ADCC 2019

randomg1t said:
agreed, but i'm more bothered by the negative points for guard pulling, to be honest. and to be fair, IBJJF rules are also silly.

i'd much prefer a ruleset where position was awarded, not how you got there. side control is 2 points, mount is 3 points, back is 3 points. no points for sweeping into guard. no points for takedowns into guard. points for reversing someone. while i'm at it, allow all leg locks. no points in the first half of the match, if it goes the distance with a tied score, three judges decide who won based on who pursued the finish more aggressively.

when i become a billionaire, the randomg1t world championship will be hosted every 2 years, with gi and nogi alternating like the summer and winter olympics, and it will be the most prestigious tournament anyone has ever organised.
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Ref decisions is the worst, totally subjective rather have ot rules. But with a whifer spectrum of positions and each position can be use just once.

I
 
randomg1t said:
agreed, but i'm more bothered by the negative points for guard pulling, to be honest. and to be fair, IBJJF rules are also silly.

i'd much prefer a ruleset where position was awarded, not how you got there. side control is 2 points, mount is 3 points, back is 3 points. no points for sweeping into guard. no points for takedowns into guard. points for reversing someone. while i'm at it, allow all leg locks. no points in the first half of the match, if it goes the distance with a tied score, three judges decide who won based on who pursued the finish more aggressively.

when i become a billionaire, the randomg1t world championship will be hosted every 2 years, with gi and nogi alternating like the summer and winter olympics, and it will be the most prestigious tournament anyone has ever organised.
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I honestly don't mind the -1 for pulling guard as long as it's during the second half (points period) of the match. Which is how they have it for everything prior to finals matches.

I just think it's weird that when the finals come around suddenly you can't pull guard even during the first half (no points period) anymore without the -1.

I don't understand why it changes either. Even from just a competitive POV it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
FELLA said:
My point is, surely being a high level wrestler with basic submission defence could be enough to win ADCC?
Take down, side control, pin, switch to other side, repeat ....
Galvoa won the super fight based on takedowns, which in my opinion they were not very technical.
I would expect a mediocre wrestler to defend what he did.
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Yeah. Were honestly not seeing the best physical talent pool we could in the world cause, hate to admit it sherdog BJJ enthusiasts, doesnt have the best people in the world they COULD get. Nowhere near the pool in international wrestling, judo or even sambo. Jordan Burroughs with 6 months of solid submission training may do well in ADCC (he would REALLY need to work on leg lock defense). He could def out Galvao, Galvao. I too wasnt impressed with too much of the wrestling and Im a bjj brown belf. Rodriguez, while powerful, young and athletic, isnt even a good D 3 wrestler really. Hes just a strong, quick dude who learned some bjj. I think if BJJ ever gets bigger money wise, well see more talent...or just submission grappling in general . I think more no gi schools like 10 th planet would be beneficial to increasing talent pool.
 
any great back control rnc finishes to study from this years adcc? or mount attacks?
 
HunterAcosta said:
Yeah. Were honestly not seeing the best physical talent pool we could in the world cause, hate to admit it sherdog BJJ enthusiasts, doesnt have the best people in the world they COULD get. Nowhere near the pool in international wrestling, judo or even sambo. Jordan Burroughs with 6 months of solid submission training may do well in ADCC (he would REALLY need to work on leg lock defense). He could def out Galvao, Galvao. I too wasnt impressed with too much of the wrestling and Im a bjj brown belf. Rodriguez, while powerful, young and athletic, isnt even a good D 3 wrestler really. Hes just a strong, quick dude who learned some bjj. I think if BJJ ever gets bigger money wise, well see more talent...or just submission grappling in general . I think more no gi schools like 10 th planet would be beneficial to increasing talent pool.
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Good post. Part of the charm of ADCC, but also part of the problem, is that relatively mediocre players with strong (but nowhere near world class wrestling) and a dash of BJJ can put in dominant medal winning performances. This makes it fun, but does kind of suggest that the unusual rules lead to a relatively shallow pool of competitors relative to other major grappling sports.
 
asian-glow said:
This is one of the funniest things I've seen in BJJ.

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goes to show how good wrassling is in grappling no gi especially remember weidman vs andre galvao adcc 2009 only year training and barely lost to him by like 2 points or an advantage

i think guys are really gonna start focusing on wrestling more than ever soon more than ever but doing it from bottom
 
BJJ_Rage said:
Gordon is way on his to be fair... he walked through his division like it was a piece of cake (saved the hulk match). Now the thing vs Marcelo is the absolute. Marcelo was too small to win it all, although he could’ve done it with a bit more of luck and game planning vs Robert...galvao will never ever get to Marcelo’s level simply due to the fact that he wasn’t as dominant as Marcelo, many matches won on points let alone dude is got some blood on his roidstream, this last version of galvao was just ridiculous
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tbh i never really liked watching galvao he didnt seem super technical methodical like your mendes bros braulio estimas rogers and as you said marcelo

especially later years when he got even more muscular just seemed to sue his size to force top on guys
 
tekkenfan said:
tbh i never really liked watching galvao he didnt seem super technical methodical like your mendes bros braulio estimas rogers and as you said marcelo

especially later years when he got even more muscular just seemed to sue his size to force top on guys
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A lot of his technique is super tailored for being being built like a roided out monkey.
Keeping it simple but varied and dynamic are better technical choices for him.
 
