ADCC 2019

[yetanother]

ADCC scoring.

ADCC scoring is in large part silly.
Not counting sweep and takedowns to turtle sucks.

 

[Solidus Snake]

Heel hook are tricky in gi just because shit gets caught up in the fabric. Little bit more of an injury risk but meh fuck it. I'd love a gi tournament with a no fucks given rule set.

Slamming, reaping, ADCC scoring, all the good shit.

With all the leglocks fever of the last years I'm actually surprised nobody did a good gi, paid tournament anything goes yet. I bet you'd have not only gi guys but also nogi specialists putting on the kimono just for this, would make for an entertaining bit.

 

[yetanother]

With all the leglocks fever of the last years I'm actually surprised nobody did a good gi, paid tournament anything goes yet. I bet you'd have not only gi guys but also nogi specialists putting on the kimono just for this, would make for an entertaining bit.

A factor in that is that preparation for that would be one off.
The prizes would have to justify working on heel hooks in the gi which is a useless skill besides that one tournament.

 

[Bubblun]

You didn't ask me but Tonon is so much more explosive and athletic? Did you see his match with Canuto? The highlights are here. https://tinyurl.com/yxjlbxnr Gordon isn't to move like that. Keenan Cornelius live commentated ADCC on day 2 and said Gordon is one of the slowest grapplers he's ever rolled with but that he can't do anything to him.

The analogies to Roger and Gordon are the fact that they're both really big guys that aren't psrticularly athletic and they sort of slowly and systematically dismantle people in a way where everyone knows what they're going to do and yet can't stop them from doing it. With Roger it was the cross choke from mount and with Gordon it's the rear naked choke from the back.

Is it possible to hear Keenan commentating the last ADCC somewhere?
I am really curious.

 

[mataleaos]

Is it possible to hear Keenan commentating the last ADCC somewhere?
I am really curious.

It was on Instagram Live which I think is only up for 24 hours

Another interesting thing he said is that going against Gordon is like going against 2 people. He said that Gordon doesn't really come up with techniques and that he is basically Danaher's avatar and that rolling with him is like rolling with Danaher's mind through Gordon's body.

 

[Bubblun]

It was on Instagram Live which I think is only up for 24 hours

Another interesting thing he said is that going against Gordon is like going against 2 people. He said that Gordon doesn't really come up with techniques and that he is basically Danaher's avatar and that rolling with him is like rolling with Danaher's mind through Gordon's body.

Thanks man, those are fun anecdote.
If you have more keep them coming.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

ADCC scoring is in large part silly.
Not counting sweep and takedowns to turtle sucks.

All major BJJ tournaments are like that. While Turtle technically counts a as a guard sweeps to there or initiated from turtle don't count.

Turtle has probably the weirdest rules tied to it. Especially in IBJJF

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

With all the leglocks fever of the last years I'm actually surprised nobody did a good gi, paid tournament anything goes yet. I bet you'd have not only gi guys but also nogi specialists putting on the kimono just for this, would make for an entertaining bit.

100% it seems like it would be a no brainier.

 

[yetanother]

All major BJJ tournaments are like that. While Turtle technically counts a as a guard sweeps to there or initiated from turtle don't count.

Turtle has probably the weirdest rules tied to it. Especially in IBJJF

Sweeps and takedowns to turtle count in IBJJF.
In is not a guard under IBJJF rules. You can't sweep from turtle or pass turtle.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Sweeps and takedowns to turtle count in IBJJF.
In is not a guard under IBJJF rules. You can't sweep from turtle or pass turtle.

Tds to turtle don't count until you break them down or clear the back, I can't quite remember which. I just know you don't get shit for front headlock or if they hold onto a single.

I have had refs not give me my sweep points because I ended up in top side turtle. Had to transition to somewhere else before I got my 2.

I am pretty sure there are a few exceptions to passing turtle. I'll look up one of the IBJJF rules videos later.

 

[yetanother]

Tds to turtle don't count until you break them down or clear the back, I can't quite remember which. I just know you don't get shit for front headlock or if they hold onto a single.

I have had refs not give me my sweep points because I ended up in top side turtle. Had to transition to somewhere else before I got my 2.

I am pretty sure there are a few exceptions to passing turtle. I'll look up one of the IBJJF rules videos later.

You have to get behind them in turtle and keep them down on a knee to get takedown points.
It's still a lot easier to do ADCC where you can turtle to avoid sweep and takedown points which reduces the amount of points a lot.
Not sure why they do it just seems a historical oddity.

 

[FELLA]

My point is, surely being a high level wrestler with basic submission defence could be enough to win ADCC?
Take down, side control, pin, switch to other side, repeat ....
Galvoa won the super fight based on takedowns, which in my opinion they were not very technical.
I would expect a mediocre wrestler to defend what he did.

 

[Quebec Nick]

My point is, surely being a high level wrestler with basic submission defence could be enough to win ADCC?
Take down, side control, pin, switch to other side, repeat ....
Galvoa won the super fight based on takedowns, which in my opinion they were not very technical.
I would expect a mediocre wrestler to defend what he did.

You're underestimating the level of those guys guards.

In the first 5 minutes you can pull guard, basically sit and wait if you want to, if the other guy doesn't engage he gets penalities.

Also, getting clean to side control after a takedown against a good BJJ guy is pretty rare, getting somekind of halfguard is very common.

So any wrestler isn't on par in subdefense and guard passing would pretty much get heel hooked or back taken pretty quickly

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

You have to get behind them in turtle and keep them down on a knee to get takedown points.
It's still a lot easier to do ADCC where you can turtle to avoid sweep and takedown points which reduces the amount of points a lot.
Not sure why they do it just seems a historical oddity.

Ooooh ok, tank you for clearing that up!

And yeah I agree. I don't really follow the logic of it either. Hopefully they update the rules one day.

 

[mataleaos]

My point is, surely being a high level wrestler with basic submission defence could be enough to win ADCC?
Take down, side control, pin, switch to other side, repeat ....
Galvoa won the super fight based on takedowns, which in my opinion they were not very technical.
I would expect a mediocre wrestler to defend what he did.

It’s hard to convey how good a lot of these guards are. They would have to get through three matches of their opponent being able to pull guard in the first half without receiving any negative points.

Yes they do have ridiculously strong bases but a lot of sweeps now are coming off of leg entanglements and heel hook threats instead of more traditional half guard/under hook/single leg type sweeps.

Also it’s very difficult to land a takedown past the guard. In ADCC sweeps and takedowns that land you past the guard are worth 4 points. I’ve been watching ADCC since 2005 and I’ve seen that happen less than 3 times.

And BJJ players/submission grapplers may not have as good control from the front headlock as wrestlers but after a sweep from guard during a scramble if the wrestler is trying to get back up, today’s grapplers are amazing at controlling the front headlock enough to either get a submission (guillotine, darce, etc) or especially taking the back from there.

The level in modern day submission grappling is insanely high and only getting higher. Even way back in 2009 Ben Askren got Leg locked in a guy’s guard in about a minute at ADCC by a guy not even known for them.

I do think the finals rules favor the high level wrestlers more due to the guard pulling negative point. But 3 matches leading up to that is tough.

 

[asian-glow]

Clutch commentary from mataleaos. Very insightful reads.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It’s hard to convey how good a lot of these guards are. They would have to get through three matches of their opponent being able to pull guard in the first half without receiving any negative points.

Yes they do have ridiculously strong bases but a lot of sweeps now are coming off of leg entanglements and heel hook threats instead of more traditional half guard/under hook/single leg type sweeps.

Also it’s very difficult to land a takedown past the guard. In ADCC sweeps and takedowns that land you past the guard are worth 4 points. I’ve been watching ADCC since 2005 and I’ve seen that happen less than 3 times.

And BJJ players/submission grapplers may not have as good control from the front headlock as wrestlers but after a sweep from guard during a scramble if the wrestler is trying to get back up, today’s grapplers are amazing at controlling the front headlock enough to either get a submission (guillotine, darce, etc) or especially taking the back from there.

The level in modern day submission grappling is insanely high and only getting higher. Even way back in 2009 Ben Askren got Leg locked in a guy’s guard in about a minute at ADCC by a guy not even known for them.

I do think the finals rules favor the high level wrestlers more due to the guard pulling negative point. But 3 matches leading up to that is tough.

I believe big boys can do it, Orlando SancheZ and Nicky rod are proof to that... small boys not so much, and a critical mass guy can. Certainly have an easier time on big guys than big guys have on other big guys... lach again is a testimony of that..

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Am I correct that spinal submissions, e.g. neck cranks and twisters are not allowed under ADCC rules?
I'd like to see Gordon go up against a high level Luta Livre guy.
They've been training for decades without Gi and have always used leg locks.
Secondly what would stop a high level D1 wrestler from competing, getting takedowns then standing back up? Basically winning by takedown points alone.

Luta livrw guys have always been part of adcc... cacareo being the most successful of them... last adcc biggest luta livre representative was chocolate, didn’t fair so well.. reality is now, bjj players are leaps and bound ahead of them in terms of subgrappling, the pool talent is way way bigger, and the focus on the guard has made bjj players the best leglockers of all grappling sports, and it doesn’t matter whether luta livre guys are allow to do hh from white, because what’s the most important thing is the entry, and There is where the guard focus shines, bjj guys are way better are attacking the legs from guard.

 

[randomg1t]

ADCC scoring is in large part silly.
Not counting sweep and takedowns to turtle sucks.

agreed, but i'm more bothered by the negative points for guard pulling, to be honest. and to be fair, IBJJF rules are also silly.

i'd much prefer a ruleset where position was awarded, not how you got there. side control is 2 points, mount is 3 points, back is 3 points. no points for sweeping into guard. no points for takedowns into guard. points for reversing someone. while i'm at it, allow all leg locks. no points in the first half of the match, if it goes the distance with a tied score, three judges decide who won based on who pursued the finish more aggressively.

when i become a billionaire, the randomg1t world championship will be hosted every 2 years, with gi and nogi alternating like the summer and winter olympics, and it will be the most prestigious tournament anyone has ever organised.

 

[yetanother]

i'd much prefer a ruleset where position was awarded, not how you got there. side control is 2 points, mount is 3 points, back is 3 points. no points for sweeping into guard. no points for takedowns into guard. points for reversing someone

Without point incentives to stay on top passing people a lot of the time flop over.
Ref decisions are pure bullshit.