ADCC 2019

[mataleaos]

I am a always amazed by what I dont know and what I think I know that's wrong.

Thanks for correcting me.

What were you wrong about?

Keenans opinion from the podcast is that he doesn't understand jiu jitsu but is good at putting the hooks in an rear naked choking people.

As usual (I love ya Keenan) but I think he may be simplifying things just a tad bit. I get what he's saying though and in principle I agree with him. The guy is a great wrestler with a great RNC and isn't afraid of legend's in the sport like Cyborg, etc. I can get on board with that.

 

[FELLA]

Im amazed at people like you who say stuff like this.
'Basic submission defence' would win you ADCC as long as you can wrestle?
And expecting a 'mediocre' wrestler to defend Galvaos TDs ? LOL
I guess you have no clue about levels in grappling. One of the most ignorant statements ive read for a long time.

Really? Where did I say 'mediocre' wrestler? I said high level wrestler.
Recent example being Pat Downey.
You really think Galvao is going to take him down?
I think he, or any high level wrestler could take Galvao down, get side control. Pin him, switch to the other side. Basically wrack up points and win ADCC.
I think you're the one being ignorant.

 

[yetanother]

Really? Where did I say 'mediocre' wrestler? I said high level wrestler.
Recent example being Pat Downey.
You really think Galvao is going to take him down?
I think he, or any high level wrestler could take Galvao down, get side control. Pin him, switch to the other side. Basically wrack up points and win ADCC.
I think you're the one being ignorant.

Galvao would just sit down on his but and go for a heel hook.

 

[FELLA]

Galvao would just sit down on his but and go for a heel hook.

When getting suplexed or power double legged?
You don't think wrestlers know how to scramble and untangle their legs.
Often just using explosiveness and athleticism.

 

[EGDM]

When getting suplexed or power double legged?

Hard to suplex a guy who doesn't care about putting his back on the ground.

You don't think wrestlers know how to scramble and untangle their legs.

Not from world class ju jitsu heel hooks. Even world-class ju jitsu black belts have a hard time with that.

Competitive specialization is driven by rulesets. ADCC rules are closer to BJJ than wrestling.

 

[FELLA]

True but I think Galvao relies too much on his athleticism and being juiced up.
He's not really submission orientated.
Obviously he will take one if it's there.
I think a more skilled submission opponent like Gordon Ryan would do better against a pure wrestler under ADCC rules.
Also no one has explained why they don't allow neck cranks, spinal locks like the twister.
Surely no worse than heel hooks.

 

[EGDM]

True but I think Galvao relies too much on his athleticism and being juiced up.
He's not really submission orientated.

I'm not a big fan of Galvao, but I respect that he knows exactly what he needs to do to maximize his chances of winning. At the highest levels of the sport where the skill margins are very thin, taking a risk to go for a submission often plays out badly.

I guarantee he taps a BJJ-untrained wrestler 10/10 times.

Also no one has explained why they don't allow neck cranks, spinal locks like the twister.

Because it's the Sheik's money, the Sheik's tournament, and the Sheik's rules.

 

[yetanother]

When getting suplexed or power double legged?
You don't think wrestlers know how to scramble and untangle their legs.
Often just using explosiveness and athleticism.

You don't train do you?
How do you want to power double someone across the mat when he just sits down on his ass the first thing?

 

[yetanother]

True but I think Galvao relies too much on his athleticism and being juiced up.
He's not really submission orientated.
Obviously he will take one if it's there.
I think a more skilled submission opponent like Gordon Ryan would do better against a pure wrestler under ADCC rules.
Also no one has explained why they don't allow neck cranks, spinal locks like the twister.
Surely no worse than heel hooks.

Getting your spine broken is more serious then a knee. Also twisters are low percentage so it doesn't change things much just prevents the adcc looking bad.

 

[FELLA]

You don't train do you?
How do you want to power double someone across the mat when he just sits down on his ass the first thing?

Only for 30+ years sunshine.
Sitting on your ass wins you ADCC then?

 

[EGDM]

Sitting on your ass wins you ADCC then?

If you heel hook the guy afterwards, yes.

 

[yetanother]

Only for 30+ years sunshine.
Sitting on your ass wins you ADCC then?

If you are just a pure wrestler you can either not engage a butt scooter and loose by penalties or engage and get tapped.
Taking Rickson down to side control (in previous years when they allowed takedowns outside the mat preferably on concrete) would have worked but things have progressed since. Defending heel hooks with just wrestling is not easy (see Rustam Chsiev a high level wrestler getting tapped first round).
I agree that high level wrestler with enough training to not get tapped would be a serious ADCC challenger. But if you want to wrestle your way out of modern leg locks you will likely just get injured.

 

[cheachea]

edit

 

[asian-glow]

What were you wrong about?


As usual (I love ya Keenan) but I think he may be simplifying things just a tad bit. I get what he's saying though and in principle I agree with him. The guy is a great wrestler with a great RNC and isn't afraid of legend's in the sport like Cyborg, etc. I can get on board with that.

I suppose I implied that Gordon nonchalantly finished his sub the first time he tried it when in fact there were multiple attempts.

 

[mataleaos]

Sitting on your ass wins you ADCC then?

It depends. A lot of people have sat with the intention of wrestling up, getting in on leg entanglements, arm dragging to the back, etc. Sitting guard is not inherently a bad strategy.

It’s pretty much impossible to win adcc by just sitting and playing guard in every match. But the current submission grappling game is highly evolved and has a lot of options (both positionally and submissionally) for anyone choosing to play bottom.

Edit: just curious did you out see the most recent adcc? Lachlan Giles (77kg) took bronze in the absolute with 3 submissions from guard against all 3 opponents that outweighed him by more than 20 kilograms/40 pounds each. One of his wins was over the guy who won the gold at +99kg.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

 

[mataleaos]

Bummed for Edwin. He said he had a rough week after ADCC but he got back on the horse and did that Jiu Jitsu Expo last minute and won his match via brabo to RNC during a Leo Vieira roll. ADCC was not Edwin's weekend and Garry was on fire that weekend. Beautiful submission here from Garry.

 

[yetanother]

Bummed for Edwin. He said he had a rough week after ADCC but he got back on the horse and did that Jiu Jitsu Expo last minute and won his match via brabo to RNC during a Leo Vieira roll. ADCC was not Edwin's weekend and Garry was on fire that weekend. Beautiful submission here from Garry.

Did he get injured by the heel hook or just discouraged by the loss?

 

[mataleaos]

Did he get injured by the heel hook or just discouraged by the loss?

I don't think he got injured because he competed less than a week later to get back on the horse.

He was just bummed I think. Because he lost his 1st match in his weight class to Celso by ref decision in OT. Then he wanted to get out there and do the absolute and then lost super fast to Garry here 1st match. His teammate Arges lost his first match at ADCC too. Pena lost. Their whole team trained really hard and just didn't get the results they wanted. Then the next few days on reddit people were being assholes and taking shots at him for losing so fast to Garry here and things like that.

 

[Tebowned]

Only for 30+ years sunshine.
Sitting on your ass wins you ADCC then?

Gordon sat on his ass and won double golds. He only wrestled when he was forced to wrestle.