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tekkenfan said:
goes to show how good wrassling is in grappling no gi especially remember weidman vs andre galvao adcc 2009 only year training and barely lost to him by like 2 points or an advantage

i think guys are really gonna start focusing on wrestling more than ever soon more than ever but doing it from bottom
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I think Craig Jones predicted this as the next big trend.
 
mataleaos said:
No disagreements there. He was more athletic at -88 and he was also not 100% healed for this new ADCC so he was moving slower. I'm not saying he's not an athlete. But he's not as athletic as other ADCC legends like Galvao, Marcelo, or even Braulio.

But I really stand behind my overall point. I've rolled with him several times. When he was in the 170s in 2016. When he was in the 180s in 2017. And in 2018 when he was well over 210 lbs.

He never moved very explosively or quickly. In rooms full of brown and black belts he me moved the same pace the entire time (at least an hour each time) and it was about the same speed you see him move in the entirety of his match catalogue. Mid-tempo and rarely rushing outside of an occasional scramble. One thing that I didn't catch early on was my friend who is a Mendes Bros black belt that hates no-gi told be after Gordon's first EBI that he was now a Gordon fan because Gordon "moved slowly and deliberately like a gi guy."
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Its amazing watching Gordon. Hes so relaxed and calm, like hes almost half sleeping, yet hes still killing these guys, and this ADCC he had a messed up hand as well in a bike accident.
So with one hand basically, he still easily beats everyone. Its insane.
 
FELLA said:
My point is, surely being a high level wrestler with basic submission defence could be enough to win ADCC?
Take down, side control, pin, switch to other side, repeat ....
Galvoa won the super fight based on takedowns, which in my opinion they were not very technical.
I would expect a mediocre wrestler to defend what he did.
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Im amazed at people like you who say stuff like this.
'Basic submission defence' would win you ADCC as long as you can wrestle?
And expecting a 'mediocre' wrestler to defend Galvaos TDs ? LOL
I guess you have no clue about levels in grappling. One of the most ignorant statements ive read for a long time.
 
Kevza said:
Im amazed at people like you who say stuff like this.
'Basic submission defence' would win you ADCC as long as you can wrestle?
And expecting a 'mediocre' wrestler to defend Galvaos TDs ? LOL
I guess you have no clue about levels in grappling. One of the most ignorant statements ive read for a long time.
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Just to add to this I think the idea of basic submission defense is one of those terms that did sort of apply but is slowly becoming obsolete. I mean yes things like keeping good posture all the time and keeping your elbows close all the time are great. And ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

On the other hand we are seeing people now that are spending as much time tweaking every centimeter of their submission details as they are tweaking their sweeps and guard passes. This wasn't nearly as common even 5 years ago.

People are spending more time now viewing submissions as detailed positions and progressively learning how to troubleshoot their way through various early to late stage defenses and counters in order to get the finish.

Throwing out a "basic submission defense" against someone that's high level at their best submissions is not going to stop them. You're seeing athletes like Lachlan Giles and coaches like John Danaher releasing entire instructionals on just how to finish certain submission holds from all angles and through all types of road blocks that your opponent might put in the way.

The gap in skill between those that know the best practices for finishing their favorite submission holds and those that don't has never been wider.
 
Kevza said:
Its amazing watching Gordon. Hes so relaxed and calm, like hes almost half sleeping, yet hes still killing these guys, and this ADCC he had a messed up hand as well in a bike accident.
So with one hand basically, he still easily beats everyone. Its insane.
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That's what strikes me the most as well. So confident in his approach.

I still remember being blown away by how calm he was in his finals match last ADCC against Keenan. Snatched the front headlock, rolled back and finished the mounted arm in guillotine so nonchalantly. It looked like he was drilling a technique on an unresisting partner.
 
asian-glow said:
That's what strikes me the most as well. So confident in his approach.

I still remember being blown away by how calm he was in his finals match last ADCC against Keenan. Snatched the front headlock, rolled back and finished the mounted arm in guillotine so nonchalantly. It looked like he was drilling a technique on an unresisting partner.
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Yeah the guys that look like they might as well be making a cup of coffee when they're rolling always freak me out the most. It's that Fedor face stoic thing.

And on your specific example I seem to remember him rolling for several guillotines on Keenan before finally getting the one that finished. I'm the total opposite and would have gotten so frustrated if one of my best moves failed multiple times. I mean I'm not a professional so I'm not holding myself to that standard. But I think it's cool how some people in high pressure situations can use failed techniques as confidence boosters to try them again instead of feeling defeated that they didn't work the first time.
 
Kevza said:
Im amazed at people like you who say stuff like this.
'Basic submission defence' would win you ADCC as long as you can wrestle?
And expecting a 'mediocre' wrestler to defend Galvaos TDs ? LOL
I guess you have no clue about levels in grappling. One of the most ignorant statements ive read for a long time.
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...I mean, didn't they basically describe Nicky Rod? Who medaled?
 
mataleaos said:
Yeah the guys that look like they might as well be making a cup of coffee when they're rolling always freak me out the most. It's that Fedor face stoic thing.

And on your specific example I seem to remember him rolling for several guillotines on Keenan before finally getting the one that finished. I'm the total opposite and would have gotten so frustrated if one of my best moves failed multiple times. I mean I'm not a professional so I'm not holding myself to that standard. But I think it's cool how some people in high pressure situations can use failed techniques as confidence boosters to try them again instead of feeling defeated that they didn't work the first time.
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I am a always amazed by what I dont know and what I think I know that's wrong.

Thanks for correcting me.
 
DatCutman said:
Sure, but let's not pretend he won any matches because he was some submission wizard.
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Keenans opinion from the podcast is that he doesn't understand jiu jitsu but is good at putting the hooks in an rear naked choking people.
 
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