adding 20 rep sqauts to 5x5? critique my routine

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Andrew D, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. Andrew D

    Andrew D Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    This is my first post in the S&P forum but I've been reading up on everything for a long time now. I started with the FAQ and browsing the topics. I wanted to be as well informed as possible before getting back into the weight room so I went through link after link on the D&S FAQ reading everything about fish oil and protein etc. The last thing i read was almost every article in the sticky from Keith Wassung. About a month ago was when i decided to start a serious weight lifting program.

    A little bit more background on myself. I am recently turned 18 years old and a very lean 6'1 162 and those last 10 pounds have only just come in the past month. I have been training MMA for the past 2 years and have competed in a few grappling tournaments and smoker mma tournaments as well. I realized when I weight 148 i was still fighting 160+ because there weren't enough guys my size to fill out a couple of the tournaments in my area. The fact that I still placed pretty decent and only lost decisions in the finals against bigger guys motivated me to dive headfirst into smart lifting. I have a fight coming up in a few months and training could be going better but I would like to get as strong as possible first.

    I decided to choose the Bill Starr 5x5 because I liked how it would build everything and its emphasis was on squats and core strength. This is how my program has looked for the past month.

    Tuesday:

    Bench Press 5x5 pyramid
    ATG Squat 5x5 pyramid
    BOR 5x5 pyramid

    Thursday:

    Military Press 5x5 pyramid
    ATG Squat 5x5 pyramid
    Romanian Deadlift/Deadlift 5x5 pyramid
    Pullups 3xfailure

    Saturday:
    Bench Press 5x5 pyramid
    ATG Squat 5x5 pyramid
    BOR 5x5 pyramid

    Basically after reading into the 20 rep squat set I really want to implement it somehow into this workout without messing anything up.

    Also, something I've been wondering as well, is there a way I could add Clean&Jerks to this routine and would it be beneficial?

    Overall, what are your guys thoughts on my routine in general and the specific questions.

    Thanks,
    Andrew Daggon
     
  2. the_harbinger

    the_harbinger Orange Belt

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    Definately good movements you want in...but I'd have to say don't fuck with the original program. While it may not necessarily hurt you to implement them, there is, I'm sure, a specific reason why Bill Starr picked what he did. So, I'd say finish the program Bill Starr's way. You're sure to make plenty of gains on it. Once you're done with Bill Starr's 5x5 maybe customize it a little or make your own program.
     
  3. Jake Martin

    Jake Martin Amateur Fighter

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    The 5x5 is a very taxing program as it is written. If you're going to do 20 rep squats, I'd not do them with 5x5.
     
  4. Just throw a 20 rep x 5 sets day here and there. Make sure you get plenty of rest though, the DOMS will be bad, especially if you're just getting back in to it.
     
  5. Andrew D

    Andrew D Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    thanks for the responses I think i\I'll take your advice and keep working in the program until i finish it and customize my own. I am making decent gains so far so thats good
     
  6. AnOddParadigm

    AnOddParadigm Blue Belt

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    Both the 5x5 and 20 rep squats are good program, but only one at a time! You can alternate programs, but to try to do very taxing programs at once is asking for trouble. Since your program is still working, you don't need to change it.
     
  7. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    5 sets of 20? LOL! Have you done a 20 repper? Its brutal.

    Keith Wassung recently wrote an article which supports the TS' idea. What you need to do is, 5 heavy sets of 5 and add 5lbs when you get all the reps. Do that for maybe 2 weeks (so thats like 30lbs increase in your squat if all goes well) then do 1 or 2 days where you do a set of 20 with a weight you can do for 10-12 reps. Then go back to your 5 heavy sets of 5.

    This should build up your work capacity and tolerance for volume too, which will help you make gains on the 5x5.
     
  8. Yep, go check my log. I just use lighter weights. Hence why I said the DOMS will be bad if you don't take care of them.
     
  9. stylesbjj**

    stylesbjj** Banned Banned

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    I think 20reps are best when interspaced with low reps.
     
  10. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    I thought the point of a 20 repper was to use a weight you can do for 10-12 and push past the pain barrier to squeeze out more reps?
     
  11. There can be more than one point to it lol. I've done that as well. I like doing 20 reps for 5 sets with low weight (I'm talking 135 when I squat 335+). It's just a nice change up from constantly doing 5 reps and lower. I actually haven't done them in a while, maybe soon *strokes ghetto beard*

    EDIT: I do this with bench press as well, only I usually do 12-15 reps. It's just good for a change and I usually only do it once every 2 months or so.
     
  12. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    Yeh I agree its good to do high rep stuff, I think endurance helps with lifting heavy weights in a way. When you do 20 reppers youre constantly pushing it and telling yourself that youve got 1 more rep, that helps when youre doing heavy sets of 5 and you feel like giving up after the 3rd.
     
  13. Hell yeah. 20 reppers are a good change of pace. Try them the way I described with the 5 sets next time Vince, just use a pretty light weight.
     
  14. Donut62

    Donut62 Black Belt

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    Why aren't you doing deadlift or power clean?
     
  15. Saith

    Saith UFC poster boy

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    What's with having everything as pyramids? You need the volume sets to build strength too (on the 5x5)
     
  16. Lorenz

    Lorenz Banned Banned

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    This is what I noticed aswell... I'm just starting the 5x5 myself, but I eagerly look forward to every DL day!
     
  17. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    Yeh stay away from pyramids, I fell into that trap a few months after I started and my progress completely halted. Now Im back to doing volume (5 heavy sets with the same weight) and Ive put on weight and my squat has gone up. Also its good mental conditioning, come the 4th set youre gonna think "shit, theres no way I can do 2 more sets" but you get under the bar and do it anyway, and that will teach you to just STFU and lift. Or at least it has for me.
     
  18. hunto

    hunto Brown Belt

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    As well. 2 words.



    Yes, it fucking matters.
     
  19. BlastBeats

    BlastBeats Cogito Ergo Dubito

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    This concept is similar to what Keith was saying in his latest posting about throwing high rep days in here and there.

    I also agree with vince that pyramids (at least for me in my experience) can plateau easily and its better to do a volume 5x5 type program.
     
  20. Old Man

    Old Man Black Belt

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    Here is what Keith has to say about doing a set of 20 reps with a weight you can do for 10-12:

    This quote can be found here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php?t-530923.html
     

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