Or just keep training with another intense guy